CDZ Democrat Party and Taxation

[DustyInfinity]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that? I have asked several times how that is supposed to work and the responses I have gotten are straw man, we aren't communists, we hate Trump, and Americans have too much money an if they have less it will some how improve the world. I am sincere in understanding how taking someone's money is 'good' for them. Pumping more money into the government would imply that the government would provide some service to make it a good idea. I'll use healthcare as an example. Premiums went up and services suffered. Does that help working people? Does that have to happen to help those who need help? What services do you want the government to provide, and why should working people support losing income for those services? Adding layers of management and government employees seems to invite high costs and poor services.

 

[DustyInfinity]

There is no "Democrat Party". Where'd you pick that up? As if I don't know....

How does the left's taxation benefit working people? I'll use California as an example. Their taxes are amongst the highest in the nation, and their schools are bad as well as the roads. Do any of the high tax states have a demonstrable example of how those taxes make life better for the people in those states? I'm don't see why people are so excited about the prospect of giving more income to the layers of bureaucracy. I don't see the benefit the people who live in California and New York get for living that way.

 

[DustyInfinity]

There is no "Democrat Party". Where'd you pick that up? As if I don't know....

How does the left's taxation benefit working people? I'll use California as an example. Their taxes are amongst the highest in the nation, and their schools are bad as well as the roads. Do any of the high tax states have a demonstrable example of how those taxes make life better for the people in those states? I'm don't see why people are so excited about the prospect of giving more income to the layers of bureaucracy. I don't see the benefit the people who live in California and New York get for living that way.

wwwwwhhhhoooooosssshhhhh

If I ask what you are talking about, would you then care to answer why people should be grateful the government is taking more of their money with no results? If it is some uniparty thing, people are still being sold that more taxation is a great thing. Why?

 

[Andylusion]

There is no "Democrat Party". Where'd you pick that up? As if I don't know....

How does the left's taxation benefit working people? I'll use California as an example. Their taxes are amongst the highest in the nation, and their schools are bad as well as the roads. Do any of the high tax states have a demonstrable example of how those taxes make life better for the people in those states? I'm don't see why people are so excited about the prospect of giving more income to the layers of bureaucracy. I don't see the benefit the people who live in California and New York get for living that way.

wwwwwhhhhoooooosssshhhhh

If I ask what you are talking about, would you then care to answer why people should be grateful the government is taking more of their money with no results? If it is some uniparty thing, people are still being sold that more taxation is a great thing. Why?

The problem is that in the short term there are results. Short term socialism is generally always fantastic.

Truly it is. In the short term, you get free this, free that, free everything else. It really is utopia.

The problem is, what happens when you run out of other people's money?

Left-wing ideology is completely based on mythology. The myth that "someone else will pay for it".

Typically, this is done by saying "Look at Jeff Bezo! He has $182 Billion dollars! Surely if we tax the rich, we can fund universal health care!"

And if you are a public school failure, you likely have no idea that that is net worth, not net cash, and you can't pay for health care with stock in a company, and even if you could, most can't do basic math to figure out $182 Billion, wouldn't pay for health care for more than a day.

People are amazingly ignorant of the history of the Roman empire. One of the primary reasons the Roman Republic devolved into a cruel dictatorship, was because they spent all their wealth, the nation was in debt, and in order to survive they had to confiscate the wealth of their own citizens, and they needed a strong man dictator to do that, and the people cheered him for slaughtering their own people and taking their stuff.

And we see that today. As much as the left screams about Trump being a dictator, Obama directly said he did not have constitutional authority to change immigration laws, and then did it anyway with DACA by executive order, and people cheered him for it.

You can see how dictatorship will arise in the US, and it will be the left-wing cheering it on.

As it relates to the topic at hand, everyone believes that someone else will foot the bill. Everyone believes that some other person will pay for free education, free health care, free housing, free food, free universal basic income.

When you ask, how will people be better off when government takes their stuff, to pay for it.... well they simply don't believe that, because they don't want to believe that. They don't believe that the lower class in denmark is paying 40% of their income in taxes, and another 20% national sales tax, so they can get free college, and so on.

They simply don't want to believe it. It's that simple. It's not a matter of facts or evidence, it's simply they want to believe the magic government fairy will grant their wishes, and they'll cheer on Caesar if he promises to give it to them.

If you doubt that, just look at Greece. Greece had a deal with the EU, to bail them out. Of course that required cuts to their spending. No one bails someone out, without requiring they make changes to how they live. Otherwise they'll just come back tomorrow asking for more bailouts.

A socialist party stepped up telling the Greek people that they would 'force' the EU to renegotiate their bailouts to not have the cuts. Now even the dumbest of fools outside Greece, could see that obviously you can't "force" someone to lend you money and demand that they have no requirements on the loan. That is ridiculous, but the Greek people overwhelmingly voted that idiot in.

They failed of course, and when the EU realized the Greek people were trying to demand they give them a loan, they cut the loan, Greek defaulted, and the new round of bailouts were even more restrictive than before. They were worse off.

That entire situation of mental disconnection from reality that happened in Greece.... is the entire Democrap party today. An entire party of pathetic children screaming "I WANT IT" at the top of their lungs, thinking that voting will change math and reality on a whim.

