You're all lost.

[Stryder50]

I believe that "truth" is in many ways, objective.

"The truth rises to the top" as some say."

So, I don't hold that either side of an issue holds the truth.

The "truth" doesn't care.

It's either embraced and appreciated, or it is suppressed and denied.

In the "HARD" sciences that is often the case.

I was referring to human affairs and society as I pointed out, and there is when things can be somewhat subjective, and often require compromise that may degrade an objective/absolute "truth".
...

Podkayne of Mars​

All page numbers from the mass market paperback edition published by Berkley Medallion Books, ISBN 0-425-03434-8, January 1970, 12th printing

• “So you say ‘Politics!’ as if it were a nasty word—and you think that settles it.”
  He sighed. “But you don’t understand. Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement. When politics is good, it’s wonderful…and when politics is bad—well, it’s still pretty good.”
  “I guess I don’t understand,” I said slowly.
  “Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done...without fighting. We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody’s head bashed in. That’s politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in...and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That’s why I say politics is good even when it is bad…because the only alternative is force—and somebody gets hurt.”
  • Chapter 4 (p. 33)

Robert A. Heinlein - Wikiquote

en.wikiquote.org

 

[Chuz Life]

In the "HARD" sciences that is often the case.

I was referring to human affairs and society as I pointed out, and there is when things can be somewhat subjective, and often require compromise that may degrade an objective/absolute "truth".
...

Podkayne of Mars​

All page numbers from the mass market paperback edition published by Berkley Medallion Books, ISBN 0-425-03434-8, January 1970, 12th printing

• “So you say ‘Politics!’ as if it were a nasty word—and you think that settles it.”
  He sighed. “But you don’t understand. Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement. When politics is good, it’s wonderful…and when politics is bad—well, it’s still pretty good.”
  “I guess I don’t understand,” I said slowly.
  “Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done...without fighting. We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody’s head bashed in. That’s politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in...and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That’s why I say politics is good even when it is bad…because the only alternative is force—and somebody gets hurt.”
  • Chapter 4 (p. 33)

Robert A. Heinlein - Wikiquote

en.wikiquote.org

The truth is the truth, though.

It is only the positioning of the political sides involved that should be subject to compromise.

Now, if you are equating "truth" with political "ideas" (competing perceptions?)

I see what you are getting at.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The Rs and Ds are antithetical to the constitution. They hate us and the constitution.

 

[Stryder50]

The truth is the truth, though.

It is only the positioning of the political sides involved that should be subject to compromise.

Now, if you are equating "truth" with political "ideas" (competing perceptions?)

I see what you are getting at.

In USA politics, the Left-wing, predominated by socialist-democrats, sees their Marxist ideological foundations and it's "wealth redistribution" agenda as a "Truth" of the human condition.

The Right-wing, nominal conservatives in support of free enterprise, capitalism, for profit commerce, and concepts of the Federalists and Constitution as agenda and objective see that as "Truth" of the human condition.

Consequently each side; Left ~ Right sees the others principles and values as False, not-Truth.

While both sides might agree on a scientific "truth" such as gravity, when it comes to economics and sociology and political systems their concepts of "Truth" tend to be polar opposites.

EDIT: Oh Yeah ....
Forgot the greatest example of all - Religion !

Jew ~ Christian ~ Islam ~ Hindu ~ Buddhist ~ Pagan(s) ~ Animist ~ Atheist ~ Etc. - Etc. - Etc. ...

Each think their theology and dogma is "The Truth", all others are "False" ...
Perhaps why most conflicts and wars in human history have been over religious differences ("truth").

 

[jc456]

In the "HARD" sciences that is often the case.

I was referring to human affairs and society as I pointed out, and there is when things can be somewhat subjective, and often require compromise that may degrade an objective/absolute "truth".
...

Podkayne of Mars​

All page numbers from the mass market paperback edition published by Berkley Medallion Books, ISBN 0-425-03434-8, January 1970, 12th printing

• “So you say ‘Politics!’ as if it were a nasty word—and you think that settles it.”
  He sighed. “But you don’t understand. Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement. When politics is good, it’s wonderful…and when politics is bad—well, it’s still pretty good.”
  “I guess I don’t understand,” I said slowly.
  “Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done...without fighting. We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody’s head bashed in. That’s politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in...and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That’s why I say politics is good even when it is bad…because the only alternative is force—and somebody gets hurt.”
  • Chapter 4 (p. 33)

Robert A. Heinlein - Wikiquote

en.wikiquote.org

Most normal societies lock up criminals, not the left. All you need to know

 

[Nobody911]

History repeats itself. Way too late. Way too late indeed. It's America's destiny!

Major General Smedley D. Butler came to loathe war after witnessing how U.S. military power was repeatedly used to advance corporate and imperial interests rather than genuine national defense. Key reasons:

- Personal experience: Butler served 33 years and fought in numerous interventions (Philippines, China, Central America, Caribbean). He saw firsthand the human cost, brutality, and routine use of force against impoverished peoples.

