Cognitive Dissonance

[ding]

My position on it has always been that abortion should be limited to a time frame of no more than 12-maybe 16 weeks or so unless there is a fatal abnormality in the fetus or the mother's life is in jeopardy.

This is an example of a rationalization. An arbitrary one at that. Textbook cognitive dissonance. Are you making excuses why abortion is ok in some instances? Is eating meat ok in some instances too? You are a walking and talking textbook example of cognitive dissonance.

 

[ding]

I just answered that

Actually you didn't. Your answer was conditional. Textbook relative morality. Textbook cognitive dissonance.

You can't bear to say that abortion is wrong but you support it anyway because you have cognitive dissonance. I can bear saying eating meat is wrong but I choose to do it anyway because I have no cognitive dissonance.

 

[ding]

See now you think you have some gotcha here

Absolutely. So does everyone else.

You are quick to call meat eaters shitty selfish people but abortionists get a hall pass from you. If that's not a gotcha I don't know what is.

 

[ding]

you have to find where I stated that I think abortion is wrong.

Can you do that? No you just stated that abortion is always wrong and attributed that sentiment to me.

Yes, I have stated eating meat is always wrong and abortion is always wrong. You have stated eating meat is always wrong and abortions are sometimes wrong. Textbook cognitive dissonance.

 

[jwoodie]

Cognitive dissonance is holding two beliefs that are knowingly contradictory. This can result in mental pain and destructive behavior if not resolved.

 

[ding]

If you want to discuss why I hold my position i will tell you but it won't be an excuse like saying "I'm weak and selfish:" it will be a reasoned position that I take full ownership of.

Not really. I'd rather just keep pointing out your cognitive dissonance on how you view life. So you won't tell women that you believe it's wrong for them to abort their babies but you will tell meat eaters it's wrong for them to eat meat?

 

[Foxfyre]

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

In a way cognitive dissonance is the opposite of intellectual honesty. So the cure for cognitive dissonance is to be intellectually honest.

Enjoying your eggs for breakfast does not mean you approve of the unethical treatment of animals. Nor does the duck a l'orange you have for dinner. Nor does that make you a hypocrite when you send your donations to the Animal Humane association or support the candidate who promotes laws for the ethical treatment of animals.

Re the corrupt politician, the intellectually honest will ask himself/herself, "Do I KNOW this person is guilty of crimes? Have I seen the evidence with my own eyes; heard it with my own ears? Or has he/she confessed to the crimes? Or has he/she been found guilty with due process in a properly conducted court of law by a jury of his/her peers?

Or do I believe he/she is guilty because I heard talking heads on television--people who hate the person--tell me he/she is guilty? Do I believe it because I dislike this person and want to believe it?

The intellectually honest will admit the truth once he/she arrives at it. The cognitively dissonant will not.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Enjoying your eggs for breakfast does not mean you approve of the unethical treatment of animals. Nor does the duck a l'orange you have for dinner

How can you say that with a straight face. This sentence is exactly an example of cognitive dissonance

 

[buttercup]

Enjoying your eggs for breakfast does not mean you approve of the unethical treatment of animals.

That's only true if one is completely unaware of what happened before those eggs got to their plate.

In case you didn't know this, it is standard practice in the egg industry to macerate (grind up alive) baby male chicks, en masse, because they are useless to the egg industry. They are literally treated like garbage, either macerated or suffocated.

Nearly 300 million baby male chicks are killed each year in the US alone. And that's just one thing about the egg industry, there are numerous other unethical practices that take place every day.

This is what happens:

Nor does the duck a l'orange you have for dinner. Nor does that make you a hypocrite when you send your donations to the Animal Humane association or support the candidate who promotes laws for the ethical treatment of animals.

Again, that's only if the person is blisfully unaware of what went on beforehand. Please watch this video:



Once you realize how horrible the animal industries are....and that exploitation, abuse, cruelty, and horrific unnatural conditions go hand in hand with commodifying animals..... then you will conclude that you can't eat animals or animal byproducts and still claim to be against unethical treatment of animals. Why, because once you are aware of what happens and continue to pay for it, you would be knowingly supporting something that goes against your professed values. (I'm not singling you out, this is a general 'you.')

 

[Unkotare]

That's only true if one is completely unaware of what happened before those eggs got to their plate.

In case you didn't know this, it is standard practice in the egg industry to macerate (grind up alive) baby male chicks, en masse, because they are useless to the egg industry. They are literally treated like garbage, either macerated or suffocated.

Nearly 300 million baby male chicks are killed each year in the US alone. And that's just one thing about the egg industry, there are numerous other unethical practices that take place every day.

This is what happens:


View attachment 838319




Again, that's only if the person is blisfully unaware of what went on beforehand. Please watch this video:



Once you realize how horrible the animal industries are....and that exploitation, abuse, cruelty, and horrific unnatural conditions go hand in hand with commodifying animals..... then you will conclude that you can't eat animals or animal byproducts and still claim to be against unethical treatment of animals. Why, because once you are aware of what happens and continue to pay for it, you would be knowingly supporting something that goes against your professed values. (I'm not singling you out, this is a general 'you.')

But I'll bet you are "pro-choice."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Here is probably all I'm gonna say about THIS topic in this thread.

The animals BELONG to God. He knows EACH ONE by name. This means they are HOLY.

God charged Man with "dominion" and "Stewardship" over HIS animals. What does that mean?

Parents have dominion and Stewardship over their children. Does that mean your children exist for you to abuse and exploit?

Many of you know better. But most just want what they want regardless what the consequences are. There is no love for God, or the Truth.

Most just love to argue and think they're scoring points. In the end all will be accountable to God. All will be judged.

