Zone1 Christian Zionism

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I have no idea. We've reached the end of my astrophysics knowledge.

The CMB is the radiation left over from matter annihilating anti-matter or vice versa. Thus proving that the universe was created from nearly equal amounts of matter and anti-matter which popped into existence through paired particle production and did not exist as energy prior to popping into existence. It existed as potential. Hence the phrase, a temporary borrowing of energy from nothing.

 

[alang1216]

It means that existence has always existed and is the source or matrix of the physical world.

A creator implies an intelligence that 'existence' does not. Which is it?

 

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A creator implies an intelligence that 'existence' does not. Which is it?

Why do you suppose existence does not imply intelligence?

Existence and nature are deeply related. Existence is the fact of being, while nature is the description of what that being is like. In other words, existence and nature are so closely related that they are practically inseparable. So given that the nature of existence is to create order from chaos, why can't existence imply intelligence?

 

[alang1216]

Why do you suppose existence does not imply intelligence?

Existence and nature are deeply related. Existence is the fact of being, while nature is the description of what that being is like. In other words, existence and nature are so closely related that they are practically inseparable. So given that the nature of existence is to create order from chaos, why can't existence imply intelligence?

Yet another unsupported leap of logic. So the description of being creates order from chaos. Is that really what you are trying to say? I hope it's not being implies intelligence.

 

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Yet another unsupported leap of logic. So the description of being creates order from chaos. Is that really what you are trying to say? I hope it's not being implies intelligence.

It's not unsupported logic. I literally just explained the logic. Yes, the description of what existence is responsible for implies intelligence because existence itself creates order from chaos.

You substituted "description of being" for "existence" thinking that it would sound dumb. But the reality is that existence itself is what is doing the work. Nature describes what existence is doing.

 

[ding]

Yet another unsupported leap of logic. So the description of being creates order from chaos. Is that really what you are trying to say? I hope it's not being implies intelligence.

So... why can't existence imply intelligence?

 

[alang1216]

It's not unsupported logic. I literally just explained the logic. Yes, the description of what existence is responsible for implies intelligence because existence itself creates order from chaos.

What is the timeline here? What is the sequence of for the creation of our universe: intelligence -> existence -> chaos -> order?

You substituted "description of being" for "existence" thinking that it would sound dumb.

Doesn't it? But they are your definitions: nature = description and existence = being

But the reality is that existence itself is what is doing the work. Nature describes what existence is doing.

So existence is the opposite of entropy?

 

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What is the timeline here? What is the sequence of for the creation of our universe: intelligence -> existence -> chaos -> order?

To argue nothing exists outside of our space and time seems silly to me especially when people talk about multiverses. We know the universe was created according to the laws of nature (which describe what existence is like) and are the same laws of nature that describe how space and time evolve. So we know that the laws of nature existed before space and time. Ergo we know that existence existed before space and time just not our existence which began when existence created our space and time.

Doesn't it? But they are your definitions: nature = description and existence = being

No. It doesn't sound dumb at all. It is 100% accurate to say "existence is the fact of being, while nature is the description of what that being is like." Maybe try googling "is existence related to nature?"

So existence is the opposite of entropy?

No. The cost of creating order from chaos is a loss of usable energy. Think of cleaning a messy room. You cleaned the messy room and made it more orderly but you had to expend energy to do so. That energy was lost to the system because it is considered to be unusable.

 

[alang1216]

To argue nothing exists outside of our space and time seems silly to me especially when people talk about multiverses. We know the universe was created according to the laws of nature (which describe what existence is like) and are the same laws of nature that describe how space and time evolve. So we know that the laws of nature existed before space and time. Ergo we know that existence existed before space and time just not our existence which began when existence created our space and time.

So:

1. Existence
2. Space/Time

When do intelligence, chaos, and order appear?

 

[ding]

So:

1. Existence
2. Space/Time

When do intelligence, chaos, and order appear?

Our space time. Who knows how many or if any other space times exist. That is truly unknowable.

