Debate Now Can You Choose To Be Gay?

[iamwhatiseem]

Actually, the military is mainly complaining that young men are too fat. So I read yesterday. Probably an intro to a new campaign to shape us up, like they did with cigarettes, though.

Way more than weight.
Historically the military would not accept men with a history of mental illness and or mental disorders.
Today - half the damn kids alive in America are on at least one head pill.

 

[Circe]

Absolutely.
The answer to that is obvious.
Less than 5% of <25 year olds identified as bisexual or gay prior to 2000.
Today - 1 in 5.
20%. That is enormously over any society other than Ancient Greece and Rome.

About Greece and Rome.

Okay, I study this era a lot, and it happens that I've been studying Latin for some years now. The idea some, most, people have that in Greece and Rome this was an okay thing is SO BOGUS ---- especially in Rome it was a regular way to say the worst things about men, just as it is today. Yes, there WAS a lot of it, especially slaves and male prostitutes, just as today, but if you think it was accepted, try reading Martial's epigrams ----- AAAAAccccck! They are such raw, pornographic put-downs that the earlier Loeb translator put the worst ones in Italian. Unluckily so many of them were in Italian that they had to get another translator. Martial (a stand-up comic) had such a low opinion of homosexuals and made such a good living from that, that it's impossible to believe anyone really approved; besides, the other histories by many other people are full of sarcasm about all the other homosexuals. Sounds just like today. Today the prime minister of England lost power because of one of his whips groping the privates of men while drunk in a private club.

Same deal with Greece. Yeah, there was some, not exactly homosexuality, but male pedophilia. When they grew up, they were supposed to stop that. But this was not thought generally well of, and note that Socrates was fed the hemlock for "corrupting the youth of Athens." What do you suppose that meant? Have you ever READ the dialogues and all his suggestive remarks? He was sexually after every one of his students -- NO university would put up with Socrates' predation today.

 

[Road Runner]

Yeah, swing both ways is usually the thing and everyone has a gay thought or two or multiple ones…

No,.. not everyone. In fact, most people don't.

The question, if a person says they choose to be homosexual, does that choice come from conditioning by their environment?

Probably from the media. Tagging Slade3200. Not calling him out or anything, just giving him the freedom to comment on this thread since we were the ones discussing this first.

 

[lg325]

About Greece and Rome.

Okay, I study this era a lot, and it happens that I've been studying Latin for some years now. The idea some, most, people have that in Greece and Rome this was an okay thing is SO BOGUS ---- especially in Rome it was a regular way to say the worst things about men, just as it is today. Yes, there WAS a lot of it, especially slaves and male prostitutes, just as today, but if you think it was accepted, try reading Martial's epigrams ----- AAAAAccccck! They are such raw, pornographic put-downs that the earlier Loeb translator put the worst ones in Italian. Unluckily so many of them were in Italian that they had to get another translator. Martial (a stand-up comic) had such a low opinion of homosexuals and made such a good living from that, that it's impossible to believe anyone really approved; besides, the other histories by many other people are full of sarcasm about all the other homosexuals. Sounds just like today. Today the prime minister of England lost power because of one of his whips groping the privates of men while drunk in a private club.

Same deal with Greece. Yeah, there was some, not exactly homosexuality, but male pedophilia. When they grew up, they were supposed to stop that. But this was not thought generally well of, and note that Socrates was fed the hemlock for "corrupting the youth of Athens." What do you suppose that meant? Have you ever READ the dialogues and all his suggestive remarks? He was sexually after every one of his students -- NO university would put up with Socrates' predation today.

From what I read about Sparta I would not want to be in any Gym Class. Sex with students by the teacher was part of their education. ( I would have faked my death and ran away)

 

[Slade3200]

No,.. not everyone. In fact, most people don't.



Probably from the media. Tagging Slade3200. Not calling him out or anything, just giving him the freedom to comment on this thread since we were the ones discussing this first.

If you have twins and one is gay and the other isn’t then that can help rule out environment conditioning. But I guess a case can always be made that no two people share the same experience within their environment. In the end I would say it doesn’t matter in the least. But if we are talking scientifically about it then I’d start by studying twins and the many cases of closet gay people who grew up hiding their sexuality because their environment was not accepting of it. People have gone so far as to get married and have kids knowing that they were really gay. How sad is that?

