Cassius Clay An Icon?

No need to visit Houston. The Vietnamese took over the entire East side of New Orleans, which then became a gun and knife club.The neighborhood grew so dangerous that my wife moved her first husband's casket to the West side, just to avoid going over there. The largest shopping mall in New Orleans had to shut down and was demolished because of gang activity. So did a brand new amusement park on the east side. I don't really blame them that much. They learned everything they knew about violence and guns and drugs from us.

You're not too bright are you? I was referring to the parents of those kids you claim are so nasty. I wonder how long you'd have lasted in Saigon if you'd been transplanted into an alien culture.

Oh, I am quite familiar with the parents as well. They moved south of New Orleans and completely took over the fishing industry from the cajuns. They are good people, although i have never understood why the Right didn't vilify them for taking over an entire American industry.
 
So why do you call yourself a "Vietnam ERA" Veteran when you never got within an ocean of the place?
Mainly because I am a VNV ...... :cool:

That being said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out our participation in the conflict was misguided and ultimately futile.

We accomplished nothing; and only have 58,000+ dead American's to show for our effort. ....... :cry:
 
Another Conservative crapping on another dead black man.

How very unoriginal.

This has nothing to do with him being a conservative or Ali being a black man.

Whether I agree with the OP or not, I think your comments says nothing true except to speak very poorly or yourself.
 
I've never called him "Ali" and never will. He says that Clay was his "slave name" which must have made his parents bust with pride. :rolleyes-41: What he was and wasn't carry equal weight. He was a great fighter, a fighter like the world had never seen before. And he was a yellow, draft-dodging coward who we may forget got somebody else sent to Vietnam in his place. Was he the greatest ever? Who knows....many think Rocky Marciano would have knocked his block off . His claim to fame was most of the white world wanted to see him get his block knocked off to shut his mouth whether we admit it or not.

Was he sane? Hard to say....He threw his Olympic gold medal into a river because somebody called him a "n1gger". He converted to islam and devoted himself to Elijah Muhammed, the man who had Malcolm X assassinated and despised the white man. And took a princely sum of Clay's fight purses. And somehow, unlike other traitors, never had to serve a prison sentence for refusing the step forward to serve the country that made him rich and famous.

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I saw Clay once here in Phoenix back in 1976. Drove past some mosque downtown in my white Coup deVille and there he was outside with a bunch of little muslims wearing blue suits, standing at attention. We made eye-contact briefly. He was bigger than I'd suspected having only seen him on TV....I wondered if I could boot him in the chest before he landed a punch on me was one recollection of that moment. He may have been a muslim but he still appreciated a fine Cadillac was the other.

Larry Holmes gave him the beating he'd had coming for his whole life and gave him the brain damage that finally shut his mouth. While I took no pleasure in seeing him turned into a vegetable, it didn't make me sad either because I had no respect for him.....none. Was he an icon?....for what? :eusa_eh:
You could see at the Holmes fight that Cassius had no muscle tone. He was just a punching bag. A bit flabby.

One might think that a ref would stop the fight when CC was no longer keeping his arms up to protect his vital organs, but that was sort of his style of boxing later in his career. He would keep his arms low to make the opponent throw a punch and let down their guard.
 
No Tom, your boot to the chest wouldnt have stopped him from making you look like a little girl but hey, you can always live vicariously through Holmes for lack of your own ring greatness.
 
I've never called him "Ali" and never will. He says that Clay was his "slave name" which must have made his parents bust with pride. :rolleyes-41: What he was and wasn't carry equal weight. He was a great fighter, a fighter like the world had never seen before. And he was a yellow, draft-dodging coward who we may forget got somebody else sent to Vietnam in his place. Was he the greatest ever? Who knows....many think Rocky Marciano would have knocked his block off . His claim to fame was most of the white world wanted to see him get his block knocked off to shut his mouth whether we admit it or not.

Was he sane? Hard to say....He threw his Olympic gold medal into a river because somebody called him a "n1gger". He converted to islam and devoted himself to Elijah Muhammed, the man who had Malcolm X assassinated and despised the white man. And took a princely sum of Clay's fight purses. And somehow, unlike other traitors, never had to serve a prison sentence for refusing the step forward to serve the country that made him rich and famous.

image053.jpg


I saw Clay once here in Phoenix back in 1976. Drove past some mosque downtown in my white Coup deVille and there he was outside with a bunch of little muslims wearing blue suits, standing at attention. We made eye-contact briefly. He was bigger than I'd suspected having only seen him on TV....I wondered if I could boot him in the chest before he landed a punch on me was one recollection of that moment. He may have been a muslim but he still appreciated a fine Cadillac was the other.

Larry Holmes gave him the beating he'd had coming for his whole life and gave him the brain damage that finally shut his mouth. While I took no pleasure in seeing him turned into a vegetable, it didn't make me sad either because I had no respect for him.....none. Was he an icon?....for what? :eusa_eh:
Ali was a great ambassador to the world. He made a difference in many lives for the better.

