Can You Show the Universe and Earth Was Created by the Big Bang by Showing the Energy?

[james bond]

We know from science that space and time had a beginning.

And before that there was no space and no time. Thus, we had to have an entity without those limits. Something that is timeless or eternal. Kalam's Cosmological Argument states that it had to be God.

 

[james bond]

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

That's what I have been arguing, so where did the energy come from if the universe had a beginning.

I don't like to assume that it always existed like spacetime always existed. In fact, people here don't like that.

I can accept that because then the other dimensions would have had to exist before that.

Thus, this singularity had to have all of that beforehand. The only thing powerful enough to do that with intelligence is God. We have to have mind over matter, i.e. mind came first. Matter and energy, e=mc2, can't just pop into existence first even with singularity.

 

[james bond]

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

So you believe in TWO Gods!!!!!

No, only one God. Lucifer became Satan who became god of the world and prince of the power of the air only because of Adam's sin. That's why most people die if there is a plane crash. Or if you get hit by lightening.

However, we were saved when Jesus came the first time. That's why most people die if there is a plane crash. Or you get hit by lightening.

 

[edthecynic]

That's what I have been arguing, so where did the energy come from if the universe had a beginning.

Energy didn't come from (can't be created) or go away from (destroyed) anything.

 

[edthecynic]

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

So you believe in TWO Gods!!!!!

No, only one God. Lucifer became Satan who became god of the world and prince of the power of the air only because of Adam's sin. That's why most people die if there is a plane crash. Or if you get hit by lightening.

However, we were saved when Jesus came the first time. That's why most people die if there is a plane crash. Or you get hit by lightening.

So actually you have 4 Gods, a father God, a Son God, a spirit God and an evil God.

 

[toobfreak]

You don't know do you?

I hope to know something of the topic after having a degree in physics and studying the subject field for nearly 50 years.

Much of what you said doesn't make sense

Then you need to go back and study what people working in the field say.

The Bible states God created light.

I probably have 6 Bibles in the house, some not for sale to the public, one over 100 years old. As I recall, the Bible says: "And then there was light." Not sure about the part saying God created it. If a cloud moves aside and the Sun comes out, we don't conclude that the cloud created it.

With science, there isn't an explanation except energy can't be created. Just transferred.

We have no physical law to describe any process which would do so. But as Hollie said, the process which created the universe would necessarily include laws/means OUTSIDE the laws which govern its mere operation.

Also, one would need some kind of intelligence to guide the energy it to create what we find in the universe.

Look, I'm a very religious person and you won't find anyone more convinced of an intelligent force or cause behind existence, but I'm also a scientist and I outright reject your attempt to rationalize physical laws and processes at the very edge of our ken as Christian creationism complete with an angry bearded god throwing thunderbolts down at his irascible and misbehaving mankind.

No one knows where the book Genesis came from, it is an interesting effort to describe the whereabouts of how things started, but the Earth is NOT the center of the universe, the universe is far older than 2,000 years or 10,000 years, and undoubtedly, given the right conditions, IT MUST BE POSSIBLE for life similar to us to arise elsewhere in the universe.

So if we are going to talk science, at least practical street science the layman can understand, let's actually stick to science, even if some of it is very theoretical.

 

[james bond]

You don't know do you?

I hope to know something of the topic after having a degree in physics and studying the subject field for nearly 50 years.

Much of what you said doesn't make sense

Then you need to go back and study what people working in the field say.

The Bible states God created light.

I probably have 6 Bibles in the house, some not for sale to the public, one over 100 years old. As I recall, the Bible says: "And then there was light." Not sure about the part saying God created it. If a cloud moves aside and the Sun comes out, we don't conclude that the cloud created it.

With science, there isn't an explanation except energy can't be created. Just transferred.

We have no physical law to describe any process which would do so. But as Hollie said, the process which created the universe would necessarily include laws/means OUTSIDE the laws which govern its mere operation.

Also, one would need some kind of intelligence to guide the energy it to create what we find in the universe.

Look, I'm a very religious person and you won't find anyone more convinced of an intelligent force or cause behind existence, but I'm also a scientist and I outright reject your attempt to rationalize physical laws and processes at the very edge of our ken as Christian creationism complete with an angry bearded god throwing thunderbolts down at his irascible and misbehaving mankind.

No one knows where the book Genesis came from, it is an interesting effort to describe the whereabouts of how things started, but the Earth is NOT the center of the universe, the universe is far older than 2,000 years or 10,000 years, and undoubtedly, given the right conditions, IT MUST BE POSSIBLE for life similar to us to arise elsewhere in the universe.