As a Christian, this whole thing reminds me of Pilot talking to Jesus. Jesus said "I came to witness to the truth"...and Pilot being a politician in the Roman government under a dictator, sarcastically responded back "What is 'truth'?"

That's the American public of today.

 

[danielpalos]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[sartre play]

Don't get hopes up for any drastic changes. New ideas will be necessary. Working people from low income to middle class( the people who keep everything running) have been paying for most every thing & gaining little. Time to work on some balance in how our tax dollars are spent. Neither party has been doing its job. just rehashing the same old stuff for too many years.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

How is it a false dichotomy when some states pay tremendous taxes for the same schools and roads? The status quo without increased pain to wage earners would be better wouldn't it? I'm still not seeing the services provided for the extra burden on working people. I'm not saying national programs are impossible in the US, though I would caution that a program that works in one country might not automatically be applicable to the US. Our attempt at heath care raised the price of healthcare. Trying to make college free would make people who don't attend college pay the burden of those who do. It doesn't have to be difficult. You don't have to speculate about 'pure' capitalism, or whatever form we have. I simply want to know if the service provided by increased taxes will help Americans or make their lives more difficult.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Don't get hopes up for any drastic changes. New ideas will be necessary. Working people from low income to middle class( the people who keep everything running) have been paying for most every thing & gaining little. Time to work on some balance in how our tax dollars are spent. Neither party has been doing its job. just rehashing the same old stuff for too many years.

Do you think it helped when their taxes were reduced and red tape was lifted? I know the debt spending was ridiculous, but that is always the case no matter what we do. If you don't think it was helpful, do you think it would hurt to raise their taxes by a large margin. I agree we need good ideas, and that we currently don't have them, but if we are to increase the tax burden, shouldn't their be some noticeable benefit other than becoming poorer? Thanks for responding. Merry Christmas

 

[Blues Man]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

 

[danielpalos]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

How is it a false dichotomy when some states pay tremendous taxes for the same schools and roads? The status quo without increased pain to wage earners would be better wouldn't it? I'm still not seeing the services provided for the extra burden on working people. I'm not saying national programs are impossible in the US, though I would caution that a program that works in one country might not automatically be applicable to the US. Our attempt at heath care raised the price of healthcare. Trying to make college free would make people who don't attend college pay the burden of those who do. It doesn't have to be difficult. You don't have to speculate about 'pure' capitalism, or whatever form we have. I simply want to know if the service provided by increased taxes will help Americans or make their lives more difficult.

The left is for increasing the minimum wage unlike the right wing who prefer no statutory minimum wages like in the good old days.

 

[danielpalos]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

 

[DustyInfinity]

There is no "Democrat Party". Where'd you pick that up? As if I don't know....

How does the left's taxation benefit working people? I'll use California as an example. Their taxes are amongst the highest in the nation, and their schools are bad as well as the roads. Do any of the high tax states have a demonstrable example of how those taxes make life better for the people in those states? I'm don't see why people are so excited about the prospect of giving more income to the layers of bureaucracy. I don't see the benefit the people who live in California and New York get for living that way.

wwwwwhhhhoooooosssshhhhh

If I ask what you are talking about, would you then care to answer why people should be grateful the government is taking more of their money with no results? If it is some uniparty thing, people are still being sold that more taxation is a great thing. Why?

The problem is that in the short term there are results. Short term socialism is generally always fantastic.

Truly it is. In the short term, you get free this, free that, free everything else. It really is utopia.

The problem is, what happens when you run out of other people's money?

Left-wing ideology is completely based on mythology. The myth that "someone else will pay for it".

Typically, this is done by saying "Look at Jeff Bezo! He has $182 Billion dollars! Surely if we tax the rich, we can fund universal health care!"

And if you are a public school failure, you likely have no idea that that is net worth, not net cash, and you can't pay for health care with stock in a company, and even if you could, most can't do basic math to figure out $182 Billion, wouldn't pay for health care for more than a day.

People are amazingly ignorant of the history of the Roman empire. One of the primary reasons the Roman Republic devolved into a cruel dictatorship, was because they spent all their wealth, the nation was in debt, and in order to survive they had to confiscate the wealth of their own citizens, and they needed a strong man dictator to do that, and the people cheered him for slaughtering their own people and taking their stuff.

And we see that today. As much as the left screams about Trump being a dictator, Obama directly said he did not have constitutional authority to change immigration laws, and then did it anyway with DACA by executive order, and people cheered him for it.

You can see how dictatorship will arise in the US, and it will be the left-wing cheering it on.

As it relates to the topic at hand, everyone believes that someone else will foot the bill. Everyone believes that some other person will pay for free education, free health care, free housing, free food, free universal basic income.

When you ask, how will people be better off when government takes their stuff, to pay for it.... well they simply don't believe that, because they don't want to believe that. They don't believe that the lower class in denmark is paying 40% of their income in taxes, and another 20% national sales tax, so they can get free college, and so on.

They simply don't want to believe it. It's that simple. It's not a matter of facts or evidence, it's simply they want to believe the magic government fairy will grant their wishes, and they'll cheer on Caesar if he promises to give it to them.

