Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[Toddsterpatriot]

The USSR was never communist at all, in any way.

If the government controls 100% of the economy, that's not communist in any way?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nah, communism is always better at allocating resources because it can properly prioritize.

A 13 year waiting list for a car with a 2-stroke engine....can't get much better proof that they
weren't better at allocating resources.

 

[georgephillip]

The trillions in fiat money “pumped into the system” reinforces capitalist relations. Stock market assets grow, the rich get richer, while those without financial assets get more wretched. This is not socialism. Probably you mean something like “‘socialism’ for the corporations and capitalists” — but then you should make this much clearer.

America’s Path To A FIRE Economy
Over the last forty years it seems finance capitalism has trumped manufacturing which coincides with four decades (and counting) of creating criminogenic forms of capitalism based on the three D's: deregulation, de-supervision, and decriminalization.

After the S&L looting of the '80s and 90s hundreds of the most elite criminals received felony convictions, Nothing similar has happened since. It's inconceivable to me to imagine capitalists will ever voluntarily give up their "free lunch" of private profits subsidized by socialized costs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

After the S&L looting of the '80s and 90s hundreds of the most elite criminals received felony convictions, Nothing similar has happened since.

What should the sentence be for writing a crappy mortgage? Selling a crappy mortgage?
Buying a crappy mortgage? Borrowing money with a crappy mortgage?

It's inconceivable to me to imagine capitalists will ever voluntarily give up their "free lunch" of private profits subsidized by socialized costs.

Any specifics? Which private profits? What socialized cost?

 

[georgephillip]

SWealth inequality harms no one and capitalism is the only moral exonomic system as it protects and rests on the rights of indivduals.

Capitalism has never existed without war and debt, and it never will. Only a depraved psychopath would call that moral.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalism has never existed without war and debt, and it never will. Only a depraved psychopath would call that moral.

Capitalism has never existed without war and debt,

When is the last time there was no war or debt?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Collectivist system allow the option of gaining economy of scale if you want it.
It can't be abusive because the collective option is not mandatory and because the decisions are made locally by the collective members.

It is alwasy mandatory and always abusive.

It allows no options at all only what is dicated to you.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism has never existed without war and debt, and it never will. Only a depraved psychopath would call that moral.

Yes it has indeed existed without war and debt.

History proves you wrong

 

[georgephillip]

If 8 years of George W Bush followed by 8 years of Barack Obama hasn't taught us the lesson Democrats and Republicans in Washington DC are the same, then we'll never learn.

Or did it teach us that it doesn't matter who's president ?

Although I didn't recognize the Plunder for what it was (and still is), the tip of the iceberg came into view in the late 1980s:

Wall Street Docuseries ‘The Con’ Set for Virtual Premiere (Exclusive)

 

[georgephillip]

Yes it has indeed existed without war and debt.

History proves you wrong

When has capitalism existed without debt?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When has capitalism existed without debt?

When was the last time there was no debt? Post the year.

 

[kaz]

When was the last time there was no debt? Post the year.

1836. Andrew Jackson was President

 

[georgephillip]

Bush and Obama were the same. But Trump was a president for the people

I feel genuine pity for anyone who actually believes Don the Con was a president for the people. Trump is a malignant narcissist, pathological liar, and life-long con man whose only goal has been self-enrichment.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1836. Andrew Jackson was President

There was debt in the economy after the government paid off their debt.

 

[georgephillip]

via capitalism. They would exist without it

US capitalism began on the plantation.

It isn't too hard to become rich by exploiting free land and free labor.

American Capitalism Is Brutal. You Can Trace That to the Plantation. (Published 2019)

"Cotton was to the 19th century what oil was to the 20th: among the world’s most widely traded commodities.

"Cotton is everywhere, in our clothes, hospitals, soap.

"Before the industrialization of cotton, people wore expensive clothes made of wool or linen and dressed their beds in furs or straw.

"Whoever mastered cotton could make a killing.

"But cotton needed land.

"A field could only tolerate a few straight years of the crop before its soil became depleted.

"Planters watched as acres that had initially produced 1,000 pounds of cotton yielded only 400 a few seasons later."

 

[georgephillip]

No more gas lines/gas shortages.
And oil and gasoline prices dropped. That was awesome!

You mean Dick's and Henry's gas lines?

The 1973 Arab Oil Embargo: The Old Rules No Longer Apply

"Arab oil producers cut off exports to the U.S. to protest American military support for Israel in its 1973 war with Egypt and Syria.

"This brought soaring gas prices and long lines at filling stations, and it contributed to a major economic downturn in the U.S.

"The embargo made the U.S. feel heavily dependent on Middle Eastern oil, which in turn led the U.S. to focus on instability in that region, which has since included multiple wars and other U.S. military interventions."

 

[georgephillip]

Real estate isn't taxed? Real estate income isn't taxed?

You said that not me.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You said that not me.

You didn't say that in post #14? Was your account hacked?

 

[georgephillip]

How should a junk-bond takeover be taxed? Any specifics?

Ask Mike:

 

[bripat9643]

Is “state capitalism” democratic? Can it be? Our U.S. economy, which is profoundly capitalist, is more and more dominated by finance capitalism. Having largely de-industrialized, Wall Street and the Federal Reserve is the heart of the modern American empire. Our democratic Republic is becoming less and less stable, as is much of the rest of our empire’s subordinate dependent economies.

There are in the world of course also so-called “socialist” economies like China’s. But China, where there are huge corporations and stock markets, is really better described as “state capitalist.” It has a one-party authoritarian state, but it might as well call itself “Confucian.” It is neither “social-democratic” nor “democratic socialist.” Its “socialist” egalitarian characteristics are certainly not obvious, nor is it structured as was the “planned economy” of the USSR.

I am trying to give an intelligent outline into the reality of modern world economy, which is very complex and cannot be analyzed accurately in simple 20th century Communist/Capitalist binary Cold War terms. (However, in some ways the national economic contradictions in the world today resemble the situation of competitive capitalist powers before WWI.) I don’t expect most here to be willing to explore the issue in this or any other relatively sophisticated way. Most here are just too wrapped up in truly parochial party partisan politics.

Can you name on example of a state that is "Social Democrat" or egalitarian?