Can You Show the Universe and Earth Was Created by the Big Bang by Showing the Energy?

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Now...

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[toobfreak]

First, if you believe time is the 4th dimension, then it also includes space. Spacetime are inseparable if we have x, y, and z-axes. Next, we have the BB caused by a singularity. You're just arguing semantics to state the BB created nothing. This is where everything resided and caused the big bang. Anyway, you sound like you're just arguing semantics and not explaining how the energy was created. Are you saying it was God?

Wow. No. Restrain your leaps of illogic.

• If time isn't a forth dimension, then what is it? Time is the immutable property of space, the first three dimensions, necessary because c does not equal infinity, it takes "time" for a probability wave to traverse a dimension in space, and one could say a factor in differentiating between the two states of Fermions: matter and energy. Solid substance, composite matter, Hadrons-- -- as soon as you remove any one of the four dimensions, they cease to exist, yet both states can be described in terms of a probability wave, the essential quality to a probability event is-- -- time, because probability itself is the description of an event which has a beginning and an end-- -- a "before" and an "after." This is the essential quality of the transitory state of matter.
• The BB caused by a singularity? A singularity is a specific class of object. I think it safer to say that the BB describes an event that happened/started/began in a very small region, perhaps a point of NO space at all (infinitely small space) or a lack of dimension, though that too is incorrect because the BB happened everywhere and nowhere at the same time because the BB couldn't have happened "somewhere" (a vectoral coordinate in space) since space itself is a function of it. You cannot be controlled by or a function of something which you yourself determine. It seems almost necessary then that for an event to occur in essentially infinitely small space for it to then also have essentially infinitely large energy contained within it, but not necessarily CREATED by it. "Released" might be a better term.
• I make no attempt to explain how energy is created or if it is created or to what limit energy is available or possible. That cannot be known without assigning definite limits and boundaries to the physical universe! Merely pointing out that the BB did not need/take energy as we know it to get work "done" because I think it is wrong to think of the BB as being "work," it wasn't an "explosion" in the conventional sense, a release of energy as much as it was more an EXPANSION of space itself with energy in it.

 

[Hollie]

There is no such entity as a ''singularity''.

It's you who does not understand. We are talking about the big bang singularity or what caused the big bang. A singularity is an event that by its nature assumed to only happened once and that has no natural explanation. Of course, the atheist scientists make up whatever they want, but won't accept God as the cause or singularity.

There is no big bang singularity. I suspect you, as usual, are cribbing your science terms from the ICR charlatans. Why should anyone accept your gods as a cause or singularity when you a) don't understand those terms, and b) offer nothing more than "... because I say so" slogans to support your version of the gods?

 

[toobfreak]

There is no such entity as a ''singularity''. As usual, you don't understand the terms and definitions you get from your creation ministries.

We understand a "singularity" as a point where the physical laws of the universe as we know them to stop operating. Essentially a point where so much matter is compressed into so small a region of space that matter makes its final collapse and the nuclear separation of neutrons fail and Bose-Einstein space is taken to its ultimate state where gravity reaches infinity and spacetime curves completely in upon itself. Did I express that well?

 

[james bond]

First, if you believe time is the 4th dimension, then it also includes space. Spacetime are inseparable if we have x, y, and z-axes. Next, we have the BB caused by a singularity. You're just arguing semantics to state the BB created nothing. This is where everything resided and caused the big bang. Anyway, you sound like you're just arguing semantics and not explaining how the energy was created. Are you saying it was God?

Wow. No. Restrain your leaps of illogic.

• If time isn't a forth dimension, then what is it? Time is the immutable property of space, the first three dimensions, necessary because c does not equal infinity, it takes "time" for a probability wave to traverse a dimension in space, and one could say a factor in differentiating between the two states of Fermions: matter and energy. Solid substance, composite matter, Hadrons-- -- as soon as you remove any one of the four dimensions, they cease to exist, yet both states can be described in terms of a probability wave, the essential quality to a probability event is-- -- time, because probability itself is the description of an event which has a beginning and an end-- -- a "before" and an "after." This is the essential quality of the transitory state of matter.
• The BB caused by a singularity? A singularity is a specific class of object. I think it safer to say that the BB describes an event that happened/started/began in a very small region, perhaps a point of NO space at all (infinitely small space) or a lack of dimension, though that too is incorrect because the BB happened everywhere and nowhere at the same time because the BB couldn't have happened "somewhere" (a vectoral coordinate in space) since space itself is a function of it. You cannot be controlled by or a function of something which you yourself determine. It seems almost necessary then that for an event to occur in essentially infinitely small space for it to then also have essentially infinitely large energy contained within it, but not necessarily CREATED by it. "Released" might be a better term.
• I make no attempt to explain how energy is created or if it is created or to what limit energy is available or possible. That cannot be known without assigning definite limits and boundaries to the physical universe! Merely pointing out that the BB did not need/take energy as we know it to get work "done" because I think it is wrong to think of the BB as being "work," it wasn't an "explosion" in the conventional sense, a release of energy as much as it was more an EXPANSION of space itself with energy in it.

