JoeB131
Diamond Member
I'm sure there are... but only one of them is enforced by 400 years of precedent.
Zone1 Designed for Inequality: The Real Problem Behind Property Tax-Funded Education
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I'm sure there are... but only one of them is enforced by 400 years of precedent.
400!?!? Wowza. That a lot of years!
Smart people have only had an advantage like the last ten years or so. Good point.
Most school programs are administered by local school boards so the programs vary greatly by jurisdiction.
The U.S. Supreme Court's landmark 1982 decision in Plyler v. Doe established that all children, regardless of their immigration status, have a constitutional right to a free public K-12 education. This ruling found that the potential savings from excluding undocumented children were far outweighed by the societal harms of creating a permanent underclass of uneducated individuals.
1) That ruling was before the Left incited tends of millions of ILLEGALS to invade the country - stop with the “undocumented” attempt - and their presence in such massive numbers are harming Americans in many levels. Regardless, we can solve the problem by deporting illegal alien parents, and they will take their illegal alien children with them.
2) So you want to keep taxpayers paying a fortune to educate illegals aliens, AND you want taxpayers to spend even more money to come up with “support” services you can’t even name?
3) Private industry doesn’t work like that. Employees don’t demand their directors give them X dollars for next year’s budget for…..well, whatever….without having to identify how they plan to spend the money.
Your argument is weak: “let’s just hand over even more federal dollars to school systems where poor parental behavior contributes massively to poor performing students, without any idea what programs are missing or how the money will be spent.”
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DGS49
Diamond Member
Under the U.S. Constitution, the Federal government has no role in education. Check Article I (Sn 8), which details the things that Congress can spend money on. Education ain't there. Nor is health care/insurance.
The unfortunate fact is that "poor" neighborhoods are generally neighborhoods where unsuccessful people live. They are unsuccessful generally because they have below average intelligence, poor work habits, make terrible decisions in their personal/financial lives, and have a culture which abhors academic success. You can throw as much money as you want at these neighborhood schools, but the results will always be discouraging.
But America is the "land of opportunity," right? And to facilitate that opportunity, society must create avenues to success for the students whose personal qualities make it possible for them to rise above their birth-status and achieve academic and ultimately financial success.
Most large school districts have programs for "gifted" students and charter schools which create that avenue, if allowed to function as intended. The "trouble" is that the best and brightest students in these schools tend to be Asian and White, which drives the SJW's crazy when they see the demographics of the gifted and charter programs. NYC, which has long had the best "avenues" for poor kids to succeed is being infected with DEI fever, demanding that slots in those schools and programs reflect the demographics of the overall community - thus essentially "dumbing them down."
Republicans' solution to the problem is VOUCHERS, by which parents of promising kids can at least have a chance to get them into better schools, at a cost that they can tolerate.
As for college, there are strategies to make those costs manageable. One that is never discussed is the Armed Forces, which provides not only a chance to gain a valuable skill (with practical application), but also opens up the financial support of the GI Bill after separating from the service. Community Colleges are also quite inexpensive, and in some states a four-year degree can be had through the CC system. Work-study options are out there if you look for them. You work for a company and they subsidize (or pay) the cost of college tuition, presumably at night.
There is no law that demands you get a college degree by age 21 or 22. Night school spreads out the cost of tuition and if you take enough credits you might even qualify for grants in tuition aid.
These strategies have been around for a long time. I used most of them myself, and in fact, being a Veteran made me eligible for grants that were free for the asking. I graduated from Law School with no debt.
Most 18's need guidance, and they have to have the maturity to listen to it when offered. Letting a kid immerse himself in debt for a degree in Anthropology is parental malpractice.
The unfortunate fact is that "poor" neighborhoods are generally neighborhoods where unsuccessful people live. They are unsuccessful generally because they have below average intelligence, poor work habits, make terrible decisions in their personal/financial lives, and have a culture which abhors academic success. You can throw as much money as you want at these neighborhood schools, but the results will always be discouraging.
But America is the "land of opportunity," right? And to facilitate that opportunity, society must create avenues to success for the students whose personal qualities make it possible for them to rise above their birth-status and achieve academic and ultimately financial success.
Most large school districts have programs for "gifted" students and charter schools which create that avenue, if allowed to function as intended. The "trouble" is that the best and brightest students in these schools tend to be Asian and White, which drives the SJW's crazy when they see the demographics of the gifted and charter programs. NYC, which has long had the best "avenues" for poor kids to succeed is being infected with DEI fever, demanding that slots in those schools and programs reflect the demographics of the overall community - thus essentially "dumbing them down."
Republicans' solution to the problem is VOUCHERS, by which parents of promising kids can at least have a chance to get them into better schools, at a cost that they can tolerate.
As for college, there are strategies to make those costs manageable. One that is never discussed is the Armed Forces, which provides not only a chance to gain a valuable skill (with practical application), but also opens up the financial support of the GI Bill after separating from the service. Community Colleges are also quite inexpensive, and in some states a four-year degree can be had through the CC system. Work-study options are out there if you look for them. You work for a company and they subsidize (or pay) the cost of college tuition, presumably at night.
There is no law that demands you get a college degree by age 21 or 22. Night school spreads out the cost of tuition and if you take enough credits you might even qualify for grants in tuition aid.
These strategies have been around for a long time. I used most of them myself, and in fact, being a Veteran made me eligible for grants that were free for the asking. I graduated from Law School with no debt.