Man is a mess. But God has hope for you that eventually you will come to repentance.

 

[buttercup]

But I'll bet you are "pro-choice."

Nope. I'm strongly pro-life. We've been over this before, you and I. Your memory must not be so good.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

But I'll bet you are "pro-choice."

You understand she's Christian right?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

My position on it has always been that abortion should be limited to a time frame of no more than 12-maybe 16 weeks or so unless there is a fatal abnormality in the fetus or the mother's life is in jeopardy.

Now YOU can disagree with my position but you will find no evidence that I ever said abortion at any time during pregnancy was wrong

If it's not "wrong" then why would you impose ANY restrictions? You're not honest here. I think everyone sees it but you

 

[Foxfyre]

How can you say that with a straight face. This sentence is exactly an example of cognitive dissonance

Sorry you feel that way. We raised chickens for years when I was growing up and believe me they were never mistreated. Nor would they have lived the well fed and pampered life they lived with us if it was not for the eggs they provided. They would follow us around, sit beside us when we were sunbathing in the yard, would eat out of our hands.

And I'm supposed to feel guilty for eating eggs?

 

[ding]

you defend your wrong actions

No. I don’t. You defend abortion.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's only true if one is completely unaware of what happened before those eggs got to their plate.

In case you didn't know this, it is standard practice in the egg industry to macerate (grind up alive) baby male chicks, en masse, because they are useless to the egg industry. They are literally treated like garbage, either macerated or suffocated.

Nearly 300 million baby male chicks are killed each year in the US alone. And that's just one thing about the egg industry, there are numerous other unethical practices that take place every day.

This is what happens:


View attachment 838319




Again, that's only if the person is blisfully unaware of what went on beforehand. Please watch this video:



Once you realize how horrible the animal industries are....and that exploitation, abuse, cruelty, and horrific unnatural conditions go hand in hand with commodifying animals..... then you will conclude that you can't eat animals or animal byproducts and still claim to be against unethical treatment of animals. Why, because once you are aware of what happens and continue to pay for it, you would be knowingly supporting something that goes against your professed values. (I'm not singling you out, this is a general 'you.')

I won't watch your video. Sorry. I like to sleep at night. I have been a volunteer for Animal Humane, been active in large animal abuse, and support and preach the ethical treatment of animals. I wouldn't do that if I wasn't aware of unethical many practices are. I am well aware of all the horror stories.

The cockerals on the farm that nobody wanted to buy, when they were old enough were killed quickly and humanely and became fryers or broilers along with the excess pullets. But when they lived, they lived as good a life as any chicken can expect to live.

And in town our chickens who supplied us with lots of fresh eggs lived very good lives, sitting with us in the yard, following us around, taking food from our hands. Lives they would not have had if they didn't provide those eggs.

I'm supposed to feel guilty because I enjoyed the eggs?

 

[buttercup]

I won't watch your video. Sorry. I like to sleep at night. I have been a volunteer for Animal Humane, been active in large animal abuse, and support and preach the ethical treatment of animals. I wouldn't do that if I wasn't aware of unethical many practices are. I am well aware of all the horror stories.

The cockerals on the farm that nobody wanted to buy, when they were old enough were killed quickly and humanely and became fryers or broilers along with the excess pullets. But when they lived, they lived as good a life as any chicken can expect to live.

And in town our chickens who supplied us with lots of fresh eggs lived very good lives, sitting with us in the yard, following us around, taking food from our hands. Lives they would not have had if they didn't provide those eggs.

I'm supposed to feel guilty because I enjoyed the eggs?

Even with "backyard chickens" there are a number of reasons to not eat eggs. I could list several reasons, but I don't want to take this thread even more off topic. I'm not saying you should feel guilty, because it's clear that you don't know why it would be wrong. Guilt would only come when someone KNOWS the reasons to not do it yet still does it.

And honestly, I don't want to be hard on you, so this is not against you.... but i'm actually laughing here because every single time the topic of eggs comes up in discussions like this, pretty much every one I've talked to has backyard eggs. I'm beginning to wonder, does anyone buy eggs at the grocery store? But again, like I said, even though backyard eggs are better than store-bought from an ethical standpoint, there are still reasons why it's problematic for anyone who cares about the ethical treatment of animals.

ETA: The reason I posted those videos was to show the reality. I totally understand not wanting to watch them.... but if you DO know what takes place in those industries, then I don't see how you could have said what you said in post #287, second paragraph.

 

[Blues Man]

This is an example of a rationalization. An arbitrary one at that. Textbook cognitive dissonance. Are you making excuses why abortion is ok in some instances? Is eating meat ok in some instances too? You are a walking and talking textbook example of cognitive dissonance.

No it's not

For one I can never have an abortion and two I never said killing a person was always wrong.

You want to try to pull some clever gotcha here but you really can't. I cornered you on your position on eating meat because it is your behavior that you said you knew was wrong.

I never said killing a person is always wrong nor did I ever say I would kill a person so you have nothing on me.

You want to hold me responsible for the morality of women who have abortions.

Unlike you I know I can only control my behavior and I have no obligation nor authority to force anyone else to change their behavior

 

[Blues Man]

Absolutely. So does everyone else.

You are quick to call meat eaters shitty selfish people but abortionists get a hall pass from you. If that's not a gotcha I don't know what is.

No I called YOU a shitty person not ALL meat eaters.

And I did so because you said you believed eating meat was wrong and you were making excuses as to why you would keep doing what you knew was wrong.

If you would have said that you do not think eating meat was wrong and you eat it because you like it there was no argument to be had

You just refused to admit that you are doing what you say you know and believe is wrong because you choose to.

That exhibits your subjective morals