- Economic/political motives: He concluded many U.S. interventions served private business interests (corporations, plantation owners, rail and mining companies) and financial elites—what he later called a “racket.”

- Institutional corruption: Butler criticized how politicians, bankers, and arms suppliers profited from wars while soldiers and civilians paid the cost. He saw collusion between business and government driving interventions.

- Moral outrage: After retirement he grew convinced that the military was being used to suppress labor, protect investments, and secure markets, which he found unjust and dishonorable.

- Public denunciation: In speeches and his 1935 pamphlet War Is a Racket, Butler summarized these views, arguing veterans should reconceive patriotism as protecting the public from warmongering profiteers.

In short, Butler’s hatred of war grew from direct observation of its human toll and his belief that many conflicts were driven by private gain and political corruption rather than legitimate national defense.

 

[Chuz Life]

In USA politics, the Left-wing, predominated by socialist-democrats, sees their Marxist ideological foundations and it's "wealth redistribution" agenda as a "Truth" of the human condition.

Will any of them confirm that for us?

The Right-wing, nominal conservatives in support of free enterprise, capitalism, for profit commerce, and concepts of the Federalists and Constitution as agenda and objective see that as "Truth" of the human condition.

I'm conservative and I don't assign "Truth of the human condition" to policy ideas or even ideals like that.

Thats only an example of competing ideas. Ideals even.

Consequently each side; Left ~ Right sees the others principles and values as False, not-Truth.

While both sides might agree on a scientific "truth" such as gravity, when it comes to economics and sociology and political systems their concepts of "Truth" tend to be polar opposites.

EDIT: Oh Yeah ....
Forgot the greatest example of all - Religion !

Jew ~ Christian ~ Islam ~ Hindu ~ Buddhist ~ Pagan(s) ~ Animist ~ Atheist ~ Etc. - Etc. - Etc. ...

Each think their theology and dogma is "The Truth", all others are "False" ...
Perhaps why most conflicts and wars in human history have been over religious differences ("truth").

No argument that there are millions of every faith that believe theirs is the one and only true religion.

The funny thing is how wrong they all most likely are.

 

[Stryder50]

History repeats itself. Way too late. Way too late indeed. It's America's destiny!

View attachment 1231252

Major General Smedley D. Butler came to loathe war after witnessing how U.S. military power was repeatedly used to advance corporate and imperial interests rather than genuine national defense. Key reasons:

- Personal experience: Butler served 33 years and fought in numerous interventions (Philippines, China, Central America, Caribbean). He saw firsthand the human cost, brutality, and routine use of force against impoverished peoples.

- Economic/political motives: He concluded many U.S. interventions served private business interests (corporations, plantation owners, rail and mining companies) and financial elites—what he later called a “racket.”

- Institutional corruption: Butler criticized how politicians, bankers, and arms suppliers profited from wars while soldiers and civilians paid the cost. He saw collusion between business and government driving interventions.

- Moral outrage: After retirement he grew convinced that the military was being used to suppress labor, protect investments, and secure markets, which he found unjust and dishonorable.

- Public denunciation: In speeches and his 1935 pamphlet War Is a Racket, Butler summarized these views, arguing veterans should reconceive patriotism as protecting the public from warmongering profiteers.

In short, Butler’s hatred of war grew from direct observation of its human toll and his belief that many conflicts were driven by private gain and political corruption rather than legitimate national defense.

General Butler's views on war were driven by a certain ideology that supports use of violence and human aggression that isn't resisted to allow that violence and aggression to have it's desired affect and results.

If one doesn't resist the violence, aggression, assault by thugs like you then thee is no "way" to real Peace, just submission to violence and oppression. This is what thugs and human scum like you want to see. That your victims won't resist and have no means to resist.

 

[Stryder50]

Will any of them confirm that for us?

I'm conservative and I don't assign "Truth of the human condition" to policy ideas or even ideals like that.

Thats only an example of competing ideas. Ideals even.

No argument that there are millions of every faith that believe theirs is the one and only true religion.

The funny thing is how wrong they all most likely are.

Good luck in convincing them they are "wrong" per your position/views.

That's been happening for thousands of years and no real resolution yet.

 

[The Duke]

Thats mostly right wingers.

Not all of them....and there are some on the left. But the right wing loons have had to cut-reality-to-fit their blob’s statements that they still defend to this day.

Mexico didn’t pay for the wall for one example.
Exporters don’t pay tariffs for another.
I remember when Grumps defended Trump’s statement that covid was going to “disappear like a miracle.”

Bihh, it was never there to begin with. You fell for it, huh?

 

[Chuz Life]

Good luck in convincing them they are "wrong" per your position/views.

That's been happening for thousands of years and no real resolution yet.

Yeah, I won't even attempt that mess.

 

[The Duke]

History repeats itself. Way too late. Way too late indeed. It's America's destiny!

