CDZ Democrat Party and Taxation

[Desperado]

Democrats have never met a tax they did not like/ Unfortunately , they can't handle the money once they have it in their grubby little hands, Look at Calf and NY, 2 of the most heavily taxed and democratic controlled states in the country yet they are going broke and people are leaving there in droves

 

[Blues Man]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

yeah and all the debt that goes with it

This is all we got from the right wing, and without healthcare reform or raising the minimum wage.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

you do understand that every single president in our lifetimes including democrats have increased the debt don't you?

Clinton the democrat balanced the budget and could have started paying down the debt.

no he didn't pay down any debt.

The debt was higher after Clinton's 2 terms not lower

Presidents That Have Reduced The Federal Debt – Joseph Scott

blog.josephscott.org

I said he could have Started paying down the debt with massive federal budget surpluses instead of the reverse.

Could have would have should have don't mean shit never did never will

It was a Rational Choice under our form of Capitalism. Your guy does not have that luxury for the right wing.

Clinton never had massive surpluses and he never paid down any debt.

and now you are rationalizing that it's good not to pay down debt but you then criticize republicans for adding to the debt.

IOW you're just another partisan hack

and unlike you I don't blindly follow one party so i don't have a guy.

 

[danielpalos]

Democrats have never met a tax they did not like/ Unfortunately , they can't handle the money once they have it in their grubby little hands, Look at Calf ad NY, 2 of the most heavily taxed and democratic controlled states in the country yet they are going broke and people are leaving there in droves

You have an interesting point. I believe State government should task Academia with coming up with Pareto Optimal solutions to our economic problems instead of our legislators being so arbitrary and capricious with the Peoples' money.

 

[Donald H]

Taxes are wots gud.

 

[danielpalos]

Blue State infrastructure is not inexpensive.

Remember to check your PID clause and vote blue not red in tidal red States next election cycle.

 

[DustyInfinity]

the fantasy is; democrats are taxing everyone dry and republicans trying to cut taxes all around...
the reality is; the amount of tax collected yoy is in a linear trajectory with the gdp...
so they all tax more or less the same...

there are 2 key differences between democrats and republicans in the case of taxes;

1. who is paying the tax...
2. where the tax is being spent...

and these are pure political and ideological decisions based on priorities...

republicans tend to tax less on the wealthy, assuming they will somehow spend that money more wisely unlike the poor folks who just like to blow it on cheap walmart stuff...
and they double down on the wealthy by spending the taxes on projects that benefit wealthy corporations like in oil and military industries...

while republicans prioritize above a threshold, democrats do prioritize below a threshold...
and for the upcoming biden admin that threshold seems to be sitting somewhere around $400K...
so they will try to collect more of the tax from the folks above that threshold and spend it more in the interest of those folks below the threshold... in terms of healthcare and education...

from my perspective, one could argue both povs...

one could argue rich is rich because they know what to do with money, so we should leave more money in their hands, assuming they will make best out of it for all... meaning a trickle down...

and another could argue rich is rich mostly because they are lucky, so money mostly will trickle into a locked safe if it was allowed to trickle and rather good smart policies will make the most out it...

it would take some highly knowledgeable people debating these points for me or anyone else to come to any conclusions really...

I'm sorry, but this is just baloney. Trying to use taxes collected to say working people don't feel tax increases is absurd. Saying only the rich get tax cuts is patently dishonest, and when have the democrats reduced taxes for anyone? I will agree with you that I am keenly interested in how the taxes are spent.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

yeah and all the debt that goes with it

This is all we got from the right wing, and without healthcare reform or raising the minimum wage.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

you do understand that every single president in our lifetimes including democrats have increased the debt don't you?

Clinton the democrat balanced the budget and could have started paying down the debt.

Clinton never balanced the budget, Daniel! That's a liberal myth that people who never took Economics buy into! The debt increased every year of the Clinton Presidency.

No myth at all. Anyone who actually understands economics will tell you the same thing. The debt and the budget are distinct and not the same thing at all. And, Clinton increased the debt less than the republicans before and after.

I'm afraid that if the debt keeps increasing, you shouldn't really give yourself a high five. Saying it increased less is not exactly a win. I will give the republican congress some points for the balanced budget. Newt was an animal.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Democrats have never met a tax they did not like/ Unfortunately , they can't handle the money once they have it in their grubby little hands, Look at Calf ad NY, 2 of the most heavily taxed and democratic controlled states in the country yet they are going broke and people are leaving there in droves

You have an interesting point. I believe State government should task Academia with coming up with Pareto Optimal solutions to our economic problems instead of our legislators being so arbitrary and capricious with the Peoples' money.

