Can You Show the Universe and Earth Was Created by the Big Bang by Showing the Energy?

[ding]

Right. If you tried to create matter from a photon, you just end up right back where you started. Paired production that would just annihilate itself again and leave a photon.

I am getting more and more convinced that a cyclical universe would eventually annihilate itself out of existence and just leave a universe of radiation.

I'm getting a little over my head here ... but photons do have particle characteristics, as such should be considered matter ... they also have wave characteristics, as such should be considered energy ...

I don't know ... it's a gauge boson, and is called a "force carrier", which I suppose means they don't carry energy but rather electromagnetic force ... much like a Scotsman's fist is the force carrier, the other Scotsman's face is where the energy is transferred ... and photons only massless at rest, once moving they are affected by gravity which should mean they have mass, thus objects of matter ... just like mowing lawns ...

While lawns are mowed cyclically, there is no such thing as a free lawn mowing.

 

[ding]

Hey ding, I found a Bible passage that describes God's timelessness. I think it shows he did create spacetime "In the beginning."

Here's what Moses said, “For a thousand years in Your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.” Psalm 90:4

Anyway, without spacetime and the energy required to create it, you are toast. No quantum mechanics. No black hole. Questionable if a singularity can be present. With no passage of time, its gravity can't create a singularity if that's what it does. No transfer of energy.

Not really sure why you have a problem with the universe having a beginning. I don't believe you have thought through the theological implications of a perpetual universe with no beginning and no end. Atheists certainly have and that's why they believe the universe existed forever and was never created.

Just because some cosmologists believe that a universe being created from nothing means there is no room for a creator, doesn't mean there was no first cause or no creator. I believe that it is self evident that it means there was. The only scenario that has no room for a first cause or a creator is a universe without a beginning or an end.

Like I said... I don't believe you have thought this through.

 

[ding]

or "approaches infinity"

That's always been my preferred way of looking at things. Infinity is a bitch.

 

[ding]

You forgot the Father of Genetics and the paleontologist who took part in the discovery of Peking man and many more.

Baylor University, the very bastion of religious higher education, teaches evolution without apology ...

I'm actually not that well read. I did not grow up particularly religious. Ok... I wasn't religious at all. But the Good Lord kept putting things in front of me - totally unrelated tings - that spoke to me in unusual ways, that fit together like a puzzle that had no earthly reason to fit together. One of those pieces was "The Phenomenon of Man" by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

 

[ding]

It's harder to understand how spacetime or the 4th dimension started before the big bang. I think that's why @ding wants the multiverse thing. It makes it easier to say the cause was infinite.

No one knows if there are other universes and no one will ever know if there are other universes. To say ding wants multiverses is incorrect. You keep making assumptions about what others believe. It's a nasty habit of yours and is one of the prime reasons I don't discuss things with you. It's hard enough to make an argument without others misstating that argument and assuming they know what I believe.

With that said, if God wants to create other universes, who are you to say He can't?

And lastly, the cause - God - is infinite and unchanging.

 

[ding]

james bond I am not wanting to be hard on you. I am perfectly fine with your worldview. I am perfectly fine with your literal interpretation of Genesis. I believe that all things are part of God's plan. So I accept how things are. I have faith that everything works out for the best possible outcome that can possibly exist for 7 billion journeys of free will and every journey before that and every journey after that. I have faith in God who I perceive as being infinite love, infinite goodness, infinite beauty, infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite wisdom, infinite justice, infinite mercy and infinite being. Mind you, I am not saying God has those attributes, I am saying God IS those attributes. I have peace. because I believe God is those things. Which is how I know everything works out according to His plan. How can it not?

But our two different views (allegorical vs literal interpretation of Genesis) will probably never be able to be reconciled when we discuss science. It just isn't possible. So what purpose does the conversation serve. I can't see one. I want you to take the journey you are on. I don't think I am part of that journey. I don't want to influence your journey. My journey is studying what God created so I can better understand God and God's ways. It is my belief that God can be known through human reason and the chief tool I have in my toolbox is studying what God created. If you are interested in the basis of my beliefs that is fine. But let's not keep trying to convince one another. Fair enough?

 

[ReinyDays]

While lawns are mowed cyclically, there is no such thing as a free lawn mowing.

Counter-clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere, clockwise in the Southern ... and goats will pay in milk to keep our lawns mowed, worth it if we plant alfalfa grass ...

or "approaches infinity"

That's always been my preferred way of looking at things. Infinity is a bitch.

The mathemagical arts at their finest ...

 

[ding]

So to tie this in a nice neat little bow... There are only two options; the universe began or the universe did not begin and has always existed for eternity. There are no other options. That's it. Just these two. And this is not a new debate either. This debate has been on going since the time of Adam.

Some physicists and some atheists are uncomfortable with the idea that the universe had a beginning because they understand the theological implications of a universe which had a beginning. But regardless of their uncomfortableness, the data overwhelming shows that the universe had a beginning. There are no credible infinite universe models. The cosmological community does not take seriously the idea that the universe has always existed . The debate was settled decades ago.

