Zone1 How we know the Catholic Church (called such at least as early as 107 AD) did not fail

[Cougarbear]

Yes only the Father knows because he is the only true God.

So, why did your scholar prophets try 8 times? It's okay to say in the last days or possibly after a certain date. But, not a definite day or even a specific year. If they errored that badly on something even Jesus didn't know when he'd come back then why believe them with any translation attempts.

 

[Ace Nova]

Here is simple bible milk--Jesus speaking= Matt 23:9--Do not call any man on earth your Father( as one taking the lead( teacher) in a religion) for there is one your heavenly Father.
Yet the priests are called Father, the Pope elevates himself into Gods position by being called holy Father. It wasnt speaking about dads because they did Father their children. God Fathered 100% of the spiritual truths, one taking the lead Fathered 0 of them--That is what Jesus was talking about. They have had 1750 years and cannot understand that simple truth.

Semantics and translation! That has been debunked over and over again over again over the the past 1700 years. Do you know the term Jesus used to refer to "God" in Aramaic? Abba - which means "Father". When Jesus was the cross, most early texts"A have him saying "Adonai" another word for Father or Elohim - meaning God.

And the primary reason Jesus taught to call God "Father" or "Abba/Adonai" - is because he was teaching them to use a more personal term of endearment instead of the more traditional "Elohim". Not the other way around. And attaching it to "heavenly" would have made it more appropriate when referring to God.

Jesus likely called Joseph "Abba" that's why he REPEATEDLY uses the term "heavenly Father" or "Father in Heaven". Had he not called Joseph "Abba" there wouldn't be a reason to use the term "Father in heaven". It's really that simple.

And for what it's worth, most Catholic priests are usually referred to as "Father Mike" or "Father Dan" etc. - which is already less formal - and clearly seen as simply a "title" - a VAST difference from saying "My Father in Heaven" or "Heavenly Father" - which clearly refers to God.

 

[Cougarbear]

Semantics and translation! That has been debunked over and over again over again over the the past 1700 years. Do you know the term Jesus used to refer to "God" in Aramaic? Abba - which means "Father". When Jesus was the cross, most early texts"A have him saying "Adonai" another word for Father or Elohim - meaning God.

And the primary reason Jesus taught to call God "Father" or "Abba/Adonai" - is because he was teaching them to use a more personal term of endearment instead of the more traditional "Elohim". Not the other way around. And attaching it to "heavenly" would have made it more appropriate when referring to God.

Jesus likely called Joseph "Abba" that's why he REPEATEDLY uses the term "heavenly Father" or "Father in Heaven". Had he not called Joseph "Abba" there wouldn't be a reason to use the term "Father in heaven". It's really that simple.

And for what it's worth, most Catholic priests are usually referred to as "Father Mike" or "Father Dan" etc. - which is already less formal - and clearly seen as simply a "title" - a VAST difference from saying "My Father in Heaven" or "Heavenly Father".

What about the Pope? They call him Holy Father. Yikeeeees!!! In our Church, we refer to the name of the Father as Elohim. But, he, as with Jehovah or Jesus there are several names as well as titles that can be used.
Now, you might want to actually read the entire chapter 23 of Matthew. At no point is the Lord trying to teach a more personal term like Father in Heaven or Elohim. He's thrashing the Sadducees and Pharisees for putting them in the seat of Moses in the 2nd verse. And, apparently, they were sitting themselves in the seats of the Father and Son in the upper rooms of the Temple or the Holy of Holies. The words Father and Son are specific to our Father in Heaven and the Son of God, period when it comes to holy works as well. He also chastised them for sitting in the seats of God while not lifting a finger. Read the chapter dude. So, I have no idea what you are talking about 1700 years. Huh???

 

[luiza]

Cultists arguing with each other about how many angels you can get to fit on a pin head .

No wonder Christianity is dying as we watch .
At least there will be one less Cult Control movement for the Sheeple to be trapped by .

And the person most delighted by that will be Jesus the Essene Monk

 

[Cougarbear]

Cultists arguing with each other about how many angels you can get to fit on a pin head .

No wonder Christianity is dying as we watch .
At least there will be one less Cult Control movement for the Sheeple to be trapped by .

And the person most delighted by that will be Jesus the Essene Monk

And, what cult do you belong to?

