Catholic Church Required Rebaptism On A Technicality!

[JimofPennsylvan]

The "formula error on baptism" controversy in the Catholic Church highlights and underscores why there is a disconnect between a large percentage of Catholic faithful and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. This controversy involves that some deacons and priests when baptizing a person into the Catholic Church used the wrong words, the minister is supposed to use the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" while pouring or the like water on the person being baptized. The error made by the minister in the respective cases is he used the word "We baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"; to reiterate the minister used the words "we" instead of "I". The hierarchy of the Catholic Church ruled that all those baptisms where the wrong word was used are invalid meaning that the person has to be re-baptized to be a legitimate member of the Catholic Church. For one deacon that made this word error he conducted around eight hundred baptisms so all these people need to get rebaptized. It even gets crazier one priest who was wrongly baptized when he was a baby not only had to be rebaptized but he also had to re-receive the sacrament of Holy Orders (reordained a priest) plus all the couple this priest married had to re-receive the sacrament of marriage. It is really silly here because taking this to its logical conclusions the hierarchy of the Catholic Churches viewpoint means that for all the Masses that priest said where he was in a not actually in a baptized state all the communion wafers created during those Masses were not actually the body of Christ and it is even more serious for all the confessions that priest heard during his being in a invalid priestly state were not valid confessions meaning the penitents were not forgiven their sins, if they confessed mortal sins during their confession they still have those mortal sins on their soul.

The essence of the problem here is that many of the hierarchy of the Catholic Faith don't know Jesus, to them following Jesus is all about signing onto his Churches dogma and following all his Churches rules. To a large percentage of Catholics that are turned off by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church knowing Jesus is the important thing that is the top priority not all their institutional theology and rules. To these regular people Catholics Jesus is a "good" person. A good person looks at an issue and ask what is this all about? Baptism is about admission of the person into the spiritual church of Jesus Christ where the person admitted then has the graces flowing from God available to him or her. It is not a lawyerlike endeavor where the words hold the importance, the reality of the admission holds the importance. So a good person would make the standard be as long as the person doing the baptizing; one, intended for there to be a baptism, two, took an action which conveyed that intent and third, the prior two factors were reasonable under the circumstances then you have a valid baptism. Furthermore, the orthodoxy zealots behind this harsh Church hierarchy decision probably have this decision not fully meshing with the entirety of the Catholic Churches theology because the Catholic Church recognizes the concept of Baptism of desire which a fair person would clearly have to say lies here because a priest before he becomes a priest spends six years in a seminary before being ordained clearly that type of commitment has to establish a baptism of desire, so therefore the candidate for priesthood meets the baptism requirement for ordination!

The orthodoxy zealots screw up a lot of aspects of life of Catholics in the Catholic Church. It used to be widespread in the Catholic Church where parishes had perpetual adoration where parishes had a little Chapel in the parish that was open to the public 24 hrs per day/7 days per week where the eucharist was exposed in a monstrous so people could come in and visit Jesus in the eucharist and thereby receive the spiritual solace and grace from such a visit. Then around fifteen years ago the orthodoxy zealots began their clamoring that this is disrespectful and offensive to Jesus because having the eucharist exposed like this out in public view for this length of time of 24/7 results in long periods of time where no person is present in the Chapel to adore the eucharistic Jesus so it is offensive and disrespectful to the second person God, Jesus Christ. As a result many parishes permanently closed their eucharistic adoration chapel, some parishes only have eucharistic adoration one day a week with limited hours and some parishes have no eucharistic adoration now! These orthodoxy zealots don't really know Jesus or they never would have killed this channel for Jesus to connect and enter into a greater relationship with people. Regular people know that Jesus is a reasonable person that understands that people in a parish have a multitude of responsibilities and so often cannot visit the adoration chapel but Jesus like any good person wouldn't mind waiting for a friend. Many Catholics wonder and fret why membership in the Catholic Church is down and dwindling; one clear reason is that the Catholic Church lets the orthodoxy zealots control everything in the Church!

 

[Donald H]

A very inconvenient technicality that the Catholic church has failed to interpret in their best interests!

It's going to keep the Catholics busy for the next 100 years or more trying to rescue all those good people who are already smoldering!

Good grief, what next?

 

[Uranus]

You have to say I because Jesus is supposedly baptizing, but then it's the priest plus Jesus so using the word we is only honest. I'm glad my religion is not difficult.

 

[ding]

I'm glad my religion is not difficult.

Which religion would that be?

 

[hobelim]

You have to say I because Jesus is supposedly baptizing, but then it's the priest plus Jesus so using the word we is only honest. I'm glad my religion is not difficult.

lol....According to the gospels Jesus never baptized anyone.

When Jesus was talking to the man possessed by an unclean spirit, identified as legion, who spoke in the plural, "we are many." it shows that it really does matter.

Your religion is really not that difficult as long as you don't think very deeply about it.

