Debate Now Can You Choose To Be Gay?

[Mr Natural]

If a guy can look at another guy’s dick and get aroused, then chances are it’s not a choice.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I really don't think being gay is a choice, but it sure is a choice to mess with kids heads by trying to manipulate their sexual identity.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I think the answer is No. Sure, in the last 20 or so years being gay has been ok, socially. But before then, people were still gay and catching all sorts of flack for it.

Who would choose to be gay in a society that threatens you with death if you are caught? Who would choose to be gay if they were to be harassed and hurt by their community?

I think we would all be better if people spent more attention on that which causes harm and less attention on that which doesn't, myself.

Unfortunately, our society is being pulled in two mutually exclusive directions where nobody thinks about harm at all.

 

[Stryder50]

It has been a long time since I have.
What I remember is that adult males would have relations with young boys, most often around 12 years old etc. Usually men in positions of power or wealth. This was hush hush let's pretend we don't do this sort of thing. Regular adult homosexuality was not accepted. But somehow it was ok with prepubescent boys.

That remains a common Arab practice. The Koran even hints that the virgins in Paradise will include young lads.

 

[Stryder50]

Science has never found a genetic or hormonal of other physiological reason for homosexuality.

While I'd answer the thread topic question as it is a matter of choice for some, but for others there is strong compulsion rooted in biology. This is setting aside the situational aspect of prolonged and closed social conditions where one sex/gender is isolated from another such as prisons or the case of era of sailing ships that spent months to years at sea.

I'll start with an excerpt and than follow with an elaboration.
...

BRAIN SEX​

THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN​

by Anne Moir & David Jessel RELEASE DATE: June 1, 1991

If men and women are equal, why have males been the dominant sex virtually throughout history? Here, geneticist Moir and BBC- TV writer-producer Jessel argue convincingly that the answer lies in the difference between the male and female brain. Writing with clarity and style, and documenting their data every step of the way, Moir and Jessel explain how the embryonic brain is shaped as either male or female at about six weeks, when the male fetus begins producing hormones that organize its brain's neural networks into a male pattern; in their absence, the brain will be female. Not surprisingly, there are endless variations in degree of maleness, and mishaps can lead to a male brain in a female body and vice versa. Moir and Jessel include a brain sex test that lets the reader discover just how masculine or feminine his (or her) brain is. For the nonscientist, they translate considerable research into the structural and organizational differences between male and female brains, demonstrating how these differences make men more aggressive and competitive and better at skills that require spatial ability and mathematical reasoning, and women more sensitive to nuances of expression and gesture, more adept at judging character. Women, it seems, are more people-oriented than men, who are more interested in things. Moir and Jessel assert that it is necessary to ``accept who we are before arguing about what we should be,'' and that denying gender differences means ignoring their value. A literate, entertaining, and, for some, surely wrath- provoking presentation of scientific data about the differences between the sexes.

BRAIN SEX | Kirkus Reviews

If men and women are equal, why have males been the dominant sex virtually throughout history? Here, geneticist Moir and BBC- TV writer-producer Jessel argue convincingly that the answer lies in the difference between the male and female brain. Writing with clarity and style, and documenting...

www.kirkusreviews.com

........................
So many may be familiar with the genetics of X and Y chromosome, where the egg provides one X and the sperm provides either one X or one Y. In nature and most species, flora and fauna, the default is to favor reproduction (perpetuate the species) hence the X chromosome in the female egg. Add a second chromosome X, to complete the double helix chain of two 'matching' strands of DNA and you get a female ~ XX . Add a Y chromosome for the second half of the pair gives you XY ~ a male. That's the basic concept/principle, but it does get a bit more complicated.

In their book "Brain Sex", based upon over a hundred research cases over the span of the recent century and done with other animals as well as humans, they point out that hormones also play a crucial role, working in conjunction with the genetic option of X or Y. While Y is key to making a male, and basically messages "change the basic female pattern (X)" this way ... into male" key levels of testosterone or estrogen are also needed. To a slight extend at point after the sperm enters the egg and basic initial genitals and corresponding brain are made, is the first stage.

