'Chemical weapons' found in Iraq

[Lefty Wilbury]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3386357.stm

'Chemical weapons' found in Iraq


Danish troops have found dozens of mortar shells in southern Iraq which could contain chemical weapons according to initial tests.

The 36 120mm mortar rounds appeared to have been buried for at least 10 years, the army said.

All showed traces of blister gases, the army said, a group of chemical compounds which include mustard gas.

US officials confirmed the apparent find and said the weapons were probably left over from the 1980-88 war on Iran.

Results of more extensive tests should be available in about two days, the Danes said on an official website quoted by the Reuters news agency.

The Danish troops, who serve with the US-led coalition in Iraq, will continue searches for any more weapons buried at the same site, north of Basra.

US military spokesman Brigadier-General Mark Kimmitt said of the shells: "Most were wrapped in plastic bags, and some were leaking."

"We're doing some preliminary tests... to be sure that if they do contain any kind of blistering agent they will be disposed of," he said.

The former regime of Saddam Hussein used blister agents against Iranian soldiers during the Iran-Iraq war.

Chemical weapons were also used to kill about 5,000 Kurds in the northern city of Halabja in 1988.

War-time use

Before the US-led war to overthrow Saddam Hussein, Iraq said it had destroyed all its chemical weapons, but the alleged continuing threat from weapons of mass destruction were cited by the US and UK leaders as a key reason for the war.

But a nine-month search for stockpiles of chemical, biological or nuclear arms has found no proof of an ongoing weapons programme which could have been used against coalition forces.

On Thursday, a 400-strong team of weapons disposal experts was withdrawn from Iraq but US administration officials insisted their job had been completed.

Blister agents, such as mustard gas, were developed and first used by the Germans in World War I. Italy and Egypt have also used such chemical weapons against enemies.

The agents burn skin, eyes and lungs as they are absorbed, causing large blisters on skin and inside lungs and windpipes.

Effects are delayed for up to 12 hours after exposure, which can allow the agent to cause severe damage before it is detected.

 

[DKSuddeth]

it should say 'possible'. How many times have we heard the find announcement only to learn later that it really wasn't?

I'm reserving judgement til final analysis is in.

 

[Annie]

it should say 'possible'. How many times have we heard the find announcement only to learn later that it really wasn't?

by DK

and if found 'reliable' will the excuse be that there were so small a number?

 

[wonderwench]

I suspect that the excuse from people who don't want to believe will be that the weapons have been buried for 10 years.

 

[Annie]

It could be the 'mother of all bombs,' yet the left would find a way to discount.

Now on the other hand, regardless of who wins in 2004, though I'm more than a bit confident it will be Bush/GOP, the WOT will not end within term, how do we define it?

 

[wonderwench]

The WOT is a containment effort to minimize the threat of terrorism by dismantling the logistical and financial support network. As long as Wahabbism is practised, there will be some fanatical offshoots who will pursue a jihad against the West.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Kathianne
by DK

and if found 'reliable' will the excuse be that there were so small a number?

it didn't sound like there was a small number to me, however, if they WERE remnants of the first iraq war, how effective could they have been? Someone had some info on the halflife of these things somewhere. regardless, this would be definite proof, in my eyes, that he was not destroying weapons, but in fact hiding them.

 

[wonderwench]

Good for you DK! If these do contain blister gas, they are proof.

 

[lilcountriegal]

regardless, this would be definite proof, in my eyes, that he was not destroying weapons, but in fact hiding them.

Not that it was lacking previously, but my respect for you just shot up ten-fold, DK.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
it didn't sound like there was a small number to me, however, if they WERE remnants of the first iraq war, how effective could they have been? Someone had some info on the halflife of these things somewhere. regardless, this would be definite proof, in my eyes, that he was not destroying weapons, but in fact hiding them.

Here's some info on mustard gas and its properties. It appears that as long as you keep it dry, it will not decay until you need it.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/mustardg.htm

 

[jimnyc]

Appears the field tests were false, no chemicals.

Tests Show No Agent in Iraq Mortar Shells

CAMP EDEN, Iraq - U.S. tests on mortar shells found in Iraq and suspected of containing blister agents have turned up negative, though further tests will be conducted, a Danish army spokesman said Wednesday.

The 36 shells, discovered last week by Danish troops, are believed to be from the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Four initial tests by British and Danish experts came up positive for blister agents, Danish spokesman, Capt. Kim Vibe Michelsen, told The Associated Press.

But later tests by U.S. experts from the Iraq Survey Group on five of the shells have shown no trace of chemical weapons, the Danish military said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ap/20040114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_mortar_shells

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAV23VPFPD.html

Danes Say Tests on Suspect Mortar Shells Inconclusive
By Matthew Rosenberg Associated Press Writer
Published: Jan 14, 2004


CAMP EDEN, Iraq (AP) - U.S. tests on mortar shells found in Iraq and suspected of containing blister agents have turned up negative, though further tests will be conducted, a Danish army spokesman said Wednesday.

The 36 shells, discovered last week by Danish troops, are believed to be from the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Four initial tests by British and Danish experts came up positive for blister agents, Danish spokesman, Capt. Kim Vibe Michelsen, told The Associated Press.

But later tests by U.S. experts from the Iraq Survey Group on five of the shells have shown no trace of chemical weapons, the Danish military said.

However, more tests are needed, and the results will be sent to the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory, the military said in a statement.

A U.S. official said the tests suggest the munitions may not contain blister agents, as initial field tests had indicated.