Sorry, that does not compute for me. First, I said the 4th dimension is spacetime. It isn't just the concept of time as we're talking about the universe and its origin.

Anyway, your last paragraph explains your view. It doesn't explain how light was created nor the energy it had to have. It also doesn't explain how space and time were created. That took energy, too. It just assumes all of it was there before the big bang.

Creation scientists use the word singularity, too, to describe the origin and how laws of physics could be violated and still happen. I think it was God who did it. The creation scientists think so, too.

 

[toobfreak]

Sorry, that does not compute for me.

It should.

First, I said the 4th dimension is spacetime. It isn't just the concept of time as we're talking about the universe and its origin.

If spacetime is all one dimension, the 4th, you have just precluded the need for the first three! So then spacetime would be the FIRST dimension.

Anyway, your last paragraph explains your view.

How did an explanation become "my view?"

It doesn't explain how light was created nor the energy it had to have.

Light is a function of all matter and energy, it is the vectoral boson which is the force carrier for all 1st generation Fermions.

It also doesn't explain how space and time were created. That took energy, too. It just assumes all of it was there before the big bang.

Maybe it was? I don't know why you keep circling back on this rigid assumption that it "took" energy to create spacetime which IS energy. Or that it had to be created. Not all things are knowable. The fish in the pond cannot know the eagle's sky high on the mountain. We are limited by our vantage point of the very tiny trying to look at the very very large. We cannot even see the other side of the room.

 

[Hollie]

There is no such entity as a ''singularity''. As usual, you don't understand the terms and definitions you get from your creation ministries.

We understand a "singularity" as a point where the physical laws of the universe as we know them to stop operating. Essentially a point where so much matter is compressed into so small a region of space that matter makes its final collapse and the nuclear separation of neutrons fail and Bose-Einstein space is taken to its ultimate state where gravity reaches infinity and spacetime curves completely in upon itself. Did I express that well?

That, as I understand it, is largely true excepting that there is no “point” or location. Like all the laws of physics which we understand, those laws operate only inside the known universe. As the origin of the universe is necessarily outside the known universe, we can’t immediately assume that the beginning of the universe should be constrained by any known laws of physics. Second, the idea that the universe had a beginning unique to a location (or an entity), is the remnant of an imaginative description by physicists. The term “singularity” used to describe the beginning of the universe is an artifact of the theory of general relativity. Solving the math resolves to a null value as the equations “break down”.

 

[james bond]

When does your Bible state He came back?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean in Revelation?

You said...

My Bible states God left the universe and Earth because of sin

I am asking you when did God come back?

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

Did anyone tell Moses that?

Yes, God told Moses the Ten Commandments. Then the finger of God wrote them down on the stone tablets. It wasn't God's finger physically there to do it. It's supposedly an anthromorphism.

 

[Hollie]

When does your Bible state He came back?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean in Revelation?

You said...

My Bible states God left the universe and Earth because of sin

I am asking you when did God come back?

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

Did anyone tell Moses that?

Yes, God told Moses the Ten Commandments. Then Moses wrote them down on the stone tablets.

When does your Bible state He came back?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean in Revelation?

You said...

My Bible states God left the universe and Earth because of sin

I am asking you when did God come back?

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

Did anyone tell Moses that?

Yes, God told Moses the Ten Commandments. Then Moses wrote them down on the stone tablets.

Are you sure about that?
New International Version

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 1:18

Were you confusing the tale of shrubbery spontaneously bursting into flames?

 

[ding]

When does your Bible state He came back?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean in Revelation?

You said...

My Bible states God left the universe and Earth because of sin

I am asking you when did God come back?

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

Did anyone tell Moses that?

Yes, God told Moses the Ten Commandments. Then Moses wrote them down on the stone tablets.

So how is it possible that God was with the Jews all that time if He left?

David Wants to Build a Temple
7 King David was living in his palace, and the Lord had given him peace from all his enemies around him. 2 Then David said to Nathan the prophet, “Look, I am living in a palace made of cedar wood, but the Ark of God is in a tent!”

3 Nathan said to the king, “Go and do what you really want to do, because the Lord is with you.”

4 But that night the Lord spoke his word to Nathan, 5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord says: Will you build a house for me to live in? 6 From the time I brought the Israelites out of Egypt until now I have not lived in a house. I have been moving around all this time with a tent as my home. 7 As I have moved with the Israelites, I have never said to the tribes, whom I commanded to take care of my people Israel, “Why haven’t you built me a house of cedar?”’

8 “You must tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord All-Powerful says: I took you from the pasture and from tending the sheep and made you leader of my people Israel. 9 I have been with you everywhere you have gone and have defeated your enemies for you. I will make you as famous as any of the great people on the earth. 10 Also I will choose a place for my people Israel, and I will plant them so they can live in their own homes. They will not be bothered anymore. Wicked people will no longer bother them as they have in the past 11 when I chose judges for my people Israel. But I will give you peace from all your enemies. I also tell you that I will make your descendants kings of Israel after you.