So the only question which remains is where did the energy come from. And for that we also have two options and two options only; it was created from nothing or it was preexisting. Of these two options the former is the simplest because the only thing standing in its way is the First Law of Thermodynamics; the conservation of energy. This problem is easily solved because the net energy of a universe created from nothing is zero. So energy is conserved. The positive energy of the universe is exactly balanced by the negative energy of gravity. Which leads us to the problem of the second option; the presence of energy creates space time. So now we have the cumbersome explanation how a different spacetime created our spacetime and doing so in the way we know it was created; by cramming all the known energy of our known universe into the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom. And I am not even including the 1 billion particles of antimatter and 1 billion particles of matter for every single particle of the known universe. The other problem for this option is energy and matter cannot be an infinite source because it is subject to decay into radiation. So really there is only one viable option; that space and time were created from nothing. The universe had a beginning and literally popped into existence and began to expand and cool and produced beings that know and create.

 

[ReinyDays]

... I have faith in God who I perceive as being infinite love, infinite goodness, infinite beauty, infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite wisdom, infinite justice, infinite mercy and infinite being ...

d(God)/dt = ∂(love)/∂t + ∂(goodness)/∂t + ∂(beauty)/∂t + ∂(truth)/∂t + ∂(logic)/∂t + ∂(wisdom)/∂t + ∂(justice)/∂t + ∂(mercy)/∂t + ∂(being)/∂t

Can't believe you forgot anger ... see Psalms 90 ...

 

[ding]

... I have faith in God who I perceive as being infinite love, infinite goodness, infinite beauty, infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite wisdom, infinite justice, infinite mercy and infinite being ...

d(God)/dt = ∂(love)/∂t + ∂(goodness)/∂t + ∂(beauty)/∂t + ∂(truth)/∂t + ∂(logic)/∂t + ∂(wisdom)/∂t + ∂(justice)/∂t + ∂(mercy)/∂t + ∂(being)/∂t

Can't believe you forgot anger ... see Psalms 90 ...

He was also called Jealous too.

Seriously, though it's based upon what is extant. It's the whole two sided coin but only one coin thingee.

 

[ding]

... I have faith in God who I perceive as being infinite love, infinite goodness, infinite beauty, infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite wisdom, infinite justice, infinite mercy and infinite being ...

d(God)/dt = ∂(love)/∂t + ∂(goodness)/∂t + ∂(beauty)/∂t + ∂(truth)/∂t + ∂(logic)/∂t + ∂(wisdom)/∂t + ∂(justice)/∂t + ∂(mercy)/∂t + ∂(being)/∂t

Can't believe you forgot anger ... see Psalms 90 ...

So... if you think about it (which I do). The whole what came first argument boils down to something which is infinite and eternal. And for something to be eternal it must be unchanging. I don't see how anything material can be eternal because it is subject to change. So the first cause must be "something" (really no thing) beyond energy and matter. So I don't see how the first cause can be anything other than the incorporeal such as truth, logic, etc.

 

[ding]

Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

 

[james bond]

No one knows if there are other universes and no one will ever know if there are other universes.

I'm not sure what the Bible means to you. You disregard what it states. There is no multiverse. Just one universe and Earth created 6,000 years ago. I thought you believed in multiverses because of who you follow.

It's a nasty habit of yours and is one of the prime reasons I don't discuss things with you.

My opinion is you sound like someone who will be misled. I can't stop and make you listen. All I did was point out what Book of Genesis said and the Bible is God's spoken word. it's supposed to be literal. However, you don't believe in that. You've been swayed by scientific atheism. Many Christians believe in long time and ToE. It's what they were taught in school.

With that said, if God wants to create other universes, who are you to say He can't?

See, you still don't get it. You've already been misled.

But our two different views (allegorical vs literal interpretation of Genesis) will probably never be able to be reconciled when we discuss science. It just isn't possible. So what purpose does the conversation serve. I can't see one. I want you to take the journey you are on. I don't think I am part of that journey. I don't want to influence your journey. My journey is studying what God created so I can better understand God and God's ways. It is my belief that God can be known through human reason and the chief tool I have in my toolbox is studying what God created. If you are interested in the basis of my beliefs that is fine. But let's not keep trying to convince one another. Fair enough?

It can't be reconciled not because of me, but of you. You won't listen to God's breathed word. Already you are misled. I'm not even sure you read the Bible, but make up your own beliefs to show atheists that you are better than them. That's just my opinion, so it's fine you don't listen to what God said. That's just part of what God created in free will.

ETA: Do you believe God created all the energy the universe and Earth with ever need with the electromagnetic spectrum? It explains the false science of dark energy as the Bible states God stretches out the heavens like a tent. God the Father is part of the EMS on the high band side.

 

[ReinyDays]

ETA: Do you believe God created all the energy the universe and Earth with ever need with the electromagnetic spectrum? It explains the false science of dark energy as the Bible states God stretches out the heavens like a tent. God the Father is part of the EMS on the high band side.

Where in the Bible does it say these things? ...

 

[james bond]

Where in the Bible does it say these things? ...

Book of Genesis.

 

[ReinyDays]

Where in the Bible does it say these things? ...

Book of Genesis.

Thank you ...