Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[progressive hunter]

Public debt or private debt?
Both?

https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/blog/news/debt-jubilee.html

what about the people/countries the debt is owed to??

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What does your economic understanding tell you about what happens to society when the rate of return on capital exceeds GDP growth over an extended period of time?

Opinion | Capitalism vs. Democracy (Published 2014)

What does your economic understanding tell you about what happens to society when the rate of return on capital exceeds GDP growth over an extended period of time?

That Piketty is full of shit.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalism went into cardiac arrest in 2008, and is only alive today because of government:

"Since 2008, over nine trillion dollars in created money has been printed and pumped into the near lifeless body of capitalist economies in the U.S., EU, Japan, China and other countries to stave off economic despair.

"Why?

"Because the capitalist system had a heart attack in 2008 and was about to writhe in agony on the floors of global stock exchanges.

"Government bailouts of the banks, i.e., socialism, was the only way to keep the streets clear from flowing blood.

"ATMs needed to remain open so that the world as we know it would continue operating."

Attention Socialists: Capitalism Is Currently on Life Support!

What sober-minded people need to realize is that capitalists can and will build a machine that self-destructs. No need to pull the plug or throw a wrench in it.

And communists can't even build a machine.......

 

[Uncensored2008]

Only slaves regard human beings as commodities.

Socialism and Communism is all about enslaving the vast majority of the population. Socialism views people as parts in the machine of the state, disposable and with no intrinsic worth.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What does your economic understanding tell you about what happens to society when the rate of return on capital exceeds GDP growth over an extended period of time?

Opinion | Capitalism vs. Democracy (Published 2014)

The irony of a Marxist sending me to a Nazi site that is behind a pay wall.

 

[OKTexas]

Only slaves regard human beings as commodities.

Learn the damn language you incompetent commie asshole, labor is what a person's effort produces, not what they are. Sounds to me it's you with a slave mentality.

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Historical materialism - Wikipedia

"To Marx, ancient societies (e.g. Rome and Greece) were based on a ruling class of citizens and a class of slaves; feudalism was based on nobles and serfs; and capitalism based on the capitalist class (bourgeoisie) and the working class (proletariat)."

Marx was a whiney failure.....I see why you like him.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"ATMs needed to remain open so that the world as we know it would continue operating."

The poor and middle class do so much better when the banks fail, eh comrade?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Capitalism went into cardiac arrest in 2008, and is only alive today because of government:

"Since 2008, over nine trillion dollars in created money has been printed and pumped into the near lifeless body of capitalist economies in the U.S., EU, Japan, China and other countries to stave off economic despair.

"Why?

"Because the capitalist system had a heart attack in 2008 and was about to writhe in agony on the floors of global stock exchanges.

"Government bailouts of the banks, i.e., socialism, was the only way to keep the streets clear from flowing blood.

"ATMs needed to remain open so that the world as we know it would continue operating."

Attention Socialists: Capitalism Is Currently on Life Support!

Let us ignore for a moment those here who think all criticism of capitalism is wrongheaded, who instinctually criticize those of us who call ourselves “democratic socialists” or “social democrats.” Some of the crazier ones even call the pro-imperialist, pro-Wall Street corporate DNC … “communist”!

I want to raise more serious criticisms….

When I look at your quotes above and the linked article, my reaction is …. I’m afraid it’s not quite that simple.

The trillions in fiat money “pumped into the system” reinforces capitalist relations. Stock market assets grow, the rich get richer, while those without financial assets get more wretched. This is not socialism. Probably you mean something like “‘socialism’ for the corporations and capitalists” — but then you should make this much clearer.

Capitalism can suffer many crisis, can even “collapse” (it’s happened many times before) — but it always recovers. It will not by itself transform into a socialist or any other utopia.

The crisis of competing capitalist states and alliances tends to world war, not to a socialistic “New World Order” — which is what many lunatics on the right claim has already occurred.

Finally, it is very possible environmental catastrophe, like world war or just a new Cold War leading to “endless proxy wars,” will dramatically accelerate human suffering. Socialism is supposed to be genuinely international — unlike “national socialism” — also know as Nazism or “the socialism of fools.”

Democratic socialists, social democrats, indeed everybody who thinks seriously about the problems that confront humanity, would do well to consider these sad realities.

 

[progressive hunter]

Let us ignore for a moment those here who think all criticism of capitalism is wrongheaded, who instinctually criticize those of us who call ourselves “democratic socialists” or “social democrats.” Some of the crazier ones even call the pro-imperialist, pro-Wall Street corporate DNC … “communist”!

I want to raise more serious criticisms….

When I look at your quotes above and the linked article, my reaction is …. I’m afraid it’s not quite that simple.

The money “pumped into” the system reinforces capitalist relations. Stock market assets grow, the rich get richer, while those without financial assets get more wretched. This is not socialism. Perhaps you mean something like “‘socialism’ for the corporations and capitalists” — but then you should make that clear.

Capitalism can suffer many crisis, can even “collapse” (it’s happened many times before) — but it always recovers. It will not by itself transform into a socialist or any other utopia.

