Zone1 Christ did too establish an organization, aka: a CHURCH (with buildings!)

[notmyfault2020]

Jesus said in Mt 16:18 that He would BUILD His Church (sounds like it was incomplete at that time in history. . maybe because it did not have buildings yet)

and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Well, it looks like the gates of Hell HAVE prevailed against society in general. We have homosexuals and other perverts parading in public, proud of their perversities.. and worse, trying to foist them onto our innocent children..

We have women screaming for the right to murder their children at any age in the womb and sick politicians agreeing and working to keep such a "right"

And i could go on and on.. so the gates of Hell have prevailed against society, to be sure.

The gates of Hell have also prevailed over the novus ordo (new order) "church" of francis, the non-pope

The real Church is the one that said NO to... the NO Church (novus ordo). Again, the true Church is the Society of St Pius X Church, which still does things the old fashioned or timeless way.. because God doesn't change.. His Church does not change (dogma) and the Mass canonized by Pope Saint Pius V did not change. Even Vatican II didn't change or even (far as I know) talk about changing THAT.

But Vatican II did teach that all religions.. whether that of Buddha or Vishna or Islam.. can save! You don't need Jesus to get to Heaven..

If that is not heresy, nothing is.. ("No one comes to the Father except through Me" Jesus said)

In any case... tired of hearing about how Jesus never established an organization.

He did establish a Church, though. And isn't a Church an organization? Jesus founded a CHURCH, which indeed is an organization.

"I will build My Church" He said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

 

[otto105]

Jesus said in Mt 16:18 that He would BUILD His Church (sounds like it was incomplete at that time in history. . maybe because it did not have buildings yet)

and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Well, it looks like the gates of Hell HAVE prevailed against society in general. We have homosexuals and other perverts parading in public, proud of their perversities.. and worse, trying to foist them onto our innocent children..

We have women screaming for the right to murder their children at any age in the womb and sick politicians agreeing and working to keep such a "right"

And i could go on and on.. so the gates of Hell have prevailed against society, to be sure.

The gates of Hell have also prevailed over the novus ordo (new order) "church" of francis, the non-pope

The real Church is the one that said NO to... the NO Church (novus ordo). Again, the true Church is the Society of St Pius X Church, which still does things the old fashioned or timeless way.. because God doesn't change.. His Church does not change (dogma) and the Mass canonized by Pope Saint Pius V did not change. Even Vatican II didn't change or even (far as I know) talk about changing THAT.

But Vatican II did teach that all religions.. whether that of Buddha or Vishna or Islam.. can save! You don't need Jesus to get to Heaven..

If that is not heresy, nothing is.. ("No one comes to the Father except through Me" Jesus said)

In any case... tired of hearing about how Jesus never established an organization.

He did establish a Church, though. And isn't a Church an organization? Jesus founded a CHURCH, which indeed is an organization.

"I will build My Church" He said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

Hilarious

 

[occupied]

Jesus rebelled against the temple's secular authority and here we are 2000 years later with a bunch of so-called Christians just itching to remake the pharisees in their own image.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Hilarious

I thought so

I'm still laughing..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Jesus rebelled against the temple's secular authority and here we are 2000 years later with a bunch of so-called Christians just itching to remake the pharisees in their own image.

You're entitled to your distorted, uneducated view

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus rebelled against the temple's secular authority and here we are 2000 years later with a bunch of so-called Christians just itching to remake the pharisees in their own image.

Garbage...

 

[otto105]

I thought so

I'm still laughing..

No your not. Your humor includes you and your geeszuz laughing about mass murder.

 

[buttercup]

Although you did bring up a few things that are true, your definition of "the church" is not biblical and it's not the standard view among Christians.

"The Church" is not a building or a denomination. It is the body of Christ, which means all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

The word “church” is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia, which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of church is not that of a building, but of people.

 

[occupied]

You're entitled to your distorted, uneducated view

Yes I am. Doesn't that just burn your Christfascist ass?

 

[occupied]

Garbage...

It's all right there printed in red but to a right wing Christian it's still blasphemy.

