Chinese State Run Media says China Ready to use Force Against US.

[Donald H]

Not really, because unlike China, both the US and USSR knew the limits they could push each other.

Can you explain why you think that? I don't see any reason why that could be true. Actually just the opposite with China's policy of peaceful relations with the rest of the world and friendly persuasion toward countries in which they have an interest. Nowhere in the world today is China involved in military aggression, as the US is or was in Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Panama, and over 30 others.

The Cold War was a tight-wire act by both sides. Cube was once firmly in the US camp, but over a decade it changed, and fell into that of the USSR. Finland was always edging towards the USSR, hence the term "FInlandization".

You have the order of events mixed up for Cuba. They had a successful revolution in which they escaped from under the evil Batista regime. Later they were assisted by the Soviets and even later demands of the US and the Soviet Union were exchanged in the Cuban missile crisis.

However, even before WWII the Chinese Nationalists (and their successors in Taipei) were firmly in the US camp. And China does not seem to get that trying to invade there would be like the US in the 1970s invading East Germany. That they are even talking like this simply shows to me that they are completely delusional, and are acting like they are some kind of "Master Race", as Italy-Japan-Germany thought in the late 1930's and early 1940s.

There's no indication that China is trying to invade Taiwan. There is ample evidence to say that China won't allow Taiwan to align with the US.

That is something that worries me, as even the Soviets and US during the darkest days of the Cold War were not talking like that.

Calling China delusional only lowers the level of discussion to being N.A.

Because both sides knew that was suicidal, so never did so. The current conditions with Russia and China are almost nothing like the Cold War, and much more like the days before WWII.

Again, you provide no explanation on why you would think that. My guess is that you're basing it on the fact that China and Russia are forming an alliance.

How will that lead to military aggression as opposed to peaceful cooperation by small countries that are up for grabs by both alliances?

 

[justoffal]

If it's not a military takeover of Taiwan then the US won't play a military part in it. I'm saying that China will reunite Taiwan to China by peaceful means. Only if Taiwan takes military action against China on US pushing and urging, will China react militarily.

There's always a possibility of the US using Taiwan as their proxy but that's unlikely with Taiwan and getting more unlikely in the future for superpowers to clash directly.

If the tactic works in the Ukraine, that could make a hot war a bit more likely.

I'm only telling you what I think will be the most probable outcome. But I think it's a good discussion to have. Too bad most of the others can't think outside their sandboxs.

Yes that does make a lot of sense and being the Ultimate pragmatists I would venture to guess that is exactly what China will do.
I know that China will not Sanction Russia but I'm not too sure that they are altogether pleased with Putin's choice either. Though assuredly it does advance them financially and gives the Yuan a starting block at the race for global reserve currency dominance that it did not have before.
Thanks for the good input...sometimes we get stuck in an either or thinking pattern that blinds us to the obvious alternatives.

JO

 

[justoffal]

Can you explain why you think that? I don't see any reason why that could be true. Actually just the opposite with China's policy of peaceful relations with the rest of the world and friendly persuasion toward countries in which they have an interest. Nowhere in the world today is China involved in military aggression, as the US is or was in Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Panama, and over 30 others.

You have the order of events mixed up for Cuba. They had a successful revolution in which they escaped from under the evil Batista regime. Later they were assisted by the Soviets and even later demands of the US and the Soviet Union were exchanged in the Cuban missile crisis.

There's no indication that China is trying to invade Taiwan. There is ample evidence to say that China won't allow Taiwan to align with the US.

Calling China delusional only lowers the level of discussion to being N.A.

Again, you provide no explanation on why you would think that. My guess is that you're basing it on the fact that China and Russia are forming an alliance.

How will that lead to military aggression as opposed to peaceful cooperation by small countries that are up for grabs by both alliances?

How will that lead to military aggression as opposed to peaceful cooperation by small countries that are up for grabs by both alliances?