 

[BlackSand]

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Pineapple

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[okfine]

Bringing this up because it came up in another topic. I have only one rule. Absolutely NO bashing anybody of the LGBT community (this doesn't include the sin of homosexuality itself) as this isn't what this discussion is about. Me personally, I think sexual preferences are a choice since I chose not to be a creep and attracted to children or animals, but feel free to discuss. (Oh and for the record obviously you choose to be Transgender.)

You post similar OP's often. Maybe you're curious. Maybe you're not. Hmmm.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

About Greece and Rome.

Okay, I study this era a lot, and it happens that I've been studying Latin for some years now. The idea some, most, people have that in Greece and Rome this was an okay thing is SO BOGUS ---- especially in Rome it was a regular way to say the worst things about men, just as it is today. Yes, there WAS a lot of it, especially slaves and male prostitutes, just as today, but if you think it was accepted, try reading Martial's epigrams ----- AAAAAccccck! They are such raw, pornographic put-downs that the earlier Loeb translator put the worst ones in Italian. Unluckily so many of them were in Italian that they had to get another translator. Martial (a stand-up comic) had such a low opinion of homosexuals and made such a good living from that, that it's impossible to believe anyone really approved; besides, the other histories by many other people are full of sarcasm about all the other homosexuals. Sounds just like today. Today the prime minister of England lost power because of one of his whips groping the privates of men while drunk in a private club.

Same deal with Greece. Yeah, there was some, not exactly homosexuality, but male pedophilia. When they grew up, they were supposed to stop that. But this was not thought generally well of, and note that Socrates was fed the hemlock for "corrupting the youth of Athens." What do you suppose that meant? Have you ever READ the dialogues and all his suggestive remarks? He was sexually after every one of his students -- NO university would put up with Socrates' predation today.

It has been a long time since I have.
What I remember is that adult males would have relations with young boys, most often around 12 years old etc. Usually men in positions of power or wealth. This was hush hush let's pretend we don't do this sort of thing. Regular adult homosexuality was not accepted. But somehow it was ok with prepubescent boys.

 

[Road Runner]

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Pineapple

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WTF???

 

[Circe]

It has been a long time since I have.
What I remember is that adult males would have relations with young boys, most often around 12 years old etc. Usually men in positions of power or wealth. This was hush hush let's pretend we don't do this sort of thing. Regular adult homosexuality was not accepted. But somehow it was ok with prepubescent boys.

Yes, that is what I've been reading, too! Strange fashion, kind of sad for the boys, maybe.

 

[Blues Man]

IMO some choose and some don't.

And it is absolutely irrelevant

Life is short and if a person finds love and happiness with a same sex partner good for them.

 

[surada]

That's a rather surprising response from you since you're a Christian as well. I just don't believe that God makes mistakes and He definitely condemns homosexuality.

God made homosexuals too.

 

[buttercup]

God made homosexuals too.

He didn't make them gay, liar.

 

[Blues Man]

He didn't make them gay, liar.

How do you know?

Do you speak for god now?

 

[surada]

He didn't make them gay, liar.

Since the beginning of time.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

IMO some choose and some don't.

And it is absolutely irrelevant

Life is short and if a person finds love and happiness with a same sex partner good for them.

It's not that simple.
Not when kids are involved in it.
Virtually every single human being above the age of 3 and below the age of 18 - the vast majority of why they do whatever they do revolves around fitting in with peers. Not a decision based on reality.
So if outside influences tell them it is boring or old fashioned to be cisgender and heterosexual... and more enlightened to be a "they" or "more open" then many will chose that to fit in or belong to a group of kids.
20% of people under 20 identify as bisexual or gay or trans. 1 in 5. That is a VERY fucked up situation.

 

[buttercup]

How do you know?

Do you speak for god now?

Surada claims to be a Christian, so my response to her was in regard to the God of the bible, and the bible is crystal clear that homosexuality is a sin. God does not sin, therefore God didn't make homosexuals to be homosexuals. Any other questions?

 

[surada]

Surada claims to be a Christian, so my response to her was in regard to the God of the bible, and the bible is crystal clear that homosexuality is a sin. God does not sin, therefore God didn't make homosexuals to be homosexuals. Any other questions?

Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't about homosexuals. It's about sexual violence.

 

[buttercup]

Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't about homosexuals. It's about sexual violence.

Give it a rest. All you do here day in and day out is lie about nearly everything, but especially Christianity. Enough.

 

[surada]

Give it a rest. All you do here day in and day out is lie about nearly everything, but especially Christianity. Enough.

You should study the Bible seriously.