The crisis of competing capitalist states and alliances tends to world war, not to a socialistic “New World Order” — which is what many lunatics on the right claim has already occurred.

Finally, it is very possible environmental catastrophe, like war, will dramatically accelerate human suffering. Socialism is supposed to be genuinely international — unlike “national socialism” — also know as Nazism or “the socialism of fools.”

Democratic socialists, social democrats, indeed everybody who thinks seriously about the problems that confront humanity, would do well to consider these sad realities.

as expected,, youre confusing cronyism with capitalism,,

cronyism fails and capitalism will always exist and cant be stopped as long as there are two [people,,

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

“Crony capitalism” is not a bad term.

But you cannot seriously distinguish it from real existing, historically created American capitalism, which now is centered in Wall Street and the Federal Reserve and the D.C. “Security State.” There are not just a few “cronies.” There is a whole organic imperialist system which extends throughout society, that permeates and has supporters also among the middle and professional and working classes to one extent or another. “It” is definitely not loyal or limited to any one party, either.

 

[progressive hunter]

“Crony capitalism” is not a bad term.

But you cannot seriously distinguish it from real existing, historically created American capitalism, which now is centered in Wall Street and the Federal Reserve and the D.C. “Security State.” There are not just a few “cronies.” There is a whole organic imperialist system which extends throughout society, that permeates and has supporters also among the middle and professional and working classes to one extent or another. “It” is definitely not loyal or limited to any one party, either.

let me guess,,

you went to college,,,

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Is education something you despise?

In fact at 72 years of age, a lifelong blue collar wage worker, once an active unionist, I consider myself blessed to have also seen a bit of the wider world, to have suffered some life experiences that taught me a thing or two. I try to think outside of the box …

How about you?

 

[progressive hunter]

Is education something you despise?

In fact at 72 years of age, a lifelong blue collar wage worker, once an active unionist, I consider myself blessed to have also seen a bit of the wider world, to have suffered some life experiences that taught me a thing or two. I try to think outside of the box …

How about you?

depending on what youre being taught education is a good thing,,

as for your view on capitalism,, well it needs some work,, that or youve been reading to much marx,,

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What sort of work do you suggest I do on my “view of capitalism”? Walk the streets of our decaying cities? Done that. I even worked under those streets. Travel to the third world, Europe, China? Check.

Frankly I might agree with you that I’ve read too damn much about “the dismal science.” Not just Marx, but also the great Adam Smith and many other more modern economists as well.

What is to be done, “ProgressiveHunter,” about this new system (or thing) you call … “cronyism”? Can you describe it in a few sentences, or in a paragraph or two?

 

[Pellinore]

In the old days......now it kills critical thinking.

I promise you, from first-person knowledge: It does not.

 

[Pellinore]

Why Carlson’s Alliance With Hungarian Fascism Matters

This story should get a LOT more coverage than it does. Orban is a vicious, extremist autocrat who is stamping out the democracy in his own nation in plain sight, and our supposedly-conservative popular leaders are crawling around his feet.

He stripped away Hungary's judicial review, then REWROTE THEIR CONSTITUTION to keep him in power. That's what Carlson is sidling up to.

Don't do it, Tucker. Not even you are to Orban's level. Go schedule another interview with James Woods, or something.

 

[Rigby5]

What sober-minded people need to realize is that capitalists can and will build a machine that self-destructs. No need to pull the plug or throw a wrench in it.

And communists can't even build a machine.......

Nah, communism is always better at allocating resources because it can properly prioritize.
When you have greed as the motivation, there is no cooperation even within the same company.
For example, NASA or the internet.
You could never have done those privately with a profit motive, because they do not have a payoff for a very long time, if ever.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nah, communism is always better at allocating resources because it can properly prioritize.

Absolutely.
That's why East Germany made Trabants while West Germany made BMWs and Benzs.

When you have greed as the motivation, there is no cooperation even within the same company.

That's why the Soviet Union had a bigger GDP than the US, cooperation, eh?

For example, NASA or the internet.

Or Chernobyl.........

 

[Rigby5]

Absolutely.
That's why East Germany made Trabants while West Germany made BMWs and Benzs.

When you have greed as the motivation, there is no cooperation even within the same company.

That's why the Soviet Union had a bigger GDP than the US, cooperation, eh?

For example, NASA or the internet.

Or Chernobyl.........

I tend to think the Trabant was the better car.
It lasted pretty much forever and was very inexpensive.
BMW cars are likely the single least practical cars in the entire world.
Although I do like Mercedes.
You do realize the flying car on "Harry Potter" is a Trabant?
It is famous.

The GDP is not necessarily the proper goal of any country, but the USSR had a very hard climate and resources to deal with.
The USSR likely had the greatest advancement of any country, from feudal state to world leader in a couple of decades.

Chernobyl was a combination of being cheap so using graphite moderator instead of heavy water, and and not keeping staff up to training.
A combination of mistakes that is bound to happen eventually, and the US has similar mistakes.