 

[kjw47]

So, why did your scholar prophets try 8 times? It's okay to say in the last days or possibly after a certain date. But, not a definite day or even a specific year. If they errored that badly on something even Jesus didn't know when he'd come back then why believe them with any translation attempts.

Human error. Paul had to correct Peter one time-Why? Human error. Plus in those days only error filled and altered trinity translation was available. All of creation sees the mass of confusion those translations have caused.

 

[Cougarbear]

Human error. Paul had to correct Peter one time-Why? Human error. Plus in those days only error filled and altered trinity translation was available. All of creation sees the mass of confusion those translations have caused.

Dodge that bullet again! Since they errored many times, I'd say Bible translation you have has a bunch of errors and things taken from the Bible.

 

[kjw47]

Semantics and translation! That has been debunked over and over again over again over the the past 1700 years. Do you know the term Jesus used to refer to "God" in Aramaic? Abba - which means "Father". When Jesus was the cross, most early texts"A have him saying "Adonai" another word for Father or Elohim - meaning God.

And the primary reason Jesus taught to call God "Father" or "Abba/Adonai" - is because he was teaching them to use a more personal term of endearment instead of the more traditional "Elohim". Not the other way around. And attaching it to "heavenly" would have made it more appropriate when referring to God.

Jesus likely called Joseph "Abba" that's why he REPEATEDLY uses the term "heavenly Father" or "Father in Heaven". Had he not called Joseph "Abba" there wouldn't be a reason to use the term "Father in heaven". It's really that simple.

And for what it's worth, most Catholic priests are usually referred to as "Father Mike" or "Father Dan" etc. - which is already less formal - and clearly seen as simply a "title" - a VAST difference from saying "My Father in Heaven" or "Heavenly Father" - which clearly refers to God.

Jesus wasn't saying not to call a dad Father, He was saying not to call ones taking the lead in his religion-Father, they fathered 0 spiritual truths. God fathered 100% of all spiritual truth. That is what Jesus was saying. Twisting it into darkness gets one no where except unacceptable worship to the Father( John 4:22-24)

 

[BreezeWood]

(called such at least as early as 107 AD) ​

Jesus does not lie

the christian claims their church began over a century past the events of the 1st century and then claims it had anything to do w/ jesus ... as sad a commentary as there ever was one.

 

[Ace Nova]

Jesus wasn't saying not to call a dad Father, He was saying not to call ones taking the lead in his religion-Father, they fathered 0 spiritual truths. God fathered 100% of all spiritual truth. That is what Jesus was saying. Twisting it into darkness gets one no where except unacceptable worship to the Father( John 4:22-24)

No.

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

If you read that literally then you MUST include "dads" as Fathers as well.

The fact that you already acknowledge it can be used for "other men on Earth" validates my point. Period.

The word "Father" IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE can and does have multiple meanings and can be used to describe men as "Father" other than describing only God as "Father" - as you just confessed.

So that point is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and would win in any court in the United States.

Now if you stop being so stubborn and open up your mind and heart, I will explain the deeper and more Spiritual meaning of the phrase...

In the most FORMAL sense - during those times - the word "Father" was used to refer to the "Patriarchs of society", Elders, Prophets, The Law, and so forth.

When Jesus spoke those words he was telling them to no longer consider "The Patriarchs, the Elders, etc" as the "Be all, end all" to their faith. They were to be respected but his followers would need to follow his way which established their new "Father" in heaven. Their new "Father in Heaven" would be a combination of the Law, the Prophets AND the teachings of Jesus.

Thus "Fulfilling BUT NOT ABOLISHING THE LAW" To those that have ears, let them hear!

I promise you - this is EXACTLY what he meant. (Don't ask me how I know).

 

[hadit]

Human error. Paul had to correct Peter one time-Why? Human error. Plus in those days only error filled and altered trinity translation was available. All of creation sees the mass of confusion those translations have caused.

Listen to what you're claiming. You are claiming that the original apostles, who could read the Hebrew Scriptures, were wrong while your guys, who can't read the Hebrew Scriptures, are correct.

 

[kjw47]

No.

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

If you read that literally then you MUST include "dads" as Fathers as well.

The fact that you already acknowledge it can be used for "other men on Earth" validates my point. Period.

The word "Father" IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE can and does have multiple meanings and can be used to describe men as "Father" other than describing only God as "Father" - as you just confessed.

So that point is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and would win in any court in the United States.

Now if you stop being so stubborn and open up your mind and heart, I will explain the deeper and more Spiritual meaning of the phrase...