12 “‘When you die and join your ancestors, I will make one of your sons the next king, and I will set up his kingdom. 13 He will build a house for me, and I will let his kingdom rule always. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he sins, I will use other people to punish him. They will be my whips. 15 I took away my love from Saul, whom I removed before you, but I will never stop loving your son. 16 But your family and your kingdom will continue always before me. Your throne will last forever.’”

17 Nathan told David everything God had said in this vision.

 

[toobfreak]

That, as I understand it, is largely true excepting that there is no “point” or location.

True. The location of a singularity can only be described by the presence of the event hoizon around it. That is the place where for all intents, our space and laws end. Thou dare not tread beyond that point.

Like all the laws of physics which we understand, those laws operate only inside the known universe. As the origin of the universe is necessarily outside the known universe, we can’t immediately assume that the beginning of the universe should be constrained by any known law of physics.

How true. By implication then, these "singularities" are not so much "objects" or things in the known sense as they are places outside our universe, or maybe places where something outside our universe connects to ours.

And a great point that whatever caused the BB or the start/creation/beginning of our known universe by definition CANNOT be constrained by the same physical laws that operate within it! Pretty hard then to write equations describing an event whose processes operated by laws we cannot know or observe.

Second, the idea that the universe had a beginning unique to a location (or an entity), is the remnant of an imaginative description.

Yes. One cannot point at a direction in the sky and say it all started over there. There is no center to the universe.

 

[edthecynic]

I learned in high school that energy can’t be created

Yeah, well that was before the neutron was discovered ... we've learn a lot in the 80 years since you left high school ...

The neutron was discovered in 1932.

 

[edthecynic]

Where is the evidence for your created energy?

There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

 

[edthecynic]

The best explanation is a supernatural God. He is the dark energy.

And there it is, give energy a human personality, and suddenly you have a supernatural God.

 

[edthecynic]

I think what we agreed today is that time and space always existed

Actually space/time began at the big bang, not energy, it is energy that always existed and will always exist in the same total quantity. You have nothing right!!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

God didn't come back and won't come back until the sixth seal is opened. We have Satan as "god of the world and prince of the power of the air."

So you believe in TWO Gods!!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Here you go again with this disproven crap again!
Usable energy is KINETIC energy, AKA, the energy of MOTION, As the 3rd Law states there is no temperature at which ALL motion stops therefor thermal equilibrium is impossible. As you admitted entropy can "stay the same" IOW, equal zero.
The universe is a perpetual motion machine with an entropy of ZERO.

 

[james bond]

If spacetime is all one dimension, the 4th, you have just precluded the need for the first three! So then spacetime would be the FIRST dimension.

You don't know do you? No they're, in and of itself, all different dimensions. However, what exists in the first exists in the second. What exists in the second exists in the third. Thus what exists in the third exists in the fourth haha. Like duh .

How did an explanation become "my view?"

That's the way I interpreted it. Much of what you said doesn't make sense and you're the one trying to insult me. All I asked was a difficult question to answer.

Light is a function of all matter and energy, it is the vectoral boson which is the force carrier for all 1st generation Fermions.

The Bible states God created light. With science, there isn't an explanation except energy can't be created. Just transferred. Also, one would need some kind of intelligence to guide the energy it to create what we find in the universe. The BB singularity only has infinite temperature and infinite density. No infinite intelligence to create what we find that exists in the universe. Even our best minds are surprised.

Light is a function of all matter and energy, it is the vectoral boson which is the force carrier for all 1st generation Fermions.

Yes, but one has to have the property of light first. Also, it travels at an incredible speed such that nothing else can travel faster. Then we can have energy. After that, we can have matter. Remember how things progress. You're putting the cart before the horse.

What does the vectoral boson and first generation Fermions mean?

Maybe it was? I don't know why you keep circling back on this rigid assumption that it "took" energy to create spacetime which IS energy. Or that it had to be created. Not all things are knowable. The fish in the pond cannot know the eagle's sky high on the mountain. We are limited by our vantage point of the very tiny trying to look at the very very large. We cannot even see the other side of the room.

It is knowable through the Bible as God, the only witness there, describes what he did. What the scientific atheism can't explain is how it happened without God. One can only use singularity so much even if we allow infinite temperature and infinite density. Again, it take an intelligence to create what we find in our universe.

Yes. One cannot point at a direction in the sky and say it all started over there. There is no center to the universe.

I want to interject here. The creation scientists think our universe is flat like a scroll (science backs this up) and that it has borders and that the center is our Milky Way. What they haven't found is evidence that the universe has borders or maybe I don't understand their explanation -- [astro-ph/0508367] Finite bounded expanding white hole universe without dark matter.

What the creation scientists know is that our universe is running out of energy. Eventually, the universe will slow its accelerated expansion. Many think it will be within 20 billion years, but it depends on our Creator. Only he knows, but Isaac Newton guessed it would be around 2060.

 

[james bond]

So how is it possible that God was with the Jews all that time if He left?

In spirit. Just like his spirit and finger of God wrote the Ten Commandments tablets.

Do you not have any intuition of God? Faith should have led you to the Holy Spirit. After that, you realize that Jesus is in your heart because of the great sacrifice he made for humankind.