Zone1 Despite the Democrats' Latest attempt, Men cannot get pregnant.

[hadit]

So to be clear you want politics to influence science. I'm glad you at least admitted it.

What's to admit? I've always held that position.

 

[Curried Goats]

What's to admit? I've always held that position.

Good for you.

 

[hadit]

Good for you.

Yes, it is. I am being consistent in saying that biology determines if a person is a man or a woman, not politics. Likewise, biology dictates that an unborn baby is human, not politics, and on it goes.

 

[ClaireH]

I do.

Actually, you do not and you are posting misinformation, not the first time for you.

Which states are you talking about that require one year of counseling prior to consideration of gender surgery?

Both the states of Washington and California, under liberal leadership, are allowing teenagers to have bottom surgeries without parental permission. California has made a law by Newsom allowing teenagers from any other state to go to California and have a transgender surgery without parental permission. This is absolutely crossing the line for states rights. It’s one thing to be a governor of a state and if you have a majority of voters backing you to make a law for minors within that state, but this oversteps his authority.

I cannot imagine that the Republicans and conservatives living in California are OK with this law. Legalizing a life-altering decision for teenagers is bad enough, adding in the without parental consent and then encouraging teenagers to go to CA for the procedure state from other states? No.

BREAKING: Newsom signs bill to allow minors from other states to receive medical gender transitions without parental consent | Winter Watch

PM. | Sept. 30,2022 On Thursday, California Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law a piece of legislation that will designate the state as a sanctuary for children and teens seeking medicalized gender transitions. Newsom’s signature on the bill, SB 107, comes nearly a month after the California...

www.winterwatch.net

Voters need to contact their state representatives immediately over this horrendous law. If California voters want to go full on leftist by all means do it, but keep the other states’ minors out of it with selective life changing procedures that cannot be undone.

You’re also wrong to say that the hormonal treatment doesn’t produce unchangeable results. It absolutely does. There is evidence from those who decided it was a huge mistake following their surgery and one female will always have a male voice now.

What else can minors do in California without parental permission; can they go to an R-rated movie at 13 without having to sneak in? Can a teenager have a foot removed without parental permission? Why isn’t this being pushed with the AMA within liberal California yet? Why not say that all teenagers can decide if they want go to school or not and they can make that decision at 13-as a teenager. This will not end well for teenagers regarding developmental growth. Teenagers are incapable of making fully logical decisions until around the age of 23 when the brainstem connects fully with a frontal lobe. Studies have proved this over and over regarding stages of brain development.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes, it is. I am being consistent in saying that biology determines if a person is a man or a woman, not politics.

No you aren't. Do you want me to quote for you again where you said you want politics, rather than biology to influence science? I can.

Likewise, biology dictates that an unborn baby is human, not politics, and on it goes.

Depends on what point we are in the developmental stage. Embryos and fetuses aren't babies.

 

[hadit]

No you aren't. Do you want me to quote for you again where you said you want politics, rather than biology to influence science? I can.

Depends on what point we are in the developmental stage. Embryos and fetuses aren't babies.

Sure, I'd like to see that quote. I may have changed my mind about something. And unborn babies are humans at an early stage of development.

 

[Curried Goats]

Actually, you do not and you are posting misinformation, not the first time for you.

Which states are you talking about that require one year of counseling prior to consideration of gender surgery?

Both the states of Washington and California, under liberal leadership, are allowing teenagers to have bottom surgeries without parental permission. California has made a law by Newsom allowing teenagers from any other state to go to California and have a transgender surgery without parental permission. This is absolutely crossing the line for states rights. It’s one thing to be a governor of a state and if you have a majority of voters backing you to make a law for minors within that state, but this oversteps his authority.

I cannot imagine that the Republicans and conservatives living in California are OK with this law. Legalizing a life-altering decision for teenagers is bad enough, adding in the without parental consent and then encouraging teenagers to go to CA for the procedure state from other states? No.

