Can Someone Explain how we can Impliment Socialism and Still Enjoy the Benefits of Capitalism?

[Ringo]

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Money is always at work in the economy unless it's stuffed in a mattress somewhere. Our biggest problem is the trade deficit. Our spending isn't "returned to the economy", it's sent to the economy of China and others who have a trade surplus with us.

No, the trade deficit is not a problem. You just think so because the moron in chief – who understands little if anything about trade and the economy told you that it’s a problem . You then blithely and mindlessly repeat his lies. The deficit does not represent a rip off. That money purchases goods that that are sold for a profit in the US generating revenue and taxes.

The fact is that we are not a manufacturing country . For instance , 98% of clothing is imported. We don’t grow coffee but that idiot has put tariffs on both

A trade deficit is not inherently a "rip off" and is often a sign of a healthy, open economy, though it can be a source of economic disruption for specific communities. A trade deficit, which occurs when a country imports more than it exports, can indicate strong domestic investment and consumer demand, leading to benefits like lower prices for consumers and increased foreign investment in the country.

I wish you people would educate yourselves instead of just regurgitating MAGA talking points.

And by the way, what does this have to do with socialism. Get back on topic/

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Money is always at work in the economy unless it's stuffed in a mattress

Bullshit. I'm talking about the difference between money in the hands on ordinary consumers who will spend it on necessities generating profits, jobs and taxes. . When a billionaire is given a tax break, they hoard the windfall by investing it . If they another million in dividends, it benefits no one but that billionaire

Educate yourself and stop being a Trump lackey

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You really believe that?

The Soviet famine of 1930–1933 was a man-made famine in the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union, including Ukraine and different parts of Russia (Kazakhstan. Major factors included the forced collectivization of agriculture as a part of the First Five-Year Plan and forced grain procurement from farmers. These factors in conjunction with a massive investment in heavy industry decreased the agricultural workforce. It is estimated that 5.7 million people died from starvation across the Soviet Union. In addition, 50 to 70 million Soviet citizens starved during the famine but ultimately survived.

Soviet famine of 1930–1933 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And this has what , exactly, to do with Democratic Socialism in the present day U.S,? Is Sanders now Stalin in your warped mind?

 

[Ringo]

You really believe that?

The Soviet famine of 1930–1933 was a man-made famine

You can clearly see by year when Ukraine's population grew and when it declined.

 

[Seymour Flops]

A cheap piece of lying crap, started, by the way, in Dr. Goebbels' propaganda ministry. Only a brainwashed idiot would believe that a socialist state would deliberately starve its own people.
By the way, somewhere on my computer I have a scan from a Ukrainian-language newspaper published in the US about the famine in Ukraine in the early 1930s. Only it wrote about the famine in WESTERN Ukraine. Get it? The poor harvest hit not only the USSR that year. But it will do for bourgeois propaganda there is no garbage, everything be used..

No point in debating someone who will not accept historical facts.

 

[Ringo]

No point in debating someone who will not accept historical facts.

I repeat,the “facts” about deliberately starving one's own population were first presented by Dr. Goebbels. I hope you can find more of his works on the internet, which will give you more “facts” in your kampf against world communism.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I repeat,the “facts” about deliberately starving one's own population were first presented by Dr. Goebbels. I hope you can find more of his works on the internet, which will give you more “facts” in your kampf against world communism.

You are too silly to give a serious response to.

 

[DennisPTate]

After more than one hundred and fifty years of capitalism, there is plenty of money available in the United States for Socialism to work - if money were the only reason it would not. But even if that were true, the money will have to run out and then socialism cannot work.

The False Appeal Of Socialism

Even in its new, fashionable, incarnation, socialism cannot fulfill people’s economic needs or their yearning for freedom.

www.hoover.org

Many Americans—particularly but not exclusively the young—remain intrigued by socialism. Indeed, a 2019 survey found that socialism is as popular as capitalism among young American adults. Well-known political figures such as Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez describe themselves as “democratic socialists” and advocate tens of trillions of dollars in new spending programs along with a massive expansion of state power over citizens’ lives. In academic circles, too, the debate surrounding the merits of socialism continues.

Yet, the clothes, the cars, the homes, the books (if any still read them), the devices and the services on those devices, and even their favorite social media influencers are the products of capitalism, brought to them by people in search of profit.

Imagine a version of Youtube in which government committees, rather than popularity driven monetization, paid producers to keep posting content. It would die on the vine or broadcast unwatched content into the ether, unless government decided to somehow mandate consumuing the videos.

"govtube.org" would probably manage to be even less popular than Air America was.

So when whatever socialist world you envision comes about, how will goods and services continue to be produced? Please be specific and step-by-step, not just "by the people's producers!" or some such nonsense.

How will production be motivated, and how will government determine what to produce?

This is an excellent question!

The answer was given by Economist Milton Friedman and is MOST APPLICABLE in a situation where PRODUCTIVITY is about to take a massive boost, [which is EXACTLY our situation here in November of 2025]!