If you doubt that, just look at Greece. Greece had a deal with the EU, to bail them out. Of course that required cuts to their spending. No one bails someone out, without requiring they make changes to how they live. Otherwise they'll just come back tomorrow asking for more bailouts.

A socialist party stepped up telling the Greek people that they would 'force' the EU to renegotiate their bailouts to not have the cuts. Now even the dumbest of fools outside Greece, could see that obviously you can't "force" someone to lend you money and demand that they have no requirements on the loan. That is ridiculous, but the Greek people overwhelmingly voted that idiot in.

They failed of course, and when the EU realized the Greek people were trying to demand they give them a loan, they cut the loan, Greek defaulted, and the new round of bailouts were even more restrictive than before. They were worse off.

That entire situation of mental disconnection from reality that happened in Greece.... is the entire Democrap party today. An entire party of pathetic children screaming "I WANT IT" at the top of their lungs, thinking that voting will change math and reality on a whim.

As a Christian, this whole thing reminds me of Pilot talking to Jesus. Jesus said "I came to witness to the truth"...and Pilot being a politician in the Roman government under a dictator, sarcastically responded back "What is 'truth'?"

That's the American public of today.

I don't think it is simply about 'free stuff.' I believe they want a society where everybody has tremendous opportunities and options. The problem is that it makes everything more expensive and actually reduces the choices people have. I'd argue that it creates poverty and hardship. Again, I'm not saying huge national plans are impossible, but it grows layers of government, and makes people pay for things that have nothing to do with them. The right is criticized for not having solutions, and rightly so, but I do think they are correct in low government burden and personal choices. The government program would have to be impressive to make up for its costs. I don't think people are being critical enough of how our taxes are spent and the effect of such social engineering.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

I see the merrit in minimum wage increases. When Wal Mart increased its wages and forced all the fast food places to adjust, I saw it help a great many people. It was a myth that cheese burgers would cost 300$ and that there would be massive layoffs. The healthcare is a whole different animal. This isn't the ACA forum, but that thing was a disaster by most metrics. Biden says he wants to 'fix' it. Good Luck. It would seem the target for the ACA was the gap between those who could afford insurance and those who already got medicare and medicaid. Was relief to that target group worth the dramatic costs of the ACA. I would term that target group the 'working poor' and I know people who can't afford their blood pressure meds, but there must be a better way to address this group than what we ended up with.

 

[Blues Man]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

yeah and all the debt that goes with it

 

[Orangecat]

Regarding taxes, the democrat party is a one-horse-pony.

 

[task0778]

As much as anything else, taxation is a political football. The democrats want to raise taxes on the wealthy, thinking that'll get them more votes cuz then they'll have more revenue to spend on their social programs. But the problem is that they lie to us when they tell us how much more revenue the gov't will get; it's ALWAYS less than they say, and they do not consider the consequences of higher taxes on the rich. Which does happen.

And what has the increased spending got us for their social programs? Name any social program that the gov't pours money into, is it any better after decades of trying to improve the quality of American life? Okay, maybe a little better, but relative to the amount of spending then I'd say no. IOW, too much of our tax-dollars are misspent. It ends up in the wrong hands instead of helping those who need it most. Our gov't wastes too GD much money; maybe the cause is just but the management truly sucks. And partly that's due to the fact that too many politicians are more interested in taking credit for the spending and getting re-elected than in making sure the expenditures are honest, efficient, and effective.

 

[danielpalos]

Democrats seem excited about their opportunities to make things better. I hope they are right, but I do not understand how taking a sizable portion of workers money and offering less choices does that?

A false dichotomy. Right wingers have no better solutions at lower cost. This is all the right wing knows how to do while alleging they are for free market Capitalism:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office

Republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

Democrats are for healthcare reform and increasing the minimum wage.

yeah and all the debt that goes with it

This is all we got from the right wing, and without healthcare reform or raising the minimum wage.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[danielpalos]

Regarding taxes, the democrat party is a one-horse-pony.

The republicans are a one tick pony as well.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[danielpalos]

As much as anything else, taxation is a political football. The democrats want to raise taxes on the wealthy, thinking that'll get them more votes cuz then they'll have more revenue to spend on their social programs. But the problem is that they lie to us when they tell us how much more revenue the gov't will get; it's ALWAYS less than they say, and they do not consider the consequences of higher taxes on the rich. Which does happen.

And what has the increased spending got us for their social programs? Name any social program that the gov't pours money into, is it any better after decades of trying to improve the quality of American life? Okay, maybe a little better, but relative to the amount of spending then I'd say no. IOW, too much of our tax-dollars are misspent. It ends up in the wrong hands instead of helping those who need it most. Our gov't wastes too GD much money; maybe the cause is just but the management truly sucks. And partly that's due to the fact that too many politicians are more interested in taking credit for the spending and getting re-elected than in making sure the expenditures are honest, efficient, and effective.

Right wingers are still worse their extra-Constitutional warfare-State spending.

 

[Orangecat]

The republicans are a one tick pony as well.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

One tick pony? Did Biden fuck up again?