BREAKING: Newsom signs bill to allow minors from other states to receive medical gender transitions without parental consent | Winter Watch

PM. | Sept. 30,2022 On Thursday, California Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law a piece of legislation that will designate the state as a sanctuary for children and teens seeking medicalized gender transitions. Newsom’s signature on the bill, SB 107, comes nearly a month after the California...

www.winterwatch.net

Voters need to contact their state representatives immediately over this horrendous law. If California voters want to go full on leftist by all means do it, but keep the other states’ minors out of it with selective life changing procedures that cannot be undone.

What the law allows and what the physicians doing the surgery require before they are comfortable performing such procedures require are two different things.

You’re also wrong to say that the hormonal treatment doesn’t produce unchangeable results. It absolutely does. There is evidence from those who decided it was a huge mistake following their surgery and one female will always have a male voice now.

What's a male voice?

What else can minors do in California without parental permission; can they go to an R-rated movie at 13 without having to sneak in? Can a teenager have a foot removed without parental permission?

They can do all of those with parental permission. And the earliest recommendation for top surgery is 16 not 13. There's a giant difference between those ages. At 16 I owned a car and had a full time job.

Why isn’t this being pushed with the AMA within liberal California yet?

Because they're responsible medical professionals.

Why not say that all teenagers can decide if they want go to school or not and they can make that decision at 13-as a teenager.

Red Herrings aren't rational retorts. Try discussing the topic at hand.

This will not end well for teenagers regarding developmental growth. Teenagers are in capable of making fully aware decisions until around the age of 23 when the brainstem connects fully with a frontal lobe. Studies have proved this over and over regarding stages of brain development.

The research actually shows the earlier trans teens get on hormone therapy the better puberty exacerbates the disassociation they have between their identities and their bodies.

 

[Curried Goats]

Sure, I'd like to see that quote. I may have changed my mind about something. And unborn babies are humans at an early stage of development.

No problem.

So to be clear you want politics to influence science. I'm glad you at least admitted it.

And your response....

What's to admit? I've always held that position.

 

[martybegan]

1. I am smart.

2. You're the one who tried (and failed) to effectively identify argumentative fallacies. It's not my fault you don't have a firm grasp on them.

3. Chemistry is one aspect of physics and biology (the study of living organisms) is made possible by chemical reactions.

Not really, you are smug and full of yourself, suffering from the delusion of inflated intelligence.

The rest is you trying to use long sentences and references to appear smart. It's a typical tactic of those playing the game out of their level.

 

[ClaireH]

What the law allows and what the physicians doing the surgery require before they are comfortable performing such procedures require are two different things.

What's a male voice?

They can do all of those with parental permission. And the earliest recommendation for top surgery is 16 not 13. There's a giant difference between those ages. At 16 I owned a car and had a full time job.

Because they're responsible medical professionals.

Red Herrings aren't rational retorts. Try discussing the topic at hand.

The research actually shows the earlier trans teens get on hormone therapy the better puberty exacerbates the disassociation they have between their identities and their bodies.

Real life tragedy that should have been avoided: “When Chloe was 12 years old, she decided she was transgender. At 13, she came out to her parents. That same year, she was put on puberty blockers and prescribed testosterone. At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy. Less than a year later, she realized she’d made a mistake — all by the time she was 16 years old.”

‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

A look at the alarming rise of teens who are changing genders and then “detransitioning” back.

nypost.com

There are many other real-life examples, I just happened to find this one linked first. Google -teenagers regretting transition surgery- see what you come up with on your own.

Hormonal treatment for a transitioning female to male thickens vocal cords thereby making the voice much deeper in pitch. One young female mentioned regretting her surgery and regretting that she would always have “a male voice”. While listening to her she sounded like a male. The phrase “male voice” has been used in court of law testimony many times over, no need to play ignorant.

It is a naïve statement to suggest that
all medical professionals are ethical in their decision making process. “Responsible medical professionals” do not disregard parental concerns about elective life-changing procedures on minors, especially when so many regret the decision following the procedure. These individuals are forming support groups because they have no support from the LBQT community. Doesn’t sound like total acceptance is truly their message when they offer no support for people who regret transitioning. Those who regret having the surgery are shunned by LBTQ community because it does not support their messaging.