In the most FORMAL sense - during those times - the word "Father" was used to refer to the "Patriarchs of society", Elders, Prophets, The Law, and so forth.

When Jesus spoke those words he was telling them to no longer consider "The Patriarchs, the Elders, etc" as the "Be all, end all" to their faith. They were to be respected but his followers would need to follow his way which established their new "Father" in heaven. Their new "Father in Heaven" would be a combination of the Law, the Prophets AND the teachings of Jesus.

Thus "Fulfilling BUT NOT ABOLISHING THE LAW" To those that have ears, let them hear!

I promise you - this is EXACTLY what he meant. (Don't ask me how I know).

Reality--Dads fathered their children. Reality Spiritual leaders fathered 0 spiritual things.

 

[kjw47]

Listen to what you're claiming. You are claiming that the original apostles, who could read the Hebrew Scriptures, were wrong while your guys, who can't read the Hebrew Scriptures, are correct.

In the early days of The JW,s only altered, error filled trinity translations were available. You misunderstood.

 

[hadit]

In the early days of The JW,s only altered, error filled trinity translations were available. You misunderstood.

And I've shown you from your own brand-new rewritten Bible (that you finally had to produce because every time you'd rewrite the Bible, somebody would point out where it still said Jesus is God), STILL makes it clear that He is. You've been reduced to nothing more solid than, "It doesn't mean what it says", from YOUR translation.

Jesus said He would raise Himself from the dead. God raised Him from the dead.
God spoke of one of His titles. Jesus took that same title for Himself.
Only God can forgive sin and grant eternal life. Jesus can do both.

LOOK IN YOUR OWN TRANSLATION AND SEE IT TO BE TRUE. And if you want to deny it, you'd better have something better than, "Our own translation doesn't mean what it says".

 

[kjw47]

And I've shown you from your own brand-new rewritten Bible (that you finally had to produce because every time you'd rewrite the Bible, somebody would point out where it still said Jesus is God), STILL makes it clear that He is. You've been reduced to nothing more solid than, "It doesn't mean what it says", from YOUR translation.

Jesus said He would raise Himself from the dead. God raised Him from the dead.
God spoke of one of His titles. Jesus took that same title for Himself.
Only God can forgive sin and grant eternal life. Jesus can do both.

LOOK IN YOUR OWN TRANSLATION AND SEE IT TO BE TRUE. And if you want to deny it, you'd better have something better than, "Our own translation doesn't mean what it says".

I know 100% undeniable-Jesus leads the JW religion.

 

[hadit]

I know 100% undeniable-Jesus leads the JW religion.

How can you claim to follow Him when you deny what He said about Himself?

Did you look at your own translation to see what it says, and are you coming back with "Our own translation doesn't mean what it says"?

 

[kjw47]

How can you claim to follow Him when you deny what He said about Himself?

Did you look at your own translation to see what it says, and are you coming back with "Our own translation doesn't mean what it says"?

Satan altered translations removed Gods name against Gods will in over 7000 places--You were saying? You desire me to believe satan altered translations over the translators who have enough love and respect for Gods will over satans will to put his name back? While the ones mislead by satan altered translations condemned them for it. No ty.

 

[hadit]

Satan altered translations removed Gods name against Gods will in over 7000 places--You were saying? You desire me to believe satan altered translations over the translators who have enough love and respect for Gods will over satans will to put his name back? While the ones mislead by satan altered translations condemned them for it. No ty.

Why are you talking about your translation as if it is altered by Satan? Isn't that what you're saying about the others? I told you to look into your translation and see if what I've said is true. HAVE YOU DONE THAT?

 

[kjw47]

Why are you talking about your translation as if it is altered by Satan? Isn't that what you're saying about the others? I told you to look into your translation and see if what I've said is true. HAVE YOU DONE THAT?

I know 100% Jesus is with the JW religion. I don't listen to false reasonings by those in darkness using altered and error filled translations. Facts prove the JW,s correct on matters.

 

[hadit]

I know 100% Jesus is with the JW religion. I don't listen to false reasonings by those in darkness using altered and error filled translations. Facts prove the JW,s correct on matters.

That tells me that you refuse to actually read your own translation to honestly see what it says. Tell me, how can you put your faith in Jesus Christ to save your eternal soul if you also claim He doesn't have the power to forgive sin or grant eternal life?