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# Can You Show the Universe and Earth Was Created by the Big Bang by Showing the Energy?

#### ding

##### Confront reality
That's what I have been arguing, so where did the energy come from if the universe had a beginning.
Energy didn't come from (can't be created) or go away from (destroyed) anything.
Sure energy can have a beginning. Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.
We've gone through this before, EQUAL amounts of positive and negative energy does not mean there is ZERO energy! Zero energy would mean a zero amount of positive energy and a zero amount of negative energy.
It means zero NET energy. So there is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

#### ding

##### Confront reality
Where is the evidence for your created energy?
There is NO evidence of "created" energy, as you well know, in fact it has been proven by a repeatable experiment that energy can neither be created nor destroyed
You mean other than the CMB?

There is no such thing as nothing!!!
So your video falls apart before it even starts.
Positive energy is SOMETHING and negative energy is another SOMETHING, two somethings in equal amounts do NOT make a nothing!!!!!
I think I'm going to go with Alexander Vilenkin on this one over some anonymous internet troll who has no grasp of science.

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
Can you show me the verse where it says God left?
This is S&T, but I'll try and answer this important question.

"But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." Isaiah 59:2

We know God is holy, holy, holy by his nature and hates sin. We live in a fallen world due to Adam's sin and that's why he left. We were separated from God and Satan was able to gain dominion over the Earth. Adam was able to sin because of free will.

Other verses you may find helpful to understand God being holy and what sin did to separate us from him

I think he lives in the fourth dimension. From there, he can see everything that happens in the third dimension as well as the past and future. He also can influence things as a fourth dimensional being in the third dimension without actually being there.

#### ding

##### Confront reality
Can you show me the verse where it says God left?
This is S&T, but I'll try and answer this important question.

"But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." Isaiah 59:2

We know God is holy, holy, holy by his nature and hates sin. We live in a fallen world due to Adam's sin and that's why he left. We were separated from God and Satan was able to gain dominion over the Earth. Adam was able to sin because of free will.

Other verses you may find helpful to understand God being holy and what sin did to separate us from him

I think he lives in the fourth dimension. From there, he can see everything that happens in the third dimension as well as the past and future. He also can influence things as a fourth dimensional being in the third dimension without actually being there.
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?
You don't accept Genesis . Why waste my time haha.

#### ding

##### Confront reality
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?
You don't accept Genesis . Why waste my time haha.
No. I don't read Genesis literally. I also don't make up things like God left us when almost every verse in the Bible tells us otherwise.

Your errors compound because you start from a faulty starting position. So you have to make up ridiculous things to rationalize your errors. It's obvious to everyone but you. You are the militant atheists favorite Christian. It's why they flock to you, JB.

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?
You don't accept Genesis . Why waste my time haha.
No. I don't read Genesis literally. I also don't make up things like God left us when almost every verse in the Bible tells us otherwise.

Your errors compound because you start from a faulty starting position. So you have to make up ridiculous things to rationalize your errors. It's obvious to everyone but you. You are the militant atheists favorite Christian. It's why they flock to you, JB.
I don't think I'm the one they flock to, but more you. Why do you think God is still here then? What do you have?

I didn't make it up that God left us. It's clear from God's nature of being holy and hating sin. It is explained in the Bible.

If you don't read Genesis literally, then you don't believe God made light on the first day and that was enough to provide all the energy in the universe? He separated the light and dark space and called them day and night. He didn't need the sun to do it. All the power of the universe is in the EMS. It's more evidence for God as the singularity.

#### ding

##### Confront reality
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?
You don't accept Genesis . Why waste my time haha.
No. I don't read Genesis literally. I also don't make up things like God left us when almost every verse in the Bible tells us otherwise.

Your errors compound because you start from a faulty starting position. So you have to make up ridiculous things to rationalize your errors. It's obvious to everyone but you. You are the militant atheists favorite Christian. It's why they flock to you, JB.
I don't think I'm the one they flock to, but more you. Why do you think God is still here then? What do you have?

I didn't make it up that God left us. It's clear from God's nature of being holy and hating sin. It is explained in the Bible.