A second stage for critical hormone dosage is puberty. Usually this goes fairly well and as Nature's plan intends, with the biological physical differences become what they should, but there is a critical third phase towards the end of puberty. This is in regards to the hypothalamus, if I recall correct, which controls sexual attraction/desire. If not dosed with correct amount of hormone and timing, it will not "switch" from the female default attracted to male (XX) into the 'should be' attracted to female (XY). Hence you can wind up with a very male looking body about 98% dude, but the key part of the brain didn't get switched so retains the basic imprint to be attracted to males.

This suggests a strong biological condition for homosexual focus in males, and there was some similar hormone mis-dosage involved in female homosexual orientation mentioned in the book. The "politically incorrect" implication is that for most,, homosexuality is biological, BUT it is also a biological mutation or defect. Further implication would be that as science and medicine advance in knowledge and technique we may eventually be able to detect the trends from womb through adolescence and "treat it" to avoid the genetic and hormone interaction going awry.

That's the best and shortest way I can explain it. Unfortunately I've misplaced my copy and can't find at this time. Another implication is that with until puberty, physical and mental, has completed, usually about early twenties, claiming to be trans or something other than what your plumbing indicates is premature ~ counting the chick before the egg has fully hatched one might say. At this time anyway. It's quite probable that in very near future we will have tests to better determine the tend in a body and treatments should that be desired to correct the aberration~mutation~defect.

 

[Captain Caveman]

You don't have a choice on your sexuality but you have a choice on how you react.

 

[Libby von H]

I can only go by my personal observations of others. I would have to say no it is not a choice. When a lady friend of mine discovered she was sexually attracted to women at the age of 14 she tried to commit suicide. When two schoolmates of mine teen boys discovered they were attracted to males they succeeded in committing suicide. So I would have to say it is not a choice. Is it genetic or a conditioned behavior caused by the environment? I don't know.

YOur own arguent is against you. MANY MANY kids growing go through that. Perversion mostly comes from a perversion indulged. Then the chains are forged. Let's take these stats and you can say what you want

1. 28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: “Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308.”
2. 79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers: “The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. Bell and Weinberg pp.308-309.”

No use arguing for a promiscuity gene !!! To say that tipping to the gay side means that super-promiscuity is then just "hey, that is what happen" that seems to suggest a little attempt to excuse our/your perversions with the same argument.
There are many highly sexed heterosexuals who do not live in the gutter. MANY

 

[lg325]

YOur own arguent is against you. MANY MANY kids growing go through that. Perversion mostly comes from a perversion indulged. Then the chains are forged. Let's take these stats and you can say what you want

1. 28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: “Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308.”
2. 79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers: “The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. Bell and Weinberg pp.308-309.”

No use arguing for a promiscuity gene !!! To say that tipping to the gay side means that super-promiscuity is then just "hey, that is what happen" that seems to suggest a little attempt to excuse our/your perversions with the same argument.
There are many highly sexed heterosexuals who do not live in the gutter. MANY

So if it is a'' compulsion'' it is something they cannot control so is it a choice? Thanks for the post. It is a subject I have tried to understand since a teen back in the 1970s. Are you saying that the compulsion comes from conditioning?

 

[Blues Man]

The next question is why does it matter

 

[iamwhatiseem]

So if it is a'' compulsion'' it is something they cannot control so is it a choice? Thanks for the post. It is a subject I have tried to understand since a teen back in the 1970s. Are you saying that the compulsion comes from conditioning?

Compulsion comes from supply.
In heterosexuality, females are the checksum, or are supposed to be anyway.
They do not want sex as much as the males... not even close.

In male homosexuality - there is no checksum. The supply is near unlimited.

 

[DGS49]

In the 50's, when the question came up, one proposed answer was that if you have ever engaged in homosexual sodomy, then you are a homosexual.

But one cannot help but noticing that, for example, some percentage of long term prisoners the world over bugger each other out of sheer "sexual" need. Same for historical navies. They are not, by today's thinking, homosexuals, but sought relief in that way under extreme conditions.

However, a man cannot choose his sexual preference. Never heard of it. Don't believe it.

Lesbianism is a whole 'nother proposition. Repulsive women, with no chance of ever having a heterosexual relationship, sometimes turn to other women in their need for affection. This is a choice, albeit made under duress. Most lesbians eschew physical sexual activity when they reach middle age. And of course they deny it.

 

[Libby von H]

So if it is a'' compulsion'' it is something they cannot control so is it a choice? Thanks for the post. It is a subject I have tried to understand since a teen back in the 1970s. Are you saying that the compulsion comes from conditioning?