The official, speaking on condition of anonimity, said that the test results aren't definitive, but "it seems to be turning away from being a blister agent." The official said there are chemicals associated with certain munitions, such as phospohrous, that can produce false positives.

Initial tests by troops in the field are designed to favor a positive reading, erring on the side of caution to protect soldiers. More sophisticated tests are often necessary.

"The Iraqi Survey Group has never encountered this type of shells before," the Danish military said. "They will therefore take a shell for closer investigation," including a look into why the four initial tests gave a positive result.

Before invading Iraq, the United States said Saddam Hussein's regime had stockpiles of mustard gas, a World War I-era blister agent that is stored in liquid form. The chemical burns skin, eyes and lungs.

U.S. intelligence officials also claimed Iraq had failed to destroy stocks of sarin, cyclosarin and VX in violation of U.N. resolutions. So far, however, no such materials have been found nine months after the collapse of Saddam's regime.

The Danish troops initially found 36 shells, exposed by rain, in the ground outside a village near Qurnah on Friday. The Danish army's Camp Eden is near Qurnah.

"This was a stash. They were stacked and ordered and wrapped in plastic," Michelsen said, adding they must have been buried 10 or more years ago.

Michelsen said the 120mm shells, which have no markings indicating the country of manufacture, "don't look like any known" mortars in the Iraqi arsenal.

Michelsen said the Danes have unearthed 50 shells so far and at least 50 more are believed still buried. Villagers told the troops that they had found about 400 or more some years ago and threw them in the Tigris River, Michelsen said.

The flat, muddy terrain where they were found was the scene of intense fighting during the Iran-Iraq war. The villagers told the Danes that one bloody battle was fought in the area in 1984 for seven days.

The villagers said they fled the area and returned after the battle to find all their cattle dead and the area littered with human bodies, Michelsen said. He quoted the villagers as saying that none of the dead bore gunshot wounds, but all were bleeding from the mouth and nose.

"This is a clear indication of chemical weapons use," he said.

He said the villagers have also spoken of people coughing blood, and livestock getting sick and bleeding from the mouth. But the time frame for the reported sickness is not clear.

Since the war ended last year, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.

Other discoveries early in the U.S.-led occupation turned out to be old caches that already had been tagged by U.N. inspectors and were scheduled for destruction.

AP-ES-01-14-04 1316EST

 

[DKSuddeth]

It would have been nice to have this pan out and be proven true.

That way we could all just accept it and keep moving forward.

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
It would have been nice to have this pan out and be proven true.

That way we could all just accept it and keep moving forward.

it still might. one test said yes one said no. the thrid test will detrimine it either way.

 

[fort_ludios]

Originally posted by wonderwench
I suspect that the excuse from people who don't want to believe will be that the weapons have been buried for 10 years.

Exactly! They were burried since 10 years, so I do not see what imminent threat it posed in regards to Bush's reasons to invade Iraq. More over, these missing shells WERE REPORTED TO THE UN BY BAGHDAD, as "missing"! And that was the case, else Saddam would have used them.

PROOF THE UN KNEW ABOUT THOSE MISSING SHELLS AS REPORTED, AND THAT UN INSPECTORS WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY FIND THEM IF RESOLUTION 1441 WOULD HAVE BEEN USED (instead of invasion)!!!
http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/sres98-920.htm

29. During the reporting period, some progress was achieved. Iraq provided documents and clarifications on a number of issues, which the Commission sought to verify. The status of outstanding issues is given below:

(a) Material balance of chemical munitions

- 155 mm shells filled with mustard. Iraq declared that 550 shells filled with mustard had been lost shortly after the Gulf war. To date, no evidence of the missing munitions has been found. A dozen mustard-filled shells were recovered at a former chemical weapons storage facility in the period 1997-1998. The chemical sampling of these munitions in April 1998 revealed that the mustard was still of the highest quality. After seven years, the purity of mustard ranged between 94 per cent and 97 per cent. Iraq still has to account for the missing shells and to provide verifiable evidence of their disposition. In July 1998, Iraq promised to provide clarifications on this matter. To date, only preliminary information has been provided by Iraq on its continuing internal investigation;

 

[bamthin]

Danish Army: No Chemicals on Iraq Mortar Shells

Sunday, January 18, 2004



COPENHAGEN, Denmark — An Idaho (search) lab has released conclusive results showing 36 mortar shells recently unearthed in southern Iraq (search) contained no chemical warfare agent, the Danish army said Sunday.

Initial examinations by Danish and British troops had indicated a blister agent (search) was in the shells, which apparently date to the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s. The shells were found north of Basra on Jan. 9.

But tests by the U.S. Department of Energy's National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory in Idaho came back negative, the Danish Army Operational Command said in a statement. The results confirmed earlier findings by a U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group that was dispatched to the site in southern Iraq after the shells were found.

The 120mm shells, with no markings of origin, were found by Danish engineers and two Icelandic de-miners who were tipped off by local residents.


LINK


-Bam

 

[Annie]

You gonna trust the government with something like that????

(I have my tinfoil on...)

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Kathianne
You gonna trust the government with something like that????

(I have my tinfoil on...)

I'm confused, are you distrusting the danish government, or ours?

 

[Annie]

Just figured Bam would have a hard time believing anything coming out of US government.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Just figured Bam would have a hard time believing anything coming out of US government.

oh. gotcha.

back to the issue though, i'm rather dissapointed with it. I'd have switched sides quickly if it had been proven.

maybe next find....