 

[Cougarbear]

The "formula error on baptism" controversy in the Catholic Church highlights and underscores why there is a disconnect between a large percentage of Catholic faithful and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. This controversy involves that some deacons and priests when baptizing a person into the Catholic Church used the wrong words, the minister is supposed to use the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" while pouring or the like water on the person being baptized. The error made by the minister in the respective cases is he used the word "We baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"; to reiterate the minister used the words "we" instead of "I". The hierarchy of the Catholic Church ruled that all those baptisms where the wrong word was used are invalid meaning that the person has to be re-baptized to be a legitimate member of the Catholic Church. For one deacon that made this word error he conducted around eight hundred baptisms so all these people need to get rebaptized. It even gets crazier one priest who was wrongly baptized when he was a baby not only had to be rebaptized but he also had to re-receive the sacrament of Holy Orders (reordained a priest) plus all the couple this priest married had to re-receive the sacrament of marriage. It is really silly here because taking this to its logical conclusions the hierarchy of the Catholic Churches viewpoint means that for all the Masses that priest said where he was in a not actually in a baptized state all the communion wafers created during those Masses were not actually the body of Christ and it is even more serious for all the confessions that priest heard during his being in a invalid priestly state were not valid confessions meaning the penitents were not forgiven their sins, if they confessed mortal sins during their confession they still have those mortal sins on their soul.

The essence of the problem here is that many of the hierarchy of the Catholic Faith don't know Jesus, to them following Jesus is all about signing onto his Churches dogma and following all his Churches rules. To a large percentage of Catholics that are turned off by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church knowing Jesus is the important thing that is the top priority not all their institutional theology and rules. To these regular people Catholics Jesus is a "good" person. A good person looks at an issue and ask what is this all about? Baptism is about admission of the person into the spiritual church of Jesus Christ where the person admitted then has the graces flowing from God available to him or her. It is not a lawyerlike endeavor where the words hold the importance, the reality of the admission holds the importance. So a good person would make the standard be as long as the person doing the baptizing; one, intended for there to be a baptism, two, took an action which conveyed that intent and third, the prior two factors were reasonable under the circumstances then you have a valid baptism. Furthermore, the orthodoxy zealots behind this harsh Church hierarchy decision probably have this decision not fully meshing with the entirety of the Catholic Churches theology because the Catholic Church recognizes the concept of Baptism of desire which a fair person would clearly have to say lies here because a priest before he becomes a priest spends six years in a seminary before being ordained clearly that type of commitment has to establish a baptism of desire, so therefore the candidate for priesthood meets the baptism requirement for ordination!

The orthodoxy zealots screw up a lot of aspects of life of Catholics in the Catholic Church. It used to be widespread in the Catholic Church where parishes had perpetual adoration where parishes had a little Chapel in the parish that was open to the public 24 hrs per day/7 days per week where the eucharist was exposed in a monstrous so people could come in and visit Jesus in the eucharist and thereby receive the spiritual solace and grace from such a visit. Then around fifteen years ago the orthodoxy zealots began their clamoring that this is disrespectful and offensive to Jesus because having the eucharist exposed like this out in public view for this length of time of 24/7 results in long periods of time where no person is present in the Chapel to adore the eucharistic Jesus so it is offensive and disrespectful to the second person God, Jesus Christ. As a result many parishes permanently closed their eucharistic adoration chapel, some parishes only have eucharistic adoration one day a week with limited hours and some parishes have no eucharistic adoration now! These orthodoxy zealots don't really know Jesus or they never would have killed this channel for Jesus to connect and enter into a greater relationship with people. Regular people know that Jesus is a reasonable person that understands that people in a parish have a multitude of responsibilities and so often cannot visit the adoration chapel but Jesus like any good person wouldn't mind waiting for a friend. Many Catholics wonder and fret why membership in the Catholic Church is down and dwindling; one clear reason is that the Catholic Church lets the orthodoxy zealots control everything in the Church!

While it seems a bit overwhelming to have to do all the ordinances over again, I understand the situation clearly. Ordinance comes from the word "Order." There must be a certain orderly step-by-step administration of ordinances. If a church believes that some ordinances must be said with certain words and in proper order, then the words are important as the ordinance itself.
Now, if we take the priest that said the baptism incorrectly, that needed to be caught when the baptism was done. If no one catches the error, it's deemed done properly and there is no reason to re-do the baptism or any other ordinance. In the final judgment, God will decide and most likely in favor of the individual baptized.

So, why do some churches have set prayers for ordinances? Because it separates them from other Churches. As with the Catholic Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also has set prayers for baptism, the sacraments and Temple ordinances as well. The Temple ordinances include signs and tokens that must be said correctly in the Temple and also when we are resurrected and judged to be in the highest degree of Glory in Heaven, Celestial Glory in order to enter. No frauds allowed...

We must always keep in mind that we are to do as God commands. But, part of that is to also keep the spirit of the law along with the letter of the law. This way, the mess the Catholic Church tried to clean up wouldn't have grown to enormous challenges in which probably never completed.

 

[Blackrook]

I note you have not provided a link to prove any of this is true.

 

[norwegen]

Water baptism is nice and all, but is it necessary? It certainly can't be worth this kind of turbulence.

Water baptism was not Jesus' baptism. In fact, Jesus expressly stated that water baptism was John’s baptism (Acts 1:5).

John the Baptist baptized his disciples in water, which would have made Jesus one of his disciples. But baptism elsewhere in the New Testament does not assume water baptism. Water did not change anyone’s condition, and it was not the means by which to find God’s kingdom. That power resided in spiritual baptism. In one Spirit the saints were baptized into one body, Paul taught (1 Cor 12:13). Water baptism did not do that. In contrast to John’s baptism, Jesus taught baptism in the Holy Spirit. Jesus was fulfilling a spiritual baptism in a spiritual kingdom, actually making John the Baptist his disciple.