Ali was as great of a fighter as there ever was. Not sure why you resent that about him or try to make it seem like he was not? His losses hardly tarnish the incredible talent he was. No, Marciano would not have beat him (imo), but then, those are two different eras and unfair to compare.

Ali did not hate or speak against Christianity or Jews or even atheists. Yes, he was a devout muslim, but he sought peace not war. The fact he avoided the Vietnam War I do not hold against him --- because he was not a coward, he was a very sincere and legitimate conscientious objector. He did not put on that persona just to get out of serving. And he did get punished for it, far more than just about anyone else. Three years of banishment from his profession. I also do not see where other luminaries who avoided the draft via various means have ever been vilified or even called out on it? Just Ali.

Even though Islam is maligned, it is not without some moral truths. If Ali lived his faith with goodness in mind and practiced charity and kindness to all others, I do not see the one true God being too harsh against this man. (imo)
 
when Ali fought holmes he was 38....you could have probably beat him...if he was 10 years younger it probably would have been a different story or at least larry's age at the time....

Clay went in the ring with Holmes because the leaches that were his entourage got most of his money over the years. Larry Holmes hated Clay and could have taken him out in the second or third round...but didn't to punish him. Kenny Norton whipped his ass too as did Frazier and so would have George Foreman if his water bottle hadn't been laced with a sedative in Zaire.
you sound like a guy who hated Ali....Ali beat Frazier twice,the 3rd time Frazier took a beating....and he beat Norton twice....and formans water bottle was drugged?.....Ali outsmarted the guy and made him look bad,i dont blame George for saying that.... and like i said,if Ali wasnt 38 when he fought the much younger holmes there probably would have been a different outcome.....but thats the fight game....
 
I've never called him "Ali" and never will. He says that Clay was his "slave name" which must have made his parents bust with pride. :rolleyes-41:

It refers to being named after, through his father Cassius Sr., a white man -- although ironically, a noted abolitionist. In the big picture it refers to Africans, as a race, having their heritage taken away from them. Kind of like you just had your own credibility taken away, except with Africans it was involuntary.


And he was a yellow, draft-dodging coward who we may forget got somebody else sent to Vietnam in his place.

You spelled "he was a principled pacifist who stood up for his own principles at the time when he stood to lose the most by doing it" wrong. And it was the government, not Ali, who got people sent to Vietnam. There's no way to spin that.


His claim to fame was most of the white world wanted to see him get his block knocked off to shut his mouth whether we admit it or not.

Fantasy projection. Speak for yourself.

What a fucking loser OP.
 
Poor Tom. About the only one left in the world who sees Vietnam as a noble cause, instead of a path for political opportunists bent on clinging to power at the cost of millions of deaths. Hell, we even had to support the assassination of Diem, our own chosen corrupt head of state.....

There's still thousands of us who know what Vietnam was...you don't so don't pretend you do.

I think most of us understand the last legit defense based deployment of US forces was WWII.
 
Another Conservative crapping on another dead black man.

How very unoriginal.

This has nothing to do with him being a conservative or Ali being a black man.

Whether I agree with the OP or not, I think your comments says nothing true except to speak very poorly or yourself.

Okay Ivan....now go have a nice bowl of borscht and then get yourself waxed.
 
No Tom, your boot to the chest wouldnt have stopped him from making you look like a little girl but hey, you can always live vicariously through Holmes for lack of your own ring greatness.

My mai-geri went through 3 inches of pine at the time...far more than a sternum can stop. Nothing "vicarious" about it, fool.
 
And he was a yellow, draft-dodging coward who we may forget got somebody else sent to Vietnam in his place.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Horse shit. What he did took a tremendous amount of courage, standing up to an imperialist government who was enslaving Americans into a war we had no business being in, sending them into a meat grinder to be killed or maimed just to satisfy the personal ambitions of politicians.
 
you sound like a guy who hated Ali....Ali beat Frazier twice,the 3rd time Frazier took a beating....and he beat Norton twice....and formans water bottle was drugged?.....Ali outsmarted the guy and made him look bad,i dont blame George for saying that.... and like i said,if Ali wasnt 38 when he fought the much younger holmes there probably would have been a different outcome.....but thats the fight game....

Gee, you picked up on the fact I had no respect for the draft-dodging coward? how perceptive! He lost both fights to Kenny Norton....any writer at those fights would tell you that. And who gives a shit how old he was for Holmes...he'd made himself believe he needed the money to take a beating and got one. Your hero was a liar...to you and himself.
 
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Horse shit. What he did took a tremendous amount of courage, standing up to an imperialist government who was enslaving Americans into a war we had no business being in, sending them into a meat grinder to be killed or maimed just to satisfy the personal ambitions of politicians.

Uh huh....well, that's an easy position to take since you were never called on to make the choice of fighting for your country or being a coward. "Hypocrite judgements after the fact, the name of the game is to be hit and hit back." -Warren Zevon-
 

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