 

[norwegen]

Jesus said in Mt 16:18 that He would BUILD His Church (sounds like it was incomplete at that time in history. . maybe because it did not have buildings yet)

and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Well, it looks like the gates of Hell HAVE prevailed against society in general. We have homosexuals and other perverts parading in public, proud of their perversities.. and worse, trying to foist them onto our innocent children..

We have women screaming for the right to murder their children at any age in the womb and sick politicians agreeing and working to keep such a "right"

And i could go on and on.. so the gates of Hell have prevailed against society, to be sure.

The gates of Hell have also prevailed over the novus ordo (new order) "church" of francis, the non-pope

The real Church is the one that said NO to... the NO Church (novus ordo). Again, the true Church is the Society of St Pius X Church, which still does things the old fashioned or timeless way.. because God doesn't change.. His Church does not change (dogma) and the Mass canonized by Pope Saint Pius V did not change. Even Vatican II didn't change or even (far as I know) talk about changing THAT.

But Vatican II did teach that all religions.. whether that of Buddha or Vishna or Islam.. can save! You don't need Jesus to get to Heaven..

If that is not heresy, nothing is.. ("No one comes to the Father except through Me" Jesus said)

In any case... tired of hearing about how Jesus never established an organization.

He did establish a Church, though. And isn't a Church an organization? Jesus founded a CHURCH, which indeed is an organization.

"I will build My Church" He said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

If I'm not mistaken, the Catholic Church says the "Upper Room," or Cenacle, in Jerusalem, where the Last Supper was held, is where the earliest Christian assembly regularly gathered. This is not verified.

As to organization, what organization? A body that has no palace, no magistrate, no central authority that can be pointed to, has no organization. The hierarchy that tradition has conferred upon the brick-and-mortar society is not the church that Jesus built.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's all right there printed in red but to a right wing Christian it's still blasphemy.

More garbage....

 

[notmyfault2020]

Although you did bring up a few things that are true, your definition of "the church" is not biblical and it's not the standard view among Christians.

"The Church" is not a building or a denomination. It is the body of Christ, which means all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

The word “church” is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia, which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of church is not that of a building, but of people.

why can't it be both?

Is there anything in the bible that says we cannot have the Church be both a universal brotherhood of believers NOT in a building AND

IN a building



I kind of had the thought that we should be Christians whether IN a building or not..

 

[notmyfault2020]

If I'm not mistaken, the Catholic Church says the "Upper Room," or Cenacle, in Jerusalem, where the Last Supper was held, is where the earliest Christian assembly regularly gathered. This is not verified.

As to organization, what organization? A body that has no palace, no magistrate, no central authority that can be pointed to, has no organization. The hierarchy that tradition has conferred upon the brick-and-mortar society is not the church that Jesus built.

I would respond but I am unclear what u are saying

?

 

[Clyde 154]

Jesus said in Mt 16:18 that He would BUILD His Church (sounds like it was incomplete at that time in history. . maybe because it did not have buildings yet)

and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Well, it looks like the gates of Hell HAVE prevailed against society in general. We have homosexuals and other perverts parading in public, proud of their perversities.. and worse, trying to foist them onto our innocent children..

We have women screaming for the right to murder their children at any age in the womb and sick politicians agreeing and working to keep such a "right"

And i could go on and on.. so the gates of Hell have prevailed against society, to be sure.

The gates of Hell have also prevailed over the novus ordo (new order) "church" of francis, the non-pope

The real Church is the one that said NO to... the NO Church (novus ordo). Again, the true Church is the Society of St Pius X Church, which still does things the old fashioned or timeless way.. because God doesn't change.. His Church does not change (dogma) and the Mass canonized by Pope Saint Pius V did not change. Even Vatican II didn't change or even (far as I know) talk about changing THAT.

But Vatican II did teach that all religions.. whether that of Buddha or Vishna or Islam.. can save! You don't need Jesus to get to Heaven..

If that is not heresy, nothing is.. ("No one comes to the Father except through Me" Jesus said)

In any case... tired of hearing about how Jesus never established an organization.

