Zone1 Christian Zionism

You claimed they "crafted" stories. Sounds like you think they made them up.
It only sounds that way to you because it destroys your made up narrative of fairy tales and magic.

Maybe try asking Google why ancient Israelites crafted narratives of events to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel.
 
You claimed they "crafted" stories.
Not exactly. They crafted narratives of EVENTS.

The EVENT happened and was not made up. The narrative of the EVENT was used to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel because they believed they were chosen to establish standards.
 
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It only sounds that way to you because it destroys your made up narrative of fairy tales and magic.

Maybe try asking Google why ancient Israelites crafted narratives of events to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel.
No, it sounds that way to me because science says there no real basis for the event. Exodus being a prime example.
 
No, it sounds that way to me because science says there no real basis for the event. Exodus being a prime example.
So the basis for the flood wasn’t an historical flood? Or the basis of the many battles chronicled in the OT accounts weren’t historical battles?

In every passage you take exception to God being a meanie there was an event which was the point of the account. They used that event to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel.
 
Exodus being a prime example.
Not really. Exodus was embellished to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel. That doesn’t mean something didn’t happen. It just means it didn’t happen as described.

 
So the basis for the flood wasn’t an historical flood? Or the basis of the many battles chronicled in the OT accounts weren’t historical battles?

In every passage you take exception to God being a meanie there was an event which was the point of the account. They used that event to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel.
Curious that when I made a similar claim about the Resurrection you couldn't understand that I didn't believe it was a conspiracy to commit fraud.
 
Curious that when I made a similar claim about the Resurrection you couldn't understand that I didn't believe it was a conspiracy to commit fraud.
Why is it curious? Seems perfectly consistent to me. I don’t see how you can claim the events in the NT aren’t a conspiracy if you believe they never happened. The NT and OT are vastly different. There’s no argument that miracles performed by Christ were embellished. Because what was the point of those accounts other than the miracles. Those accounts aren’t recording anything historical than Jesus Christ.
 
Why is it curious? Seems perfectly consistent to me. I don’t see how you can claim the events in the NT aren’t a conspiracy if you believe they never happened. The NT and OT are vastly different. There’s no argument that miracles performed by Christ were embellished. Because what was the point of those accounts other than the miracles. Those accounts aren’t recording anything historical than Jesus Christ.
So was the Resurrection an actual event or an embellishment?
 
No embellishments. Surely you remember our conversations regarding the evidence, right?
So the miracles and resurrection were real events without embellishments while the Exodus was a real event with embellishments. How exactly is someone supposed to know the difference?
 
So the miracles and resurrection were real events without embellishments while the Exodus was a real event with embellishments. How exactly is someone supposed to know the difference?
How can you not know the difference?
 
So the miracles and resurrection were real events without embellishments while the Exodus was a real event with embellishments. How exactly is someone supposed to know the difference?
By identifying the historical aspect of the account that was being passed down (battle, conquest, flood, migration, creation, etc) and seeing how that was used to teach about the covenant, justice, obedience and Israel’s relationship with God.
 
By identifying the historical aspect of the account that was being passed down (battle, conquest, flood, migration, creation, etc) and seeing how that was used to teach about the covenant, justice, obedience and Israel’s relationship with God.
We should all agree that Jesus was executed by the Romans. That was historical. Sorry, but the resurrection and miracles were, IMHO, embellishments that taught about Jesus and his relationship with God. We also should all agree that both the NT and the OT are filled with embellishments.
 
embellishments that taught about Jesus and his relationship with God
Can you walk me through a few of the miracles he performed and show how they taught about Jesus and his relationship with God? And what purpose that served?
 
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As I have posited several times, there is only one single religion, not two different ones, the Judeo-Christian religion, that is the mainstay of Western Civilization and of America. The history of Zionism attests to that fact.



1. “…the movement arrived in America with the first settlers. The Puritans and the Scottish Covenanters were Christian Zionists who modeled their escape from the British Isles over the Atlantic on the Israelite exodus from Egypt through the Red Sea….The universities they founded, Harvard and Yale, required all students to learn Hebrew. Salem, one of their first settlements, was named after the Hebrew word for “peace.”


2. …radical Protestants such as the Puritans read biblical promises made to the Jews as unfulfilled commitments to modern Jews. These included, crucially, the repatriation of the Jews and reconstruction of a Third Temple.