This is a great point..... Now I have observed in the past that the ultimate economic bargaining chip above and beyond all other chips is actually the man hour. In this particular both China and India stand alone as giants of potential if only they learn how to use that potential. I find it fascinating that Xi has put in a lot of effort to normalize relations with India at this particular time. A financial alliance between China and India would pretty much muscle everyone else right out of the top seats with absolutely no way to compete frankly.
They both have manpower, intellect, and massive resources available to them. In that regard it would seem that the future of the international community is almost certainly going to be shaped from that area of the Globe. All of the contributing events point to it.
China's acquisition of nearly 30 percent of the worlds precious mineral rights for instance ( conservative estimate I'll bet its closer to half)....Their plan to continue building coal fired power plants around the world bringing cheap electricity to their allies and offering modernization in places where it is needed the most. Combined with the engineering prowess of India the duo could possibly ascend to world dominance simply by virtue of a tidal wave of successful economic initiatives....something far more powerful than any military weapon. In the mean time we will continue our noble quest to put skirts on men. Perhaps we will even send a cross dressed ambassador to our new global leaders several years hence just to see what the think of him/her/it.

 

[Donald H]

Yes that does make a lot of sense and being the Ultimate pragmatists I would venture to guess that is exactly what China will do.
I know that China will not Sanction Russia but I'm not too sure that they are altogether pleased with Putin's choice either. Though assuredly it does advance them financially and gives the Yuan a starting block at the race for global reserve currency dominance that it did not have before.
Thanks for the good input...sometimes we get stuck in an either or thinking pattern that blinds us to the obvious alternatives.

JO

I find the question on whether China approves of Russia's war in Ukraine very interesting.

The major consideration in my opinion would be if China is predicting success or failure for Russia.

It's far too big and important for China not being deeply concerned. But of course I say that under by belief that it is America's war against Russia and not the Ukraine that China would be concerned about.

Would China believe that Russia will succeed, whatever success could mean? And would China become a part of it on the same basis as Nato countries are a part.

In any case, I cautiously would suggest that the world has dodged the bullet agian and peace is looking obtainable.

 

[HenryBHough]

I could see China waging war against America if we suddenly aborted the experiment with Communism....as in the case of an actual American patriot winning the presidency, House and Senate.

The strike would come between the election and inauguration - the limited opportunity for guaranteed non-response. But certainly not before mid-November. The Chinese are not prone to destroying assets they have paid for.

 

[Donald H]

How will that lead to military aggression as opposed to peaceful cooperation by small countries that are up for grabs by both alliances?

This is a great point..... Now I have observed in the past that the ultimate economic bargaining chip above and beyond all other chips is actually the man hour. In this particular both China and India stand alone as giants of potential if only they learn how to use that potential. I find it fascinating that Xi has put in a lot of effort to normalize relations with India at this particular time. A financial alliance between China and India would pretty much muscle everyone else right out of the top seats with absolutely no way to compete frankly.

Yes, right in keeping with the pattern for China's tactics.

They both have manpower, intellect, and massive resources available to them. In that regard it would seem that the future of the international community is almost certainly going to be shaped from that area of the Globe. All of the contributing events point to it.
China's acquisition of nearly 30 percent of the worlds precious mineral rights for instance ( conservative estimate I'll bet its closer to half)....Their plan to continue building coal fired power plants around the world bringing cheap electricity to their allies and offering modernization in places where it is needed the most. Combined with the engineering prowess of India the duo could possible ascend to world dominance simply by virtue of a tidal wave of successful economic initiatives....something far more powerful than any military weapon.

Yes, I agree.
And then we can't forget the other country tha is the largest country in the world, that probably has the greatest remaining resourced in the world.

No wonder China is very interested in the outcome of the current war! It's a 'make or break' situation for both sides!