So if we are going to talk science, at least practical street science the layman can understand, let's actually stick to science, even if some of it is very theoretical.

Well, you didn't know about the properties of dimensions, but you know about physics.

Okay, then where did the energy come from to create the universe and everything in it? Usually, physicists start their explanation with the BB singularity. This is assumed to have happened once and probably not a natural cause as the laws of physics didn't apply and space and time started.

You claimed matter was there, and energy is matter. How much matter was there? An approximation is fine.

Also, we had to have the four dimensions created to have spacetime. Where did the energy come from for it? Even quantum mechanics cannot explain it.

 

[toobfreak]

Well, you didn't know about the properties of dimensions

You know JB, you should just stop while you're ahead. A specious thread has now fallen to being a damn stupid one.

 

[ding]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

CMB says otherwise.

 

[ding]

So how is it possible that God was with the Jews all that time if He left?

In spirit. Just like his spirit and finger of God wrote the Ten Commandments tablets.

Do you not have any intuition of God? Faith should have led you to the Holy Spirit. After that, you realize that Jesus is in your heart because of the great sacrifice he made for humankind.

Same difference. You said God left. God didn't leave.

Can you show me the verse where it says God left?

 

[ding]

The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Here you go again with this disproven crap again!
Usable energy is KINETIC energy, AKA, the energy of MOTION, As the 3rd Law states there is no temperature at which ALL motion stops therefor thermal equilibrium is impossible. As you admitted entropy can "stay the same" IOW, equal zero.
The universe is a perpetual motion machine with an entropy of ZERO.

If you want believe atoms vibrating means no thermal equilibrium, be my guest. That's just plain stupid.

 

[ding]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

You mean other than the CMB?

 

[ding]

We know from science that space and time had a beginning.

And before that there was no space and no time. Thus, we had to have an entity without those limits. Something that is timeless or eternal. Kalam's Cosmological Argument states that it had to be God.

I don't disagree. I have never disagreed. God created existence. God is the solution to the first cause conundrum. There are no other viable options that explains it.

 

[ding]

That's what I have been arguing, so where did the energy come from if the universe had a beginning.

Energy didn't come from (can't be created) or go away from (destroyed) anything.

Sure energy can have a beginning. Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[edthecynic]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

CMB says otherwise.

No it doesn't!

 

[edthecynic]

The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Here you go again with this disproven crap again!
Usable energy is KINETIC energy, AKA, the energy of MOTION, As the 3rd Law states there is no temperature at which ALL motion stops therefor thermal equilibrium is impossible. As you admitted entropy can "stay the same" IOW, equal zero.
The universe is a perpetual motion machine with an entropy of ZERO.

If you want believe atoms vibrating means no thermal equilibrium, be my guest. That's just plain stupid.

Electrons don't "vibrate," they orbit, you know in perpetual motion.

 

[edthecynic]

That's what I have been arguing, so where did the energy come from if the universe had a beginning.

Energy didn't come from (can't be created) or go away from (destroyed) anything.

Sure energy can have a beginning. Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

We've gone through this before, EQUAL amounts of positive and negative energy does not mean there is ZERO energy! Zero energy would mean a zero amount of positive energy and a zero amount of negative energy.

 

[edthecynic]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

You mean other than the CMB?

There is no such thing as nothing!!!
So your video falls apart before it even starts.
Positive energy is SOMETHING and negative energy is another SOMETHING, two somethings in equal amounts do NOT make a nothing!!!!!

 

[ding]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

CMB says otherwise.

No it doesn't!

What do you believe the CMB is, Einstein?

What created the CMB?

 

[ding]

The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Here you go again with this disproven crap again!
Usable energy is KINETIC energy, AKA, the energy of MOTION, As the 3rd Law states there is no temperature at which ALL motion stops therefor thermal equilibrium is impossible. As you admitted entropy can "stay the same" IOW, equal zero.
The universe is a perpetual motion machine with an entropy of ZERO.

If you want believe atoms vibrating means no thermal equilibrium, be my guest. That's just plain stupid.

Electrons don't "vibrate," they orbit, you know in perpetual motion.

You can obfuscate all you want, but just because atomic motion does not stop does not mean thermal equilibrium has not been practically reached. There is literally no way around this. There are no perfectly efficient processes. Perpetual motion in terms of doing real work does not exist. It is a figment of your imagination.