View attachment 1231252

Major General Smedley D. Butler came to loathe war after witnessing how U.S. military power was repeatedly used to advance corporate and imperial interests rather than genuine national defense. Key reasons:

- Personal experience: Butler served 33 years and fought in numerous interventions (Philippines, China, Central America, Caribbean). He saw firsthand the human cost, brutality, and routine use of force against impoverished peoples.

- Economic/political motives: He concluded many U.S. interventions served private business interests (corporations, plantation owners, rail and mining companies) and financial elites—what he later called a “racket.”

- Institutional corruption: Butler criticized how politicians, bankers, and arms suppliers profited from wars while soldiers and civilians paid the cost. He saw collusion between business and government driving interventions.

- Moral outrage: After retirement he grew convinced that the military was being used to suppress labor, protect investments, and secure markets, which he found unjust and dishonorable.

- Public denunciation: In speeches and his 1935 pamphlet War Is a Racket, Butler summarized these views, arguing veterans should reconceive patriotism as protecting the public from warmongering profiteers.

In short, Butler’s hatred of war grew from direct observation of its human toll and his belief that many conflicts were driven by private gain and political corruption rather than legitimate national defense.

What are you, some kinda Chicom shill or something?
GTFO here with that bullshit!
Will history repeat itself with Americans killing people that needed killing and killed? Because that wasn't so great the last time.
I've seen and heard the results of that.
Whoever you are, you have no idea how Americans can kill, especially when trained to.
No, whatever you think is better, is not. Americans will kill you if you mess around. I suggest you keep that in mind. It's an absolute fact.

 

[pknopp]

Most normal societies lock up criminals, not the left. All you need to know

Fraud is a criminal act.

 

[candycorn]

He had babysitters. Haaaaaaaaaahaha

Now you’re changing the story.

Watch the babysitters go get him, fking hilarious, look squirrel

No. He was acknowledging the paratroopers.

The FACT that you must lie undercuts your argument. When will you apologize? Or are you gonna welch on that too?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You don't actually care about being accurate, realistic. You care about your side winning. Those are not the same thing, and you've never once stopped to notice the difference.

You will defend a lie if it came from your camp. You will attack a truth if it came from theirs. You've outsourced your reasoning to your identity and called it conviction. You haven't had an original thought about reality in your entire life, just reactions, just reflexes, just the primate satisfaction of seeing the enemy hurt.

The uncomfortable fact is that most people don't have beliefs. They have loyalties dressed up as beliefs. Epistemology cosplay. You couldn't tell me how you know what you know, because you don't know; you were told, and it felt right because everyone around you nodded.

And the anger. As if the intensity of your feelings is evidence of your correctness. As if volume is argument. You're not passionate about truth; you're addicted to the war. Truth would actually end it. You don't want it to end. The genuinely reality-oriented person is nearly extinct in public discourse. What's left is two mirror-image tribes, each convinced they're the rational ones, each using reason as a weapon rather than a compass, pointing it outward, never inward.

It's not a political problem. It's not even a cultural problem. It's a cognitive failure. And the worst part?

Most of you are proud of it.

Disgusting.

You are talking to yourself in the mirror, but are you even aware?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You don't actually care about being accurate, realistic. You care about your side winning. Those are not the same thing, and you've never once stopped to notice the difference.

You will defend a lie if it came from your camp. You will attack a truth if it came from theirs. You've outsourced your reasoning to your identity and called it conviction. You haven't had an original thought about reality in your entire life, just reactions, just reflexes, just the primate satisfaction of seeing the enemy hurt.

The uncomfortable fact is that most people don't have beliefs. They have loyalties dressed up as beliefs. Epistemology cosplay. You couldn't tell me how you know what you know, because you don't know; you were told, and it felt right because everyone around you nodded.

And the anger. As if the intensity of your feelings is evidence of your correctness. As if volume is argument. You're not passionate about truth; you're addicted to the war. Truth would actually end it. You don't want it to end. The genuinely reality-oriented person is nearly extinct in public discourse. What's left is two mirror-image tribes, each convinced they're the rational ones, each using reason as a weapon rather than a compass, pointing it outward, never inward.

It's not a political problem. It's not even a cultural problem. It's a cognitive failure. And the worst part?

Most of you are proud of it.

Disgusting.

So where's the link? I thought THIS forum requires a link and something of substance beyond a rant

When starting a new thread and declaring something as fact in your opening post, you must link to a source

 

[jc456]

Fraud is a criminal act.

And Walz is still governor and his ag is still ag, newsom still out

 

[Anomalism]

So where's the link? I thought THIS forum requires a link and something of substance beyond a rant

When starting a new thread and declaring something as fact in your opening post, you must link to a source

What a Karen. Lol

Report me.

 

[The Duke]

What a Karen. Lol

Report me.

90% of any lies about what's happening is coming from the MSM and IRGC, respectively.

 

[Anomalism]

90% of any lies about what's happening is coming from the MSM and IRGC, respectively.

What does this have to do with what you quoted?