 

[Curried Goats]

Real life tragedy that should have been avoided: “When Chloe was 12 years old, she decided she was transgender. At 13, she came out to her parents. That same year, she was put on puberty blockers and prescribed testosterone. At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy. Less than a year later, she realized she’d made a mistake — all by the time she was 16 years old.”

‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

A look at the alarming rise of teens who are changing genders and then “detransitioning” back.

nypost.com

There are many other real-life examples, I just happened to find this one linked first. Google -teenagers regretting transition surgery- see what you come up with on your own.

Hormonal treatment for a transitioning female to male thickens vocal cords thereby making the voice much deeper in pitch. One young female mentioned regretting her surgery and regretting that she would always have “a male voice”. While listening to her she sounded like a male. The phrase “male voice” has been used in court of law testimony many times over, no need to play ignorant.

It is a naïve statement to suggest that
all medical professionals are ethical in their decision making process. “Responsible medical professionals” do not disregard parental concerns about elective life-changing procedures on minors, especially when so many regret the decision following the procedure. These individuals are forming support groups because they have no support from the LBQT community. Doesn’t sound like total acceptance is truly their message when they offer no support for people who regret transitioning. Those who regret having the surgery are shunned by LBTQ community because it does not support their messaging.

I never suggested at all that one should assume every medical professional is ethical.

This is an excerpt from the article you linked to.

Experts worry that many young people seeking to transition are doing so without a proper mental-health evaluation. Among them is Dr. Erica Anderson, a clinical psychologist specializing in gender, sexuality and identity. A transgender woman herself, Anderson has helped hundreds of young people navigate the transition journey over the past 30 years. Anderson supports the methodical, milestone-filled process lasting anywhere from a few months to several years to undergo transition. Today, however, she’s worried that some young people are being medicalized without the proper restraint or oversight.

---

I agree with all of this. Responsible medical professionals have a duty to ensure that their patients are making informed decisions about transitioning and research using MRIs to confirm diagnosis can only improve the ability of physicians to make better decisions with regards to treatment for their patients. Nowhere at all in your article is any credence given to the notion that gender dysphoria isn't real or that transitioning can be helpful to many people.

 

[hadit]

No problem.

And your response....

Yup, I read that wrong. I'll own that one, it was certainly a mistake because I think the opposite, but I said it.

 

[ClaireH]

I never suggested at all that one should assume every medical professional is ethical.

This is an excerpt from the article you linked to.

Experts worry that many young people seeking to transition are doing so without a proper mental-health evaluation. Among them is Dr. Erica Anderson, a clinical psychologist specializing in gender, sexuality and identity. A transgender woman herself, Anderson has helped hundreds of young people navigate the transition journey over the past 30 years. Anderson supports the methodical, milestone-filled process lasting anywhere from a few months to several years to undergo transition. Today, however, she’s worried that some young people are being medicalized without the proper restraint or oversight.

---

I agree with all of this. Responsible medical professionals have a duty to ensure that their patients are making informed decisions about transitioning and research using MRIs to confirm diagnosis can only improve the ability of physicians to make better decisions with regards to treatment for their patients. Nowhere at all in your article is any credence given to the notion that gender dysphoria isn't real or that transitioning can be helpful to many people.

Life altering medical decisions that are elective should occur after a person has the capacity to make this decision. As I’ve stated, around the age of 23 most adults reach this capacity.

You previously mentioned that you had a job and a car at 16. Everyone knows at least a few teenagers (reality shows the majority of US teenagers) who do not have control over their emotions, nor the intellectual foresight to plan out their whole lives. Many own cars and have jobs. Within context, your statement suggests you believe that owning a car and having a job proves something, what does it prove? Be specific.

The law of averages are against you, no matter how you rephrase my words.

 

[sartre play]

Dr. Bhavik Kumar made the remarks during a hearing on the Democrat-controlled Committee that was intended to push the narrative that restricting abortion access can harm women.