Most 18's need guidance, and they have to have the maturity to listen to it when offered. Letting a kid immerse himself in debt for a degree in Anthropology is parental malpractice.
Or putting that knowledge on the internet for free or a nominal fee and provide testing for credits?
Why do you support holding knowledge hostage? Are you part of the establishment screwing poor people over and keeping them in poverty until they pay the ransom for knowledge?
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Actually, the only thing enticing them is that we've made most of their countries into dystopian hellscapes.
Works for me. Actually, if the rich paid their fair share, it wouldn't be a problem.
It'll be a great day when the Schools have all the money they need, and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.
Schools aren't private industry. Private industry can refuse to take customers who aren't profitable.
If you say so, I have not seen any numbers to back that up.
Never said I did.
My family got great support services from my state and county (which ones are none of your business). Services I know for a fact are not available in most other states.
I never had a problem with that idea.
You might be confusing me with someone else because none of that sounds like me.
It would have been better for this debate if you did not disclose that your family got support services not available in other states, and simply said “for example, some states offer x program and others do not.”
Then we could have discussed if these states are making up the difference with a related program, and if not, talk about how much additional money it would cost and how it would be paid for.
This is one of the biggest problems I have with leftists: they say we need such and such, and never consider how it will be paid for. We are ALREADY $37T in debt.
My preference would be to continue to deport illegals, and with the $160 billion we would save annually, allocate that money to specific programs that help our citizens, including at-risk youth.
I believe you claimed all services were available in all states but I disagreed.
A problem I have with conservatives is that they make meaningless statements like "taxes are too high" or the "debt is too big". The questions should be "are we spending too much the services we need" and "are we running up good debt or bad debt".
Fiscal vs. Economic Impact
| Category | Estimated Impact (Annual) |
| Gross Fiscal Cost (Public Services) | $150B - $182B (Expenditure) |
| Taxes Paid by Undocumented | $96.7B (Revenue) |
| Direct Cost of Deportation | $88B+ (New Outlay) |
| Projected GDP Loss | $110B - $170B (Loss) |
JoeB131
Diamond Member
My preference would be to cut off Israel and stop spending trillions playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East.
That's a lot more than 160 Billion.
What a lopsided chart. You’re omitting the $160 billion NET they cost us. Educating them, providing medical care, full welfare for anchor babies, and of course the suppression of wages, increased cost of rent, and decreased property values where they settle.
We could recapture the cost of deporting these undesirable foreigners in 6 months, and then after that - we will be way ahead of the game. In 5 years, we will have saved $1 trillion.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Actually, his chart did factor in public outlays.
The revenues they generate through their labor MORE than exceeds their cost.
No, the first row is Public Services. None of the others are true.
Not what the data say. Got other numbers?
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Our economy actually relies on a certain level of undocumented labor.
Five ways undocumented immigrants are powering the American economy
The majority of undocumented workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families.
1. Agriculture
Undocumented workers make up 25% of all farm workers in the US. The majority of these workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families.2. Building, grounds-keeping, and maintenance
Undocumented workers make up 19% of maintenance workers. These laborers tend to work on low wages for 12-hr shifts, often 7 days a week.3. Construction
17% of US construction workers are undocumented4. Food preparation & serving
12% of workers in this occupation are undocumented5. Taxes
Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive.Oh really?
- Millions of semi-literate illegal foreigners willing to work for cheap don’t lower the wages of the unskilled Americans? - - - And illegal alien families cramming into apartments don’t cause the rents to skyrocket? (There’s one near me, in an illegal alien area, where the 3- bedroom units are going for more than $4,000 a month.)
- And illegals descending on the local high school, with 80% getting free lunch, and the caliber of instruction goes down because they’re so behind has no bearing on the value of homes in that school’s district?
You liberals are DETERMINED to keep the illegals here, despite the massive costs to law-abiding Americans. Why are you so determined to bring our country down to a 3rd world status?
Illegals pay $31 billion in taxes. Americans pay $182 billion to support these foreigners. And that’s the DOLLARS alone. Impossible to quantify the cost they’ve brought to school caliber, rental increases, and decreased property values.
Everything I've read says the effects of illegal immigration is essentially a wash, they do as much good as harm. (Theoretically) Having someone cut my grass and clean my house, at an affordable rate increases my standard of living.
Much of the earnings of immigrants go back to their home countries. Essentially a form of foreign aid making those countries liveable.
FAIR is considered credible by some for its longevity, financial accountability, and access to policymakers, but is widely criticized and labeled an anti-immigrant hate group by civil rights organizations and policy analysts who cite its founder's history and its use of one-sided, biased data analysis.
It’s just seemed weird to me how you argued about the unfairness of those that have and those that don’t, but have no problem with higher education keeping knowledge from the poor.
If we truly valued knowledge we’d find a way to share it with everyone regardless of station or wealth.
But sure let’s argue about primary school funding like that’s a solution to the problem rather than a rallying cry for political parties. It won’t solve the problem but it will rally the voters. And that’s all that matters.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
If this is a problem, go after the people who hire illegals. Confiscate their businesses.
If 3 bedrooms are going for 4K where you are at, it's not the undocumented renting them.
Lisa lives in mortal fear we might treat a poor person with humanity and compassion.
Unless you are Native American, you came from somewhere, and someone else had the same opinion about you.
THose numbers are bullshit.
If you want to end illegal immigration, go after the white people who hire them.
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