He did establish a Church, though. And isn't a Church an organization? Jesus founded a CHURCH, which indeed is an organization.

"I will build My Church" He said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

No.........Christ established a "spiritual Kingdom".........that He called His church that the gates of hell could not prevail against. (Matthew 16). He established this kingdom/church upon the foundational stone/truth that "He" Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah of prophecy, as declared by Peter when Jesus asked whom do you say I am......and Jesus declared to Peter, God the Father had revealed this truth to Peter (Matt. 16:17-18)...........and upon this ROCK (the truth that Peter just spoke), I will build MY CHURCH.

Jesus was and is that Rock........the chief foundational cornerstone that the builders (Jews) rejected. (Acts 4:11, 1 Cor. 10:4) The scriptures are clear.......Jesus is the foundational stone of the spiritual Kingdom of God, that came in the 1st century. Jesus declared this kingdom/church would be established in the very generation that Jesus was speaking addressing in the 1st century (Matt. 16:28, Mark 9:1).

 

[notmyfault2020]

No.........Christ established a "spiritual Kingdom"........

But again: Who says?

you?

I'm going w/ the ancient CHURCH founded by Jesus Himself.. not some human (sinful) being

 

[Clyde 154]

But again: Who says?

you?

I'm going w/ the ancient CHURCH founded by Jesus Himself.. not some human (sinful) being

I did not present MY WORDS..........As always, I allow the scriptures to define themselves by content, context and subject matter, Clearly Jesus established His church/kingdom in the 1st century upon the ROCK/STONE (truth) that He (Jesus) was indeed the Messiah of Prophecy, The Son of God, The Son of Man.

When you read Matthew 16: 13-20, in content and stay within the contexual integrity of the Subject Matter...the building of Christ's church/kingdom........Peter is not the chief cornerstone upon which the kingdom/church was established.......it was the Truth revealed to Peter by the Father, that confirmed that Jesus indeed was the Son of God. This text is confirmed by other passages of scripture, "All Inspired by the same Spirit of Truth (2 Tim. 3:16-17).....Jesus was that chief, foundation Stone/Rock upon which the Kingdom of God would be constructed. (Acts 4:11-12, 1 Cor. 10:4).

What did the Spirit of Truth inspire the Apostle to declare? "FOR NO OTHER (that leaves Peter out of the picture) FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY THAN THAT WHICH HAS BEEN LAID, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST." -- 1 Cor. 4:11

Following that pasage of scripture the Apostle declared, "FOR THEY DRANK OF THE SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM, AND THAT ROCK WAS JESUS." -- 1 Cor. 10:4

Jesus Himself declared the Kingdom of God.........whom He and John the Baptist both preached "....the Kingdom of God is at hand (near)....." (Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15)...........was a Kingdom that would come without observation (it would be a spiritual kingdom residing with the heart of the faithful) -- Luke 17:21

John the Baptist preached, the "REPENT........The kingdom of God is at hand......" -- Matt. 3:1-17

Jesus declared that it would come in that very generation of the 1st century (Mark 9:1, Matt.16:28) Unless you are claiming there are human beings alive today that have reached the age of 2000 years +. The Kingdom indeed came in the 1st century as Jesus said it would

That Kingdom/Church was established on the day of Pentecost 33 A.D. (Acts 2:30), "Therefore let all the House of Israel know that assuredly that God HAS MADE (past tense) this Jesus, whom you (the Jews) crucified.....the builders rejected Jesus)......BOTH LORD AND CHRIST." Lord is used in describing God, Christ is the Messiah, Savior.



Look at the prophecy of Daniel concering the Kingdom of God. Daniel "the prophet, who is the only one authorized to interpret as declared by Peter --2 Peter 1:19-21, scriptures are not for private interpretation as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit of Truth, only the prophets would interpret and declare what they interprepted.

Daniel "interpreted" Nebuchadnezzar's dream of 4 conservative world empires (history documents these empires/kingdoms as 1. Babylonan 2. Medo-Persian 3. Grecian 4. Roman), and in the days of the 4th kingdom on earth God would, ".......establish a kingdom which shall never be destroyed." -- Daniel 2:44 ".......and it shall stand forever."