In response to a question from Rep. Andrew Clyde (R-GA), Kumar, medical director for primary and trans care at Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast claimed, “Men can have pregnancies, especially trans men.”

“Somebody with a uterus may have the capability of becoming pregnant, whether they’re a woman or a man,” Kumar claimed. “That doesn’t make a difference.”

Woke Planned Parenthood Doctor Claims ‘Men Can Have Pregnancies.’ GOP Congressman Levels Him. | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I'm gonna say it...

Men cannot get pregnant.

Does anyone disagree? If you agree, just await responses as I am.

Only you guys keep bringing it up? why is that?

 

[sartre play]

Why keep talking about something we all agree on?????

 

[BackAgain]

If a man will not allow a woman to put her penis into his vagina, then how will that man ever get pregnant (especially since he has no vagina and no uterus)?

Libs are funny.

 

[there4eyeM]

In fact, only a limited number of the females are fertile. It is somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen percent of the total population. If one can become pregnant, one is female. If someone who is a fertile female considers oneself a man, then we could say that people who think of themselves as male can get pregnant. That is about the limit.

 

[Curried Goats]

Life altering medical decisions that are elective should occur after a person has the capacity to make this decision. As I’ve stated, around the age of 23 most adults reach this capacity.

I acknowledge you've stated this. I agree with the first sentence I'm not quite convinced about the second. Though I will concede the issue involves a lot of complexity and there is no one size fits all answer. I found this study on the issue of decision making in children and adolescents interesting and I agree there needs to be rigious examination before any physician considers surgery for minors, with or without parental consent.

You previously mentioned that you had a job and a car at 16. Everyone knows at least a few teenagers (reality shows the majority of US teenagers) who do not have control over their emotions, nor the intellectual foresight to plan out their whole lives. Many own cars and have jobs. Within context, your statement suggests you believe that owning a car and having a job proves something, what does it prove? Be specific.

To be more specific in the largely west Indian community I grew up most young adults had jobs, not necessarily cars and were expected to be contributing financially to the household.

The law of averages are against you, no matter how you rephrase my words.

You haven't posted any data suggesting most people can't make rational decisions concerning their health until 23.

To conclude though it seems we both agree gender dysphoria is a real thing. That hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery can be helpful to some (not all) experiencing various levels of gender dysphoria and that before any long lasting changes are made there needs to be rigorous examination of the patients mental health to ensure as best as possible that they are making an informed decision. Is that fair?

 

[flacaltenn]

I never suggested at all that one should assume every medical professional is ethical.

This is an excerpt from the article you linked to.

Experts worry that many young people seeking to transition are doing so without a proper mental-health evaluation. Among them is Dr. Erica Anderson, a clinical psychologist specializing in gender, sexuality and identity. A transgender woman herself, Anderson has helped hundreds of young people navigate the transition journey over the past 30 years. Anderson supports the methodical, milestone-filled process lasting anywhere from a few months to several years to undergo transition. Today, however, she’s worried that some young people are being medicalized without the proper restraint or oversight.

---

I agree with all of this. Responsible medical professionals have a duty to ensure that their patients are making informed decisions about transitioning and research using MRIs to confirm diagnosis can only improve the ability of physicians to make better decisions with regards to treatment for their patients. Nowhere at all in your article is any credence given to the notion that gender dysphoria isn't real or that transitioning can be helpful to many people.

Trans doctor who helps teens transition says it’s now ‘gone too far’

A transgender psychologist fears many are making life-changing decisions because it’s “trendy” and pushed on social media.

nypost.com

If you read what she said -- ETHICS and responsibility change with the times. This lady is FAMOUS for sending hundreds of kids down a dangerous path and NOW SEES that her COLLEAGUES aren't CONSIDERING medicine at ALL in their decisions. So -- this is not an ethical situation. We are in a phase ABOHRENT behavior by A LARGE portion of the medical community involved in these counselings and surgeries and treatments. And even the famous doctor - says -- it's GONE TOO FAR...

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Only you guys keep bringing it up? why is that?

Because it keeps on being pushed for some odd reason. Why is that?