Zone1 Creepy things the (in)famous Luther said

[hadit]

My experience with the Holy Spirit, God in His entirety, is that He is infused in every aspect of everyday life. It is a matter of having Director, Co-worker, Teammate, Friend with me throughout the day, always remembering that while God is like all I mentioned to me, He is still the Supreme Being who holds the universe in the palm of His hand like we can hold a handful of pebbles. I see it as God working with and within me, with me in the way I work with a small animal who has only a bit of understanding of who I am and what I am about.

To my mind, there is nothing "legal" about any of this. In your mind, every step I take throughout the day must be all legalism. Quite different perspectives, I'm thinking.

See, when you attempt to speak for my understanding without making any effort to even know what that is, you weaken your position to the point of absurdity. Now, without attempting to imagine what I think, do you know what legalism really is?

 

[Meriweather]

What lower place? He is among the original apostles and a close disciple of Christ. There was no single leader of the Early Church, the disciples of Christ that were empowered by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost were all considered the head leaders.

And there is no "single" leader now. Non-Catholic Christians do not have a proper perspective of the Pope. They actually think he is personally infallible! Catholics (including the Pope himself), see him as the servant of the servants of God. Each Pastor leads his parish, yet parish Catholic ministries each have their own leader. It is a more a matter of each touching base with the pastor from time-to-time to make sure we are all on the same page. Likewise, Bishops touch base with Archbishops; Archbishops touch base with Cardinals; Cardinals touch base with the Pope, again with the purpose of the entire Church being united and working together as one.

Those two infallible teachings I spoke about? They both came up through the laity and laity ministries to the Pastor, to the Bishops to the Archbishops etc. Both infallible teachings took hundreds of years--centuries--before it reached a Pope to make these two teachings official Church dogma. In other words, the Pope didn't walk into his office one day with something he thought was a great ideal and announce a new dogma. The Church doesn't work from the top down. It works from all the laity up. We--the Body of Christ--are inspired with a great idea, which is studied carefully before it becomes a formal teaching for all the Church.

Non-Catholic Christians have this terrible habit of saying/describing the Catholic faith in ways that just aren't so. They make up a church no one would ever want to be a part of--and then say it is the Catholic Church. Not sure what their purpose is, but I wish it would cease. It helps no one--least of all non-Catholic Christians.

 

[Meriweather]

See, when you attempt to speak for my understanding without making any effort to even know what that is, you weaken your position to the point of absurdity. Now, without attempting to imagine what I think, do you know what legalism really is?

Shrug. You brought up legalism and applied it to me and the Catholic Church. I told you never heard of it and I had been in many Catholic Churches. As you are imagining what the Church teaches and what I practice, it is fair enough for me make the attempt to try to imagine what you might be thinking.

Tel me what legalism really is, and perhaps we can proceed from there.

 

[hadit]

Shrug. You brought up legalism and applied it to me and the Catholic Church. I told you never heard of it and I had been in many Catholic Churches. As you are imagining what the Church teaches and what I practice, it is fair enough for me make the attempt to try to imagine what you might be thinking.

Tel me what legalism really is, and perhaps we can proceed from there.

Legalism is attempting to justify ourselves to God by following rules and laws and doing works, when only, and I mean only, the blood of Christ can justify us to stand before Him. You might as well put everyone on the beach in California and announce that we're all going to swim to Hawaii. You'll have some people who wouldn't make it beyond the first point their feet stopped touching bottom, others would make it a few hundred yards, and a few would make it some miles into the ocean before they drowned, but no one would make it to Hawaii. Jesus, meanwhile, is standing on board a cruise ship, calling everyone who wanted to get on board and ride with Him to Hawaii.

The legalists stay in the water, attempting to make it on the strength of their good works and obedience to rules. They are unwilling to allow God to remake them.

 

[Meriweather]

Legalism is attempting to justify ourselves to God

Again, I have never heard of anyone attempting this. When no one is doing it, there is no reason to warn them against doing it.

Think about it. It would be easier to justify oneself to an ant or to the sun.

 

[bodecea]

Then why the angst when Martin Luther said that salvation comes only through faith? What more is needed?

Martin Luther is a prime example of why Jews (rightfully) do not trust Christians who say they support them. Fundies would turn on Jews in a heartbeat.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus, meanwhile, is standing on board a cruise ship, calling everyone who wanted to get on board and ride with Him to Hawaii.

Catholics--the ship's staff--are already on board busy with their assigned duties.

Seriously, it is like non-Catholic Christians are standing around waiting for Jesus to take them somewhere. As a Catholic, I am more of the mind we are already in God's Kingdom--Part 1--The Earth.

Catholic Catechism teaches we are here to know God, love God, and serve God, and to be happy with Him for all time. The Bible teaches us that we are here because mankind chose to know both good and evil.

It seems God agreed, but noted He would be within reach--and He helped us along with Ten things to watch out for--to do, or to avoid. After all, just because we want to know about both good and evil, it doesn't mean we want to do or become evil.

How I see this life is God here helping me and helping me in helping others. I am here getting to know God so I can love God and better serve Him. When one is already in the Kingdom Jesus told us was already in our reach, we don't have to wait around, and because it is in such easy reach just as Jesus said, there is no work needed to get in, just the Kingdom's work to do and enjoy.