I am saying that the wrong immoral step you take in freedom might be the last time you have that freedom.

I grew up near a racetrack. Many down-and-out hobo types had a choice in maybe the first few years of gambling. they did not take it, and then it was a compulsion. When kids first come across beer, escargot, blue cheese, cigarettes they are DISGUSTED.
They are all acquired tastes. But you first have to say "is this something I want to acquire?" there is utterly no excuse for bisexuality for example. Did a guy have sex with a girl and then say "oh and I must have sex with a guy to be satisfied" well, how stupid is that, you need to be satisfied !!! That is the steep slope to hell because in common with most perversions it goes like Pascal said 350 years ago after awhile you only desire the desire. This much doesn't do it, let me have more... then even more. Promiscuity is someone distracting themselves from Death and Hell , that is my experience

 

[Road Runner]

The next question is why does it matter

I guess if you're not a Christian it doesn't.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I am saying that the wrong immoral step you take in freedom might be the last time you have that freedom.

I grew up near a racetrack. Many down-and-out hobo types had a choice in maybe the first few years of gambling. they did not take it, and then it was a compulsion. When kids first come across beer, escargot, blue cheese, cigarettes they are DISGUSTED.
They are all acquired tastes. But you first have to say "is this something I want to acquire?" there is utterly no excuse for bisexuality for example. Did a guy have sex with a girl and then say "oh and I must have sex with a guy to be satisfied" well, how stupid is that, you need to be satisfied !!! That is the steep slope to hell because in common with most perversions it goes like Pascal said 350 years ago after awhile you only desire the desire. This much doesn't do it, let me have more... then even more. Promiscuity is someone distracting themselves from Death and Hell , that is my experience

I have been reading some of this thread, you say a lot of things that are right, but some wrong.
Homosexuality is not exceptionally an acquired thing. It can be, but certainly not always.
Some people are born gay, something I also use to believe was not true - until I saw it happen for myself with a nephew.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In the 50's, when the question came up, one proposed answer was that if you have ever engaged in homosexual sodomy, then you are a homosexual.

But one cannot help but noticing that, for example, some percentage of long term prisoners the world over bugger each other out of sheer "sexual" need. Same for historical navies. They are not, by today's thinking, homosexuals, but sought relief in that way under extreme conditions.

However, a man cannot choose his sexual preference. Never heard of it. Don't believe it.

Lesbianism is a whole 'nother proposition. Repulsive women, with no chance of ever having a heterosexual relationship, sometimes turn to other women in their need for affection. This is a choice, albeit made under duress. Most lesbians eschew physical sexual activity when they reach middle age. And of course they deny it.

Like any other behavior, even behaviors that our instincts say no to - you can learn to not only get past that ingrained resistance, but actually learn to like it. And in that sense - that person chose to be gay.

 

[Mac-7]

I can only go by my personal observations of others. I would have to say no it is not a choice. When a lady friend of mine discovered she was sexually attracted to women at the age of 14 she tried to commit suicide. When two schoolmates of mine teen boys discovered they were attracted to males they succeeded in committing suicide. So I would have to say it is not a choice. Is it genetic or a conditioned behavior caused by the environment? I don't know.

How anout rapists and murderers?

Are they born that way?

 

[Zincwarrior]

I think sexual preferences are a choice since I chose not to be a creep and attracted to children or animals, but feel free to discuss. (Oh and for the record obviously you choose to be Transgender.)

Are you attracted to them that you have to make a choice? Are you arguing people have to choose to be straight? Do you have to choose to like women?

This is not an attack but a question. LGBTQ argue that their preference is not a choice, but their normal condition.

 

[Mac-7]

Are you attracted to them that you have to make a choice? Are you arguing people have to choose to be straight? Do you have to choose to like women?

This is not an attack but a question. LGBTQ argue that their preference is not a choice, but their normal condition.

If a child is sexually abused by a homosexual adult he is more likely to engage in homosexuality later in life

 

[Blues Man]

I guess if you're not a Christian it doesn't.

even if you're a Christian what does it matter ?

If it's not a choice then that's how your god made you,

 

[lg325]

How anout rapists and murderers?

Are they born that way?

That's my question is it a genetic or conditioned behaviour or maybe a brain disorder caused by organic or other reasons?