If you don't read Genesis literally, then you don't believe God made light on the first day and that was enough to provide all the energy in the universe? He separated the light and dark space and called them day and night. He didn't need the sun to do it. All the power of the universe is in the EMS. It's more evidence for God as the singularity.
Hollie doesn't come near me with a ten foot pole. She flocks to you and has her way with you.

It would be illogical for me to discuss theology with someone who believes the Bible states that God left us or that the earth is 6,000 years old.

#### ReinyDays

##### Gold Member
"Where two or more are gathered, and touch upon the things I've touched upon, I will be there"

[Emphasis mine]

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
That's it? Nothing in Genesis?
You don't accept Genesis . Why waste my time haha.
No. I don't read Genesis literally. I also don't make up things like God left us when almost every verse in the Bible tells us otherwise.

Your errors compound because you start from a faulty starting position. So you have to make up ridiculous things to rationalize your errors. It's obvious to everyone but you. You are the militant atheists favorite Christian. It's why they flock to you, JB.
I don't think I'm the one they flock to, but more you. Why do you think God is still here then? What do you have?

I didn't make it up that God left us. It's clear from God's nature of being holy and hating sin. It is explained in the Bible.

If you don't read Genesis literally, then you don't believe God made light on the first day and that was enough to provide all the energy in the universe? He separated the light and dark space and called them day and night. He didn't need the sun to do it. All the power of the universe is in the EMS. It's more evidence for God as the singularity.
Hollie doesn't come near me with a ten foot pole. She flocks to you and has her way with you.

It would be illogical for me to discuss theology with someone who believes the Bible states that God left us or that the earth is 6,000 years old.
This is S&T, so I'll just say you're making stuff up about God in your head again. I am curious while we're here. What about the finger of God? The movie showed it well. That's all over the Bible, but you don't believe that either, do you?

Someone in the fourth dimension can still exert his influence by introducing stuff from spacetime can't he? Such as this dark energy that people like to call it. Isn't that what's causing the accelerated expansion of our universe?

What about when this energy starts winding down? You enjoy talking about that.

In between, we get the benefits about thermodynamics. That's where the energy in the universe gets converted and we have hot flowing to cold. Nothing happens without this flow. No work can get done.

So, do you believe in the infinite temperature and infinite density singularity? What's wrong with that? You're the one who knows about thermodynamics.

#### ReinyDays

##### Gold Member
This is S&T, so I'll just say you're making stuff up about God in your head again.
Yes, this is S&T ... you do have to describe the experiment we can perform to verify your claims ... I'm sad you've turned your face from God, and you feel He has deserted you for your sin ... sounds like your excuse to just keep sinning ...

So, do you believe in the infinite temperature and infinite density singularity? What's wrong with that? You're the one who knows about thermodynamics.
The conditions you've given us is "near infinite energy" ... thus we'd have "near infinite" temperature and "near infinite" density in our "near infinitely small" singularity ... that's what the math says, can you review Wassermann's derivation and tell me where it's wrong ... please ... and explain it, my topology is weak ...

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
It means zero NET energy. So there is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Isn't Vilenkin the guy Dr. William Lane Craig thrashed for his beliefs in infinite multiverses and that universe had a beginning but no cause?

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
Yes, this is S&T ... you do have to describe the experiment we can perform to verify your claims ... I'm sad you've turned your face from God, and you feel He has deserted you for your sin ... sounds like your excuse to just keep sinning ...
The conditions you've given us is "near infinite energy" ... thus we'd have "near infinite" temperature and "near infinite" density in our "near infinitely small" singularity ... that's what the math says, can you review Wassermann's derivation and tell me where it's wrong ... please ... and explain it, my topology is weak ...
I said God left the universe, not desert his creation. What kind of masochistic liar are you?

Why don't you reply to Hollie? She'll explain your science is run by ID creationists, that God doesn't have a face, and beat you with a 10' tent pole like you would enjoy.