Then Danile had another vision, One like the Son of Man coming with the CLOUDS OF HEAVEN....................He came to the Ancient of Days (God), and they brought Him (the Son of Man, Jesus) near before Him (God), then to Him (Jesus) was given dominion and glory and a kingdom.........that all nations on earth and all languges should serve Him.....an everlasting kingdom. -- Daniel 7:13-14

History proves that the 4th kingdom was during the age of the Roman Empire.

The scriptures confirm the prophecy of Daniel was speaking of Christ Jesus taking control of His kingdom in the 1st century.....around 33 A.D. Jesus minstry lasted but 3.5 years.....but His Spiritual Kingdom/church has grown to encompasses over 1/3 the world's total population with no end in sight......until Judgment day. At which time the Kingdom given to Jesus Christ will be given back to the Father (1 Cor. 15:22-25)

Compare Daniels prophecy to the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus ascended to Heaven IN THE CLOUDS, accompanied by angels from heaven. (Act 1:9-11). The Ancient of Times (God) granted to Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18).

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jesus said in Mt 16:18 that He would BUILD His Church (sounds like it was incomplete at that time in history. . maybe because it did not have buildings yet)

and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Well, it looks like the gates of Hell HAVE prevailed against society in general. We have homosexuals and other perverts parading in public, proud of their perversities.. and worse, trying to foist them onto our innocent children..

We have women screaming for the right to murder their children at any age in the womb and sick politicians agreeing and working to keep such a "right"

And i could go on and on.. so the gates of Hell have prevailed against society, to be sure.

The gates of Hell have also prevailed over the novus ordo (new order) "church" of francis, the non-pope

The real Church is the one that said NO to... the NO Church (novus ordo). Again, the true Church is the Society of St Pius X Church, which still does things the old fashioned or timeless way.. because God doesn't change.. His Church does not change (dogma) and the Mass canonized by Pope Saint Pius V did not change. Even Vatican II didn't change or even (far as I know) talk about changing THAT.

But Vatican II did teach that all religions.. whether that of Buddha or Vishna or Islam.. can save! You don't need Jesus to get to Heaven..

If that is not heresy, nothing is.. ("No one comes to the Father except through Me" Jesus said)

In any case... tired of hearing about how Jesus never established an organization.

He did establish a Church, though. And isn't a Church an organization? Jesus founded a CHURCH, which indeed is an organization.

"I will build My Church" He said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

"The Church" isn't a building. It is the Body of Believers

 

[notmyfault2020]

I did not present MY WORDS..........As always, I allow the scriptures to define themselves by content, context and subject matter,

Be honest and say the TRUTH

You go by what you THINK is a proper interpretation of Scripture. You can be and ARE wrong to interpret things the way you do. There is only one infallible way to interpret certain Scriptures and the CHURCH is the one to do that, not a mere man (every man for himself..). Which Church is the Original? Everyone wants to know.. It was not any "church" that came in the 16th century, the 17th or.. whatever. The Original Church began in the beginning.. first started being called Catholic in AD 107 (probably earlier but 107 AD is according to ancient writings extant)

The Douay Rheims is probably the only truly trustworthy version of the Bible..

And the Jews practiced the first religion of God.. the Catholics retained some of the Jewish practices after Christ ascended.. I would be here all day and night if I wrote out all I have learned about such things.. But suffice it to say that God has had a Church much longer than.. well, far longer than protestants are aware of. The protestants threw out a lot of Jewish stuff.. virtually all of it.. But did God? Catholics say NO resoundingly.

As one person who converted from Jewish to Protestant to Catholic put it RE the Holy Mass:

"It's a synogogue... but with Christ!"

 

[DudleySmith]

Christians already had buildings; they preached in the Temple and in synagogues, so they didn't need theri own buildings at the time, which means Buttercup's explanation is the correct interpretation. The Babylonian cultists didn't start throwing them out of synagogues until later, in some cases many decades later.

Birkat haMinim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to be yet another cult thing introduced in Ezra's day.