Screw Academia, they will just rationalize the spending. The commen sense of a grade school child will tell you not to spend money you don't have.

 

[DustyInfinity]

The concept of 'FREE' money fits right in with this topic. In Canada we receive a lot more free money than Americans do and that's directly related to democracy and taxation. In America's case, more taxation by the Democratic party.

Taxation is good! That's a general principle that can't be argued. And when taxes are applied correctly and fairly to both the richest and the poorest, the later result is FREE money. Canadians can talk from experience, as we have the highest 'quality of life' in the entire world. This is due to equitable taxation of the people in good times so that the FREE money can flow back to the people in hard times.

And so why would any American talk in a derogatory way about taxation?

Isn't the real problem the lack of equitable taxation of the wealthiest? Can it be equitable when two of the top billionaires have the equivalent of half the country's poorest people?

The FREE money in that instance is the money the billionaires were permitted to earn without having to pay their bills to the people who earned it for them, and they also didn't pay the bill to the country that provided them the opportunity to earn their huge hordes of money.

Ask me how it works Americans. It's been kept a secret from the American people for far too long!

The wealthy get soaked like a garden hose, and half the country pays no income tax. It is rational to wonder how earned money is getting spent. As previous posts have stated, blue states harvest taxes in every way imaginable, and the schools and the roads are still terrible. That is why middle class people are leaving those states, which will create an interesting downward spiral of these tax heavy areas.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Reaganomics was right from the very beginning. Tax cuts have a beneficial effect on working people every time they are used. The same people who came up with 'trickle down economy' are the ones who say milk and math are racist. The media is arguing that the government squandering hard earned money is a great thing. The biggest lie is that tax cuts don't work, the second biggest lie is that only the rich benefit from them. More layers of government and less individual choices is very hard to defend. Again, huge government programs are possible, but most are just as atrocious as the ACA. Not only is it reasonable for conservatives to question how tax money is spent, but the exodus from poorly run blue states accentuates this point.

 

[Desperado]

Democrats have never met a tax they did not like/ Unfortunately , they can't handle the money once they have it in their grubby little hands, Look at Calf ad NY, 2 of the most heavily taxed and democratic controlled states in the country yet they are going broke and people are leaving there in droves

You have an interesting point. I believe State government should task Academia with coming up with Pareto Optimal solutions to our economic problems instead of our legislators being so arbitrary and capricious with the Peoples' money.

Screw Academia, they will just rationalize the spending. The commen sense of a grade school child will tell you not to spend money you don't have.

A perfect example is the fact that we borrow money so we can give it away to foreign countries

 

[alpine]

the fantasy is; democrats are taxing everyone dry and republicans trying to cut taxes all around...
the reality is; the amount of tax collected yoy is in a linear trajectory with the gdp...
so they all tax more or less the same...

there are 2 key differences between democrats and republicans in the case of taxes;

1. who is paying the tax...
2. where the tax is being spent...

and these are pure political and ideological decisions based on priorities...

republicans tend to tax less on the wealthy, assuming they will somehow spend that money more wisely unlike the poor folks who just like to blow it on cheap walmart stuff...
and they double down on the wealthy by spending the taxes on projects that benefit wealthy corporations like in oil and military industries...

while republicans prioritize above a threshold, democrats do prioritize below a threshold...
and for the upcoming biden admin that threshold seems to be sitting somewhere around $400K...
so they will try to collect more of the tax from the folks above that threshold and spend it more in the interest of those folks below the threshold... in terms of healthcare and education...

from my perspective, one could argue both povs...

one could argue rich is rich because they know what to do with money, so we should leave more money in their hands, assuming they will make best out of it for all... meaning a trickle down...

and another could argue rich is rich mostly because they are lucky, so money mostly will trickle into a locked safe if it was allowed to trickle and rather good smart policies will make the most out it...

it would take some highly knowledgeable people debating these points for me or anyone else to come to any conclusions really...

I'm sorry, but this is just baloney. Trying to use taxes collected to say working people don't feel tax increases is absurd. Saying only the rich get tax cuts is patently dishonest, and when have the democrats reduced taxes for anyone? I will agree with you that I am keenly interested in how the taxes are spent.

"Trying to use taxes collected to say working people don't feel tax increases is absurd"

never claimed such...
they sure do feel the taxes being increased, since the spending is increasing non stop...
however they dont feel the taxes being decreased...
because they simply dont...
and even if they do, it is temporary and reality of it does catch up at some point...