3. The emergence of the Jewish Zionist movement in the late nineteenth century was shaped by Christian Zionists who were far greater in number and had been agitating for centuries for the repatriation of the Jews to their biblical homeland. William Blackstone, a highly influential evangelical author who dubbed himself “God’s little errand boy,” headed up a mass petition to then-president Benjamin Harrison for the delivery of Palestine to the Jews….petitioning for the transportation of Jews to Palestine was sent in 1891, several years before the Jewish Zionist movement had emerged.


4. William Hechler, an Anglican clergyman, and a patron and door-opener for Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Jewish Zionism, is another important figure in the history of Christian Zionism. Hechler lobbied Herzl to select Palestine as the political objective for the movement over other options in Africa and Asia offered by the British Empire. So implicated were nineteenth-century Christians in the early days of Zionism that many scholars and rabbis have gone as far as to describe Zionism as a Christian phenomenon.


5. …Gil Hochberg, a professor of Middle East Studies at Colombia (sic), has argued that “the majority of Zionists across the globe are Christians. In fact, it has always been the case. Zionism is a Christian ideology with deep roots in both Catholic and Protestant communities.” Christian eschatology, which conflates the Jews of the Bible with contemporary European Jews and which advocates for their physical restoration to Palestine, dates back to at least early seventeenth century Jacobean England.”
This is interesting information. I posted a lengthy thread yesterday in this section suggesting how important it is for America and the West to protect Judeo-Christian values in the present juncture in world history.

I believe there are two distinct religions, however, there is far more overlap and shared viewed than most people think, even some experts often cloud their opinion with their discourse. One benefit of my life experience and theological journey is that I don't suffer from such barriers to objective analysis.

It is also interesting that there are many Jews who consider the Talmud a radical book and they denounce it, believing many passages reflect poorly on Judaism and are not the manner in which they live their lives. I respect such opinions even as I have focused on the many positive re-enactments and direction in this massive doctrine.

It is refreshing though, to hear some provide a contrarian view, from those born Jewish at birth. I have read and indulged in detail with Talmud, and yes, there are some passages that I don't see supported in the Torah so one has to wonder (and I certainly have pondered this question) just how much of a leap the author made to "evolve" the beliefs of Judaism and how much is based on their own inaccurate bias?

Regardless, in any rigourously dissected historical text, one can say the same of any book or doctrine related to the major religions. The key to me is that Judaism and Christianity both in their own manner evolve with civilization. The core messages and Commands are still as critical as ever and mean the most (a major focus on the 10 Commandments for instance, perhaps simplifies these tenets for the casual believer), but, there is more tolerance and appreciation of all ideals today due to exposure to others.

This evolution cannot be said for all religions and more specifically, all regions of the world.
That in itself allows Judaism and Christianity to at very least remain cousins with many similar core traits.

Hopefully the world will come together with commonality rather than divisions among one another. Judaism and Christianity have enough in common that one must state "it isn't Gods message that is divisive it is the end-user who is at fault". Meaning those of us on earth who succumb to our own narrative and agenda.

G-d made all of us. For my part, that is the most basic compound in any religious clarification in either the Torah, the Talmud or the New Testament. For that which you see division or hatred for another, passive or otherwise; ask yourself how G-d must react: "just who are you to question my (G-ds) will and my creations!"?

If one approaches all faiths in this manner, we will come to realize that we will all be judged by our own interpretation and submission to these Commands. It begins and ends with the 613, but even more succinctly the critical 10.
 
Can you walk me through a few of the miracles he performed and show how they taught about Jesus and his relationship with God? And what purpose that served?
Christians were trying to convert pagans and their religion was very transactional. Whichever god was the most powerful was the one to go with.
 
Christians were trying to convert pagans and their religion was very transactional. Whichever god was the most powerful was the one to go with.
So you are going back to it was a conspiracy?

To prove these accounts were embellished you need to walk through the account explaining what the event was that was being passed down and then show how it was embellished and what the purpose was for the embellished.
 
So you are going back to it was a conspiracy?

To prove these accounts were embellished you need to walk through the account explaining what the event was that was being passed down and then show how it was embellished and what the purpose was for the embellished.
As you said, these narratives were crafted to make theological points. You admitted the Exodus story was embellished, was it a conspiracy to commit fraud?
 
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