#### Hollie

##### Platinum Member
Yes, this is S&T ... you do have to describe the experiment we can perform to verify your claims ... I'm sad you've turned your face from God, and you feel He has deserted you for your sin ... sounds like your excuse to just keep sinning ...
The conditions you've given us is "near infinite energy" ... thus we'd have "near infinite" temperature and "near infinite" density in our "near infinitely small" singularity ... that's what the math says, can you review Wassermann's derivation and tell me where it's wrong ... please ... and explain it, my topology is weak ...
I said God left the universe, not desert his creation. What kind of masochistic liar are you?

Why don't you reply to Hollie? She'll explain your science is run by ID creationists, that God doesn't have a face, and beat you with a 10' tent pole like you would enjoy.
Science is not run by ID’iot creationers. There’s no reason to bring me into your religious war.

“you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

#### ReinyDays

##### Gold Member
I said God left the universe, not desert his creation. What kind of masochistic liar are you?
My, that's a mighty Christian thing to say ... do you normally call folks who disagree with you "liars"? ...

To desert means to leave ... if God left the universe, then God didn't create the universe ... sounds like a paradox ...

#### ReinyDays

##### Gold Member
There’s no reason to bring me into your religious war.
If you change your mind, pick my side, I'll see your water turned to wine ...

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
There’s no reason to bring me into your religious war.
If you change your mind, pick my side, I'll see your water turned to wine ...
Heh. Your side is the Frannie side.

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
I think what happens when we discuss the origins of the Big Bang, then people over the world start falling apart. They can't readily answer where the energy came from where I can provide evidence for my claim.

Usually, we have to accept their singularity that laws of physics were violated because there were no laws of physics. I think I can accept that, but we don't completely understand quantum mechanics and the quantum world. People think all the energy is there when light or electromagnetic spectrum explains it as best theory.

I can also tell you that God left the universe after Adam's sin. The point is it was such a grave sin of free will that God was forced to leave the universe. Adam also lost dominion of the world. Still, God remains with us in spirit.

#### Toddsterpatriot

##### Diamond Member
I think what happens when we discuss the origins of the Big Bang, then people over the world start falling apart. They can't readily answer where the energy came from where I can provide evidence for my claim.

Usually, we have to accept their singularity that laws of physics were violated because there were no laws of physics. I think I can accept that, but we don't completely understand quantum mechanics and the quantum world. People think all the energy is there when light or electromagnetic spectrum explains it as best theory.

I can also tell you that God left the universe after Adam's sin. The point is it was such a grave sin of free will that God was forced to leave the universe. Adam also lost dominion of the world. Still, God remains with us in spirit.
They can't readily answer where the energy came from where I can provide evidence for my claim.

You can provide evidence for where all energy in the Universe came from? Sweet!!!

OP

#### james bond

##### Gold Member
I think what happens when we discuss the origins of the Big Bang, then people over the world start falling apart. They can't readily answer where the energy came from where I can provide evidence for my claim.

Usually, we have to accept their singularity that laws of physics were violated because there were no laws of physics. I think I can accept that, but we don't completely understand quantum mechanics and the quantum world. People think all the energy is there when light or electromagnetic spectrum explains it as best theory.

I can also tell you that God left the universe after Adam's sin. The point is it was such a grave sin of free will that God was forced to leave the universe. Adam also lost dominion of the world. Still, God remains with us in spirit.
They can't readily answer where the energy came from where I can provide evidence for my claim.

You can provide evidence for where all energy in the Universe came from? Sweet!!!

"In the beginning," means there was nothing. No three dimensions. Thus, God created the three dimensions of which there was only darkness and gave it the qualities of the fourth dimension to it so it had spacetime. Nothing is dark, so God created the expanding and accelerating universe such as we explain by the big bang or expansion. He created the "light" or the electromagnetic spectrum. He separated the light and dark parts into two and called the light parts day and the dark parts night. The three dimensions had to be separated. We have day and night from the dimension of time, so time passes into day 1, day 2, day 3, etc.

The EMS can be shown graphically as:

The energy is heat which the radiation from the different parts of light emit and we can see the different temperatures associated with it. Light exists as particle and wave, so everything in the universe can be created from it.

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