 

[Blues Man]

Reaganomics was right from the very beginning. Tax cuts have a beneficial effect on working people every time they are used. The same people who came up with 'trickle down economy' are the ones who say milk and math are racist. The media is arguing that the government squandering hard earned money is a great thing. The biggest lie is that tax cuts don't work, the second biggest lie is that only the rich benefit from them. More layers of government and less individual choices is very hard to defend. Again, huge government programs are possible, but most are just as atrocious as the ACA. Not only is it reasonable for conservatives to question how tax money is spent, but the exodus from poorly run blue states accentuates this point.

you don't know that St Ronnie passed the largest peace time tax increase in history do you?

 

[DGS49]

As George Will has wisely pointed out on various occasions, Americans want a big, generous Federal government that takes care of us from cradle to grave, but they want to pay taxes to support a small, prudent, limited government, like what is described in Article I of the Constitution. Putting it another way, they want Crown Royal on a 2-Buck Chuck budget. In Western Europe, parenthetically, everyone pays about half their income to the national government, in exchange for the "cradle to grave" benefits, which are largely real. Would working class Americans be willing to pay half their income to state & local government? Most of The Rich are already paying that much when you consider FIT, State and local income taxes, and real estate (school) taxes.

Democrats promote the myth that they can raise taxes on "everybody else," but "you" will get nothing but the benefits of those high taxes, without having to pay any more. This is encapsulated with vacuous slogans like, "Tax the RICH!" Unfortunately, there are not enough Rich people to pay for it all. President-elect Biden's myth that it can all be paid for by a tax increase on people making more than $400 thousand is directed at mid-2-digit IQ folks. It is preposterous, and provably false. (But I don't recall hearing anyone at CNN calling it a "lie").

 

[Thevolunteerwino]

The concept of 'FREE' money fits right in with this topic. In Canada we receive a lot more free money than Americans do and that's directly related to democracy and taxation. In America's case, more taxation by the Democratic party.

Taxation is good! That's a general principle that can't be argued. And when taxes are applied correctly and fairly to both the richest and the poorest, the later result is FREE money. Canadians can talk from experience, as we have the highest 'quality of life' in the entire world. This is due to equitable taxation of the people in good times so that the FREE money can flow back to the people in hard times.

And so why would any American talk in a derogatory way about taxation?

Isn't the real problem the lack of equitable taxation of the wealthiest? Can it be equitable when two of the top billionaires have the equivalent of half the country's poorest people?

The FREE money in that instance is the money the billionaires were permitted to earn without having to pay their bills to the people who earned it for them, and they also didn't pay the bill to the country that provided them the opportunity to earn their huge hordes of money.

Ask me how it works Americans. It's been kept a secret from the American people for far too long!

Tax all you want. Its not all distributes back to the people. Thats not true Irresponsible management and spending without cutting pork out of a budget will screw your equitable taxation every time. Then when you raise it. All that meams is more money for bad costly uneeded projects. If its not curbed it increases.

 

[danielpalos]

As George Will has wisely pointed out on various occasions, Americans want a big, generous Federal government that takes care of us from cradle to grave, but they want to pay taxes to support a small, prudent, limited government, like what is described in Article I of the Constitution. Putting it another way, they want Crown Royal on a 2-Buck Chuck budget. In Western Europe, parenthetically, everyone pays about half their income to the national government, in exchange for the "cradle to grave" benefits, which are largely real. Would working class Americans be willing to pay half their income to state & local government? Most of The Rich are already paying that much when you consider FIT, State and local income taxes, and real estate (school) taxes.

Democrats promote the myth that they can raise taxes on "everybody else," but "you" will get nothing but the benefits of those high taxes, without having to pay any more. This is encapsulated with vacuous slogans like, "Tax the RICH!" Unfortunately, there are not enough Rich people to pay for it all. President-elect Biden's myth that it can all be paid for by a tax increase on people making more than $400 thousand is directed at mid-2-digit IQ folks. It is preposterous, and provably false. (But I don't recall hearing anyone at CNN calling it a "lie").

Right wingers are worse. Only the Rich are capitally worth it under Capitalism according to them. The Poor really are capitally worthless according to the right wing, the Poor don't even deserve statutory minimum wage laws or individual welfare payments.

 

[Donald H]

The wealthy get soaked like a garden hose, and half the country pays no income tax.

Good grief dusty, you're terribly confused

As George Will has wisely pointed out on various occasions, Americans want a big, generous Federal government that takes care of us from cradle to grave, but they want to pay taxes to support a small, prudent, limited government, like what is described in Article I of the Constitution. Putting it another way, they want Crown Royal on a 2-Buck Chuck budget. In Western Europe, parenthetically, everyone pays about half their income to the national government, in exchange for the "cradle to grave" benefits, which are largely real. Would working class Americans be willing to pay half their income to state & local government? Most of The Rich are already paying that much when you consider FIT, State and local income taxes, and real estate (school) taxes.

