Clearing The Misunderstanding

[mgh80]

So are kids who don't pass entrance exams destined for a life making a crap wage of 25 or even 30 dollars an hour for life? That's telling them the dream is gone. Can they take the exam more than once? Will students be told what concepts, not questions, but what concepts are on the test so they can prepare? What are the other options for those who fail the entrance exam?

Well yes and no.

First, you are implying as if somehow it is different now.

It is not different now. The only difference is, I would be making the high schools more effective, and restore value to a high school diploma.

Right now, kids get through high school, have a diploma, and are still not qualified for anything but crappy low wage, garbage jobs.

The reason why, is because they were sent through public schools, without being educated.

Most high schools today are turning out diplomas that are worth less than toilet paper. And I know you think I'm exaggerating, but I have had to deal with people who had high school educations, and couldn't work a calculator effectively. And I mean a calculator. I'm not making this up.

So what I am proposing, isn't changing anything for the students who already will not learn. Those students, that would not be able to get into high school, are students that already come out of school unable to get a decent job.

Nothing would be different, except I would be restoring the value of a diploma.

To kind of validate my claim, when I was with a company that ran a warehouse, they were requiring that new employees, take a basic reading and math test. By basic, I mean 5 times 8. And word math problems, like "If you have six pallets with 46 units each, and the manager says ship 5 of them, how many did you ship?"

Why did they do this? Because people were showing up with high school diplomas, and were unable to do basic math, or understand simple directions.

So with that in mind, all I'm doing is preventing the absolute waste of millions of dollars on students that are not going to learn anyway.
And I'm allowing more students to get a quality education. Because problem students do not magically become good students, when they are around good students. Instead good student turn into problem students, when they are around problem students.

Again, this is why Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, most of the world operates this way. Kids that don't make the grades, are removed.

So what can we do with those kids? Well first off, there will be far fewer of them to begin with.

When kids learn they can't go to high school with their friends, unless they pass the test, they tend to study for the test.

But obviously there will be some that will not keep up no matter what. What do we do with them?

Well there were three basic options.
1. Have trade schools that teach pipe fitting, welding, electrician, carpentry, brick laying, construction, and so on.

2. Have special high schools specifically for under achievers. If I remember right, Finland has this. If you fail out, unable to get into any quality high school, and don't want to go to a trade school, you can go to these under achiever schools (My name for it), where you are put into bare minimum requirement educational system.

Now just to point out the obvious, students that get diplomas from those high schools, tend to get lower paying jobs, because the diploma is obviously, a lower level of education.

And lastly the military, or you are on your own.

I think that's fair all the way around. The students that are doing their best, are not hampered and hindered by boat anchor students that will never learn anyway.

And at the same time, all the problem students are given more than enough chances to make something of themselves.

1. Almost every educator and almost every person I know involved in education thinks that we should more alternatives in terms of teaching trades from a traditional high school. You're preaching to the choir.

2. We basically have these (alternative schools).

The real problem is the culture of America. Everybody gets a trophy, every kid passes due to having a pulse and a warm body, everybody gets 8675309 second chances, nobody takes any personal responsibility, etc. Just this morning I had a student from last year email me to see if I can accept late work and change his grade. School ended in May and it's nearly August now...I wrote back an email explaining no. Mom emailed me separately begging for him to pass. smdh.

Right, and in a public school, the parents contact the administration, and they argue and protest, and if you make an issue out of it, then they have the student moved to a different teacher, and that teacher passes them, and they eventually get what they want.

I've heard stories like what you said, a dozen times. In fact, my own mother had this problem, because she had a problem child that refused to learn, the parent started arguing with her over it.

Again, what you just said is exactly why charter and private schools are better.

There is no arguing with the administration at a private or charter schools, because the administration doesn't care. They have a reputation to maintain of excellence, and if they start passing uneducated kids, that reputation will be wrecked, and then they'll lose money and go bankrupt.

Because their profits are exclusively based on educational reputation of the school.

Whereas a school district doesn't have to worry about making profits, only keeping government happy, which means not pissing off voters.

As long as mommy is happy enough to not vote badly in the election, the quality of education doesn't matter.

You should read Thomas Sowells book, "A personal Odyssey". He talks about running a special inner city education program, and everything was perfectly fine until one student decided they simply wouldn't do the work. He kicked the student out. The parents got involved, the administration got involved, and finally it was handed down that he was required to keep the student in class.

Then unsurprising to us on the right-wing, when all the other students realized they could get away with not working very hard, and there was nothing the teacher could do to remove them, the quality of educational work throughout the class fell dramatically, and Thomas Sowell turned in his notice that he would not continue teaching there.

Would that have happened at a private or charter school? No. It would not.

Hey bonehead! Charter schools ARE public schools!

Then how are they able to kick out problem students, when public schools apparently can not?

Another misconception in your part? They just kick them out to general public schools.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You just posted a problem student, that didn't do his work, and the parents complained until he was allowed to turn in late work.

That is a problem student.

But that said, I've seen other problem students too. I've seen stuff that was shocking to me.

So I worked at the homeless shelter down town. They had a group of students from the local high school come in to help.

This woman teacher, was very close to being molested by the 3 different male students. They were touching her, and grabbing her, in ways that I would have been terrified to do. Never a billion years, would have considered treating a teacher that way in school.

But not only did this teacher not slap these reprobates across the face with a backhand, but she appeared as though this was 'normal' to her. Which is why I did not do anything. I wanted to, but if this is 'normal' and acceptable in public schools, then I'll be just causing a problem.

But I promise you, if you saw what I did, happen to your wife, you would leave that man a greasy spot on the ground. And if my parents heard I acted that way toward any women, they would leave me a greasy spot on the ground. And rightly so.

But that is going on in public schools, and those kids are not expelled. Again, maybe your specific school you taught at, was not like that. Other people are having a different experience.

Charter schools are absolutely public schools they just run on different curricula and have the ability to boot students to their traditional public school.

I understand that students get away with murder at schools and I actually believe your story 100%. However I assure you that I'm much more experienced and familiar with students getting away with poor behavior than you are.

A few years ago I taught this kid who would put on this fakest charming smile and get out of control all the time and beg to get out of trouble. He didn't try it with me (I'm assuming because I'm male), but he knew the school system and made it a habit of getting out in a jam. He's currently serving time in prison for breaking into a MARKED cop car and then pulling a gun on the cop. He's lucky the cop didn't kill him and instead tackled him to the ground. His mom blamed society, the police, and even the school. The truth is she enabled him and the school system absolutely did the same. He was so used to talking his way out of situations he got cocky and thought he could again...wrong.

For the record I agree with you that we need to kick students out of schools more often-and for many of them find a place they'll be more successful (like a tech/trade school or just let them flip burgers at McDonald's).

Saying the way that (some) charter schools are run are superior than traditional schools I actually agree with. But this doesn't make the actual school's faculty and staff better necessarily. In fact public schools tend to more qualified teachers than private because they get paid more and have better benefits.