Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[Toddsterpatriot]

I tend to think the Trabant was the better car.

Yeah, that's a deep thought.

It lasted pretty much forever and was very inexpensive.

And only a 10 year waiting list.

You do realize the flying car on "Harry Potter" is a Trabant?

You do realize that is fiction? Just like "successful commie country" is fiction.

The GDP is not necessarily the proper goal of any country,

Sounds like something a shithole commie country would say.
One that was really bad at allocating resources.

but the USSR had a very hard climate and resources to deal with.

Poor Russia, largest country in the world.

Chernobyl was a combination of being cheap so using graphite moderator instead of heavy water, and and not keeping staff up to training.

And no containment building.
Thank goodness they didn't need to worry about making a profit......DURR

The USSR likely had the greatest advancement of any country, from feudal state to world leader in a couple of decades.

And all they needed was 30 million dead.....

 

[Rigby5]

Yeah, that's a deep thought.

It lasted pretty much forever and was very inexpensive.

And only a 10 year waiting list.

You do realize the flying car on "Harry Potter" is a Trabant?

You do realize that is fiction? Just like "successful commie country" is fiction.

The GDP is not necessarily the proper goal of any country,

Sounds like something a shithole commie country would say.
One that was really bad at allocating resources.

but the USSR had a very hard climate and resources to deal with.

Poor Russia, largest country in the world.

Chernobyl was a combination of being cheap so using graphite moderator instead of heavy water, and and not keeping staff up to training.

And no containment building.
Thank goodness they didn't need to worry about making a profit......DURR

The USSR likely had the greatest advancement of any country, from feudal state to world leader in a couple of decades.

And all they needed was 30 million dead.....

Thirty million dead was what the USSR lost in WWII. They started with about 100 million population. So I am doubtful of your number.
I read the famine of 1932 killed about 5 million. But the USSR is not communism, but state capitalism.
The farmers knew better, but Lyseko was in charge of the farms, which is not how communism works. Communism can't be centralized.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thirty million dead was what the USSR lost in WWII.

I seem to remember them losing that many due to their commie masters.

They started with about 100 million population.

In what year?

I read the famine of 1932 killed about 5 million. But the USSR is not communism, but state capitalism.

A commie failure by any other name.

 

[georgephillip]

What we have in the U.S. these days is State Sponsored Corporatist Authoritarianism. This is what is destroying our Liberty, including the remnants of our Republic (the U.S. is a Republic, not a (mob-rule) Democracy).

One big part of that authoritarianism you're so rightly concerned about (imho) is becoming known as surveillance capitalism:

Harvard professor says surveillance capitalism is undermining democracy

"I define surveillance capitalism as the unilateral claiming of private human experience as free raw material for translation into behavioral data.

"These data are then computed and packaged as prediction products and sold into behavioral futures markets — business customers with a commercial interest in knowing what we will do now, soon, and later.

"It was Google that first learned how to capture surplus behavioral data, more than what they needed for services, and used it to compute prediction products that they could sell to their business customers, in this case advertisers."

"Behavioral futures markets" aren't being designed to advance liberty, democracy, or a republican form of government.

 

[boedicca]

One big part of that authoritarianism you're so rightly concerned about (imho) is becoming known as surveillance capitalism:

Harvard professor says surveillance capitalism is undermining democracy

"I define surveillance capitalism as the unilateral claiming of private human experience as free raw material for translation into behavioral data.

"These data are then computed and packaged as prediction products and sold into behavioral futures markets — business customers with a commercial interest in knowing what we will do now, soon, and later.

"It was Google that first learned how to capture surplus behavioral data, more than what they needed for services, and used it to compute prediction products that they could sell to their business customers, in this case advertisers."

"Behavioral futures markets" aren't being designed to advance liberty, democracy, or a republican form of government.

Yes, I've read Zuboff's book and have seen her interviewed a few times. What she has warned us about is getting worse.

 

[georgephillip]

How does any economy grow as fast as exponential debt?

Who said it does? Or that it must?

Economies that can't grow fast enough to pay their debts don't survive without government welfare.

Some follow-up notes on Thomas Piketty's "Capital in the 21st Century"

 

[georgephillip]

Now, what does an economy borrow from?

Is it the economy? LOL!

Is it rich people the government borrows from instead of taxing their private wealth?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Economies that can't grow fast enough to pay their debts don't survive without government welfare.

You never explained, what does an economy borrow from?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Is it rich people the government borrows from instead of taxing their private wealth?

Why are you conflating "government debt" with "economy debt"?
Will the government be unable to repay? Why?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Under capitalism workers are forced to sell their labor or starve; it's hard to see any freedom in that.

Yes that is true. The fact is all humans ( or any other organism ) must work or starve.

Capitalism gives you the freedom to work OR starve. Collectivists systems enslave you to work AND starve.