Democrats promote the myth that they can raise taxes on "everybody else," but "you" will get nothing but the benefits of those high taxes, without having to pay any more. This is encapsulated with vacuous slogans like, "Tax the RICH!" Unfortunately, there are not enough Rich people to pay for it all. President-elect Biden's myth that it can all be paid for by a tax increase on people making more than $400 thousand is directed at mid-2-digit IQ folks. It is preposterous, and provably false. (But I don't recall hearing anyone at CNN calling it a "lie").

How is it provably false? The free market works as long as ways to defeat it are taken down.

And it's not an issue of 'only' taxing the wealthy.

Workers' unions are legitimate in the eyes of a capitalist but it takes an honest capitalist to find a union with real teeth as being legitimate.

 

[Oldestyle]

The concept of 'FREE' money fits right in with this topic. In Canada we receive a lot more free money than Americans do and that's directly related to democracy and taxation. In America's case, more taxation by the Democratic party.

Taxation is good! That's a general principle that can't be argued. And when taxes are applied correctly and fairly to both the richest and the poorest, the later result is FREE money. Canadians can talk from experience, as we have the highest 'quality of life' in the entire world. This is due to equitable taxation of the people in good times so that the FREE money can flow back to the people in hard times.

And so why would any American talk in a derogatory way about taxation?

Isn't the real problem the lack of equitable taxation of the wealthiest? Can it be equitable when two of the top billionaires have the equivalent of half the country's poorest people?

The FREE money in that instance is the money the billionaires were permitted to earn without having to pay their bills to the people who earned it for them, and they also didn't pay the bill to the country that provided them the opportunity to earn their huge hordes of money.

Ask me how it works Americans. It's been kept a secret from the American people for far too long!

The wealthy get soaked like a garden hose, and half the country pays no income tax. It is rational to wonder how earned money is getting spent. As previous posts have stated, blue states harvest taxes in every way imaginable, and the schools and the roads are still terrible. That is why middle class people are leaving those states, which will create an interesting downward spiral of these tax heavy areas.

People and more importantly BUSINESSES are leaving New York City and California like never before! Goldman Sachs is in the process of moving it's headquarters from New York City to Florida. It's a move that is estimated to cost NYC 8 billion dollars! That's just one company. Think of all the others that have already gone out of business or have already moved to a more business friendly State! Liberals are about to wake up to the realization that their policies have created economic "dead zones" throughout the nation and people are fleeing those areas in droves!

 

[Oldestyle]

Reaganomics was right from the very beginning. Tax cuts have a beneficial effect on working people every time they are used. The same people who came up with 'trickle down economy' are the ones who say milk and math are racist. The media is arguing that the government squandering hard earned money is a great thing. The biggest lie is that tax cuts don't work, the second biggest lie is that only the rich benefit from them. More layers of government and less individual choices is very hard to defend. Again, huge government programs are possible, but most are just as atrocious as the ACA. Not only is it reasonable for conservatives to question how tax money is spent, but the exodus from poorly run blue states accentuates this point.

you don't know that St Ronnie passed the largest peace time tax increase in history do you?

Do you know that Reagan passed that tax increase on the wealthy by closing loopholes and limiting deductions? It wasn't so much that Reagan increased taxes...what he did was make it harder for the wealthy to avoid paying taxes! That was after dropping the top rate from 70% to 28%! So basically, Reagan revamped the tax code. He gave the wealthy an incentive to invest while at the same time making it harder for them to get out of paying taxes.

 

[Blues Man]

Reaganomics was right from the very beginning. Tax cuts have a beneficial effect on working people every time they are used. The same people who came up with 'trickle down economy' are the ones who say milk and math are racist. The media is arguing that the government squandering hard earned money is a great thing. The biggest lie is that tax cuts don't work, the second biggest lie is that only the rich benefit from them. More layers of government and less individual choices is very hard to defend. Again, huge government programs are possible, but most are just as atrocious as the ACA. Not only is it reasonable for conservatives to question how tax money is spent, but the exodus from poorly run blue states accentuates this point.

you don't know that St Ronnie passed the largest peace time tax increase in history do you?

Do you know that Reagan passed that tax increase on the wealthy by closing loopholes and limiting deductions? It wasn't so much that Reagan increased taxes...what he did was make it harder for the wealthy to avoid paying taxes! That was after dropping the top rate from 70% to 28%! So basically, Reagan revamped the tax code. He gave the wealthy an incentive to invest while at the same time making it harder for them to get out of paying taxes.

the result was in increase in tax revenues that off set any tax cuts. He broadened the base.

REagan actually raised capital gains taxes

FLASHBACK: Reagan Raised Capital Gains Taxes To The Same Level As Wage Taxes For First Time

archive.thinkprogress.org