If you believe like I do intelligence has always existed - just as every other extant attribute of reality has existed - as the source or matrix of the physical world. Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is the constant presence of Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. Which as near as I can tell is what George Wald believed too.

From a thermodynamic perspective chaos began when the universe began to expand and cool. Which as near as I can tell is when order began as well at the cost of a loss of usable energy. So during this process entropy increased as required by the SLoT.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Christian Zionism is an idea that has existed for only a few centuries. That is, it is extra-biblical, rooted in the erroneous notion that Christ did not come when he said he would come.

Judaism and Christianity are two distinct religions, the latter being a departure from the former. Else, why would it have emerged?

A Judeo-Christian idea is also not that old, though I can see why it developed. Before Christ, despite the debauchery and idolatry of the Jews, their prophets did impart some wisdom. Christianity imparts love and charity. And truth.

Ben Franklin presided over the state constitutional convention in Philadelphia, 1776, during which members affirmed: “And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:

I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.” The Avalon Project : Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776

 

[alang1216]

Ben Franklin presided over the state constitutional convention in Philadelphia, 1776, during which members affirmed: “And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:

I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.” The Avalon Project : Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776

Ben should have included Zoroaster since much of Christian theology came from him.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ben should have included Zoroaster since much of Christian theology came from him.

Beat it liar.

Go back to your job as narrator for a mime.

 

[alang1216]

Beat it liar.

Go back to your job as narrator for a mime.

You can choose to hide your head in your ideological sand but others are open to dialogue and new ideas. It is called growth, you should try it some time.

 

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Ben should have included Zoroaster since much of Christian theology came from him.

So the accounts of the NT are the result of a conspiracy?

conspiracy: a secret agreement between two or more people to commit a harmful act.

 

[alang1216]

So the accounts of the NT are the result of a conspiracy?

conspiracy: a secret agreement between two or more people to commit a harmful act.

Not sure where you get that from but absolutely NOT the case.

 

[norwegen]

Ben Franklin presided over the state constitutional convention in Philadelphia, 1776, during which members affirmed: “And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:

I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.” The Avalon Project : Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776

Yes, I consider scripture divinely inspired, too. All of it, from Genesis to Revelation, is the work of a few Israelites who worshiped their one living deity. Their remnant.

Most Israelites, however, were wicked and idolatrous, or so this remnant conveyed in their compositions. Fortunately, this majority did not contribute to their texts (at least, as far as I know).

Did Franklin or anyone else who helped establish state or federal governments believe Jews should relocate to a future state of Israel? In his letter to the Danforth Synagogue, Washington assured them they were quite welcome right where they were.

Is Christian Zionism mentioned in any of America's 18th-century documents? It certainly isn't mentioned in the Bible. Not in any post-biblical sense, anyway.

 

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Not sure where you get that from but absolutely NOT the case.

Logic. There's a body of work that presents itself as being the truth. According to you it's actually not true and was stolen/plagiarized from something else. I don't see how that could be an accident. So you must believe that it was intentionally stolen/plagiarized for the express purpose of secretly tricking Jews into blaspheme and prey on unsuspecting gentiles.

 

[alang1216]

Logic. There's a body of work that presents itself as being the truth. According to you it's actually not true and was stolen/plagiarized from something else. I don't see how that could be an accident. So you must believe that it was intentionally stolen/plagiarized for the express purpose of secretly tricking Jews into blaspheme and prey on unsuspecting gentiles.

None of that is true. You believe the Bible came from above, I believe it is a work of man that has evolved and changed over time and as such has a history that can be studied. No conspiracy, no theft, no secret tricks.

 

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None of that is true. You believe the Bible came from above, I believe it is a work of man that has evolved and changed over time and as such has a history that can be studied. No conspiracy, no theft, no secret tricks.

First of all I believe the bible was written by men.

And according to you what was written about Jesus is fabricated and apparently ripped off. According to you. So I don't see how you can't believe it wasn't a conspiracy. Do I need to walk you through the elements of a conspiracy?