 

[dblack]

Sitting at core of the socialist mindset is a fixation on democracy - the idea that anything and everything should be decided by majority rule. That's my main beef with socialism.

In my view, democracy is a terrible way to make decisions. It should be our last resort, not our first choice.

 

[kaz]

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/fil...-_is_capitalism_compatible_with_democracy.pdf

"Capitalism and democracy follow different logics: unequally distributed property rights on the one hand, equal civic and political rights on the other; profit oriented trade within capitalism in contrast to the search for the common good within democracy; debate, compromise and majority decision-making within democratic politics versus hierarchical decision-making by managers and capital owners.

"Capitalism is not democratic, democracy not capitalist.

"During the first postwar decades, tensions between the two were moderated through the socio-political embedding of capitalism by an interventionist tax and welfare state.

"Yet, the financialization of capitalism since the 1980s has broken the precarious capitalist-democratic compromise."

Reagan's tax cuts facilitated low interest rates and financial bubbles to promote US financial expansion by making real estate speculation and junk-bond corporate takeovers effectively exempt from income taxation.

This set in motion a chain-reaction of asset price inflation that is still polarizing this economy today.

The primary mode of accumulation has become financial, enabling investment bankers to replace government planners.

No, capitalism isn't tyranny of the majority. It's individual choice

 

[CowboyTed]

Reagan's tax cuts facilitated low interest rates

Lower taxes, lower inflation, lower interest rates. THE HUMANITY!!!!!!

The primary mode of accumulation has become financial, enabling investment bankers to replace government planners.

Thank goodness. Government planners suck ass.

Reagan had huge borrowing...

If you think investment bankers are better than Government planners for normal people you are a fool. I have worked in both industries... Investment banking is the most wasteful industries, bar Pharma (they are unbelievable)... They also are driven by individual short term profit, how did that go during the Financial Crisis...

Actually you want the people who caused the Financial Crisis in charge...

 

[Rigby5]

I seem to remember them losing that many due to their commie masters.

They started with about 100 million population.

In what year?

I read the famine of 1932 killed about 5 million. But the USSR is not communism, but state capitalism.

A commie failure by any other name.

I would say a failure of centralization, and centralization would not have happened if not for Stalin being an authoritarian dictator.
Communism pretty much requires and implies a decentralized democracy, with small, local, cooperative and communal, tribal units.

The USSR was never communist at all, in any way.
There were communists pushing for the 1916 revolution, but the Germans sent Lenin in to get Russia out of the war, and he had all the communists killed off.
Lenin and Stalin actually were German agents and it really was Germany that took over from the Tsar.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes that is true. The fact is all humans ( or any other organism ) must work or starve.

Capitalism gives you the freedom to work OR starve. Collectivists systems enslave you to work AND starve.

Collectivist system allow the option of gaining economy of scale if you want it.
It can't be abusive because the collective option is not mandatory and because the decisions are made locally by the collective members.

 

[Rigby5]

No, capitalism isn't tyranny of the majority. It's individual choice

No, capitalism is the tyranny of the wealthy elite, who try to force everyone else into feudalism, through a monopoly on capital.
We know for sure because before Teddy Roosevelts, we did not have regulations to stop it, and we had child labor, company towns, abusive Pinkerton agent, 12 hour shifts, dangerous work conditions, discrimination, and we even had slavery.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Reagan had huge borrowing...

If you think investment bankers are better than Government planners for normal people you are a fool. I have worked in both industries... Investment banking is the most wasteful industries, bar Pharma (they are unbelievable)... They also are driven by individual short term profit, how did that go during the Financial Crisis...

Actually you want the people who caused the Financial Crisis in charge...

Reagan had huge borrowing...

Yes.

If you think investment bankers are better than Government planners for normal people you are a fool.

You think government planners are better for normal people? Tell me more!!!

Investment banking is the most wasteful industries,

Wasteful how?

They also are driven by individual short term profit,

Profit? How horrible!

how did that go during the Financial Crisis...

How did government mandates for Fannie and Freddie go during the Financial Crisis?

 

[dblack]

No, capitalism is the tyranny of the wealthy elite, who try to force everyone else into feudalism, through a monopoly on capital.

No, you're describing socialism. Which institutes a true monopoly on capital and treats us all as serfs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Communism pretty much requires and implies a decentralized democracy, with small, local, cooperative and communal, tribal units.

And gulags, don't forget the gulags.

They started with about 100 million population.

In what year?

 

[kaz]

No, capitalism is the tyranny of the wealthy elite, who try to force everyone else into feudalism, through a monopoly on capital.
We know for sure because before Teddy Roosevelts, we did not have regulations to stop it, and we had child labor, company towns, abusive Pinkerton agent, 12 hour shifts, dangerous work conditions, discrimination, and we even had slavery.

That's socialism, jackass. Socialism is when government makes the decisions if it's for you comrade or for your masters.

You literally don't know what capitalism means. Crony capitalism is socialism. Capitalism is choice