 

[eagle1462010]

I guess what I'm really wondering is how well an aircraft carrier can defend itself. Reading up on the stats of the new Chinese carrier killer one of its most dangerous characteristics is the fact that it can go stratosphere high and then turn over and come straight down with dead accuracy at extremely high speeds. That and the sheer size and weight of the projectile is supposed to add up to a one strike kill for an aircraft carrier. I don't know much about what an aircraft carrier has for self-defense.... Is it capable of stopping something like that? Is it capable of stopping half a dozen of those at the same time? If so then maybe it's all just bluster. However considering the fact that an aircraft carrier is probably the single most expensive piece of military equipment on the planet and can house as many as 5,000 or more of crew you have to wonder if it's worth that kind of a chance.

It has a full battlegroup. They don't deploy alone........Attack submarines are there too..........

Air support from all over the world............and it's OWN AIRFORCE..........It packs a punch......and the small boats have to get to it.......

And in War we are not gonna sit back and roll in.........the ports and aircraft of China would be hit first. Those boats have to survive to get out there to get a shot.

 

[eagle1462010]

While we're on the subject I did pick up some information from a swedish military rag on unmanned mini subs that Russia runs. They are nuclear capable and basically the sub itself is the weapon. Supposedly it can autonomously make its way across the ocean bottom very quietly, can sit still for long periods of time.... Jump back up off the ocean bottom and creep along until it reaches the shore of an enemy port. The article I was reading indicated that they could be fitted with as much as a 100 megaton charge. Good god man! Does Russia actually have weapons that powerful? I know the tsar bomba was a 100 megaton charge that was scaled back to 50. And that area is still unapproachable today 70 years later.

Apparently these things were built in Sweden who prides itself on being a global leader in military technology.

If just one of those managed to get through say to San Francisco and detonate at 100 megatons it would take out the entire West Coast in the next 36 hours just with the radiation cloud. This is why it is completely foolish to saber rattle. I'm sure we have similar things but I don't care what we have because it's not aimed at me.... I care about what the other guy has because it is aimed at me.

We have been Saber Rattling since WWII with them.................Unless they are MAD.........it's not going to happen. It's always been a MAD MAN would have to launch NUKES...........

They understand this as well...........They use it AS A SHIELD.

 

[justoffal]

We have been Saber Rattling since WWII with them.................Unless they are MAD.........it's not going to happen. It's always been a MAD MAN would have to launch NUKES...........

They understand this as well...........They use it AS A SHIELD.

Good post..

Jo

 

[frigidweirdo]

Chinese state-run media says Beijing ready to use force against US

A Chinese state-run media outlet has warned Washington that Beijing will not hesitate to strike US forces should they try to prevent China’s reunification with Taiwan, as promised recently by a top American official.

www.rt.com

This thread relates to US interference, or allegations of interference in Taiwan and so isn't being discussed elsewhere.
I interpret as a strong statement from China that was predictable.
Both America and China will likely have an opportunity to demonstrate their resolve.

I would only suggest that the decisions are most likely above Biden's ability and his pay grade, so to speak.

Both sides have reached the pinnacle of Cold War rhetoric that is equal to that of the previous Cold War.

China is just using words to try and get what it wants. It loves talking about "foreign interference" because it harks back to the bad old days when foreign countries went into China and did whatever they liked.

The reality is, after what they've seen in the Ukraine, they're probably less likely to go to war in Taiwan until they've reached a point where sanctions can't hurt them.

 

[justoffal]

China is just using words to try and get what it wants. It loves talking about "foreign interference" because it harks back to the bad old days when foreign countries went into China and did whatever they liked.

The reality is, after what they've seen in the Ukraine, they're probably less likely to go to war in Taiwan until they've reached a point where sanctions can't hurt them.

Hmmm.... interesting angle on it.
Yes....the money component is bound to be a factor in their decision.

Jo

 

[frigidweirdo]

Hmmm.... interesting angle on it.
Yes....the money component is bound to be a factor in their decision.

Jo

You look at how China has reacted to the Ukraine War, and you see that their main focus was to not end up with sanctions against them.