Robotics and Artificial Intelligence are about to cause the productivity of USA and Canadian workers to surge by twenty, thirty, forty or more percentage points. Depending on exactly how robotics and Artificial Intelligence are implemented the productivity of USA and Canadian workers could surge by well over seventy percent, [and the importance of some form of VOLUNTEERISM as an important part of the total economy could surge from somewhere around twenty percent of the economy to over fifty percent of the true value of the economy]!

x. The Distribution of IncomeFriedman examines the progressive income tax, introduced in order to redistribute income to make things more fair, and finds that, in fact, the rich take advantage of numerous loopholes, nullifying the redistributive effects. It would be far more fair just to have a uniform flat tax with no deductions, which could meet the 1962 tax revenues with a rate only slightly greater than the lowest tax bracket at that time.

xi. Social Welfare MeasuresThough well-intentioned, many social welfare measures don't help the poor as much as some think. Friedman focuses on Social Security as a particularly large and unfair system.

xii. Alleviation of PovertyFriedman regarded welfare programs as misguided and inefficient. To replace them, he advocates a negative income tax, giving everyone a guaranteed minimum income.

Capitalism and Freedom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My understanding is that Dr. Milton Friedman advocated for Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income Supplements to be distributed equally to all citizens and legal residents, that are separate from the person's last years income, or even their present income, so that this could be done with little or very little bureaucracy!

Like myself, Dr. Milton Friedman felt that bureaucrats tend to want more and more and more control over the lives of ordinary people.

If the author of the lecture "Innovating to zero" gains control over how bureaucracies are implemented then Mr. Mo Gawdat would be correct and we will be headed into a "Dystopian Nightmare."

 

[DennisPTate]

I repeat,the “facts” about deliberately starving one's own population were first presented by Dr. Goebbels. I hope you can find more of his works on the internet, which will give you more “facts” in your kampf against world communism.

YOU have got it! What we are talking about here is ultimately about defining the word "starving" in relation to the future of perhaps eighty percent of Canadian and Americans!

Here is how I believe that this will eventually work out which in my opinion is great news!

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and
nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it
all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by
people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of
becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to
all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

I have reason to take this prediction seriously because my wife and several of her friends have similar spiritual gifts. They receive a level of guidance that I personally cannot comprehend but due to what I have seen in their lives I tend to take this prediction from Pastor David Wilkerson very seriously.

When the average USA or Canadian worker has more disposable income, probably due to a number of "Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income Supplements" in their bank accounts each month, then, many of them will purchase land, and build a second home or cottage outside of the cities and suburbs where their primary home is!

This will produce an economic boom in real estate!

 

[gipper]

The system is now corporatism.

China is going to win because of this.

It may not be tomorrow, it may not be in two years time, but they will win nonetheless.

Greed always leads to the fall of civilizations.

I can’t believe you of all people posted that.

Don’t you hate China and want the US to go to war with it?

 

[gipper]

Any honest capitalist will tell you that capitalism is about profit and only profit. And what is the most profitable and quickest way to make a profit? Plunder. Through the exploitation of workers or through war.

That is why, no matter how far technological progress has advanced under capitalism, poverty, crime, and war cannot disappear, because they are part of making a profit, and moreover, the most important part. Plunder.

Most importantly, technological progress in military affairs has led to the possibility of destroying life on Earth. And this danger cannot disappear under capitalism. So, for this reason alone, the rotten structure called capitalism must be destroyed. Humanity deserves better than to remain at the level of savages.

What life is like for Americans, in the richest nation on earth:

the top 50% of households own approximately 98% of the nation's wealth, while the bottom 50% own only 2%

the combined wealth of the three richest U.S. families—the Waltons of Walmart, the Mars family, and the Koch brothers—reaches $348.7 billion, which exceeds the total wealth of the bottom 50% of the population.

77% can’t afford a median-priced home

70% live paycheck to paycheck

140 million are poor or low-income

100 million have medical debt

We’re living through the horrors of late stage capitalism while Republicans AND Democrats in Congress condemn socialism, for the specific benefit of their wealthy capitalist billionaire donors.

When will the American people wake up and realize they’ve been scammed.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I can’t believe you of all people posted that.

Don’t you hate China and want the US to go to war with it?

America isn;t the aggressor. You made China in fact.

 

[gipper]

America isn;t the aggressor. You made China in fact.

That’s more like a post I expect from you.

What does…”You made China in fact”...mean?

China is the aggressor in your mind. Lol. Do you fail to see how ignorant that is? The US has military bases surrounding China and a massive naval presence just off-shore. It has heavily armed Taiwan. He has threatened military action against China for years. Has China done the same to the US?

Yet you think China is the aggressor. Lol

I bet you also think Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked.

 

[shockedcanadian]

That’s more like a post I expect from you.

What does…”You made China in fact”...mean?

China is the aggressor in your mind. Lol. Do you fail to see how ignorant that is? The US has military bases surrounding China and a massive naval presence just off-shore. It has heavily armed Taiwan. He has threatened military action against China for years. Has China done the same to the US?

Yet you think China is the aggressor. Lol

I bet you also think Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked.

Yes, Russia DID invade Ukraine unprovoked. Are you suggesting that Ukraine challenged Russia to invade them?

Give it a break man lol

 

[gipper]

Yes, Russia DID invade Ukraine unprovoked. Are you suggesting that Ukraine challenged Russia to invade them?

Give it a break man lol

Lol. Unbelievable. You only know the establishment narrative.

GET INFORMED!

 

[shockedcanadian]

Lol. Unbelievable. You only know the establishment narrative.

GET INFORMED!

You should take your own advice.

Putin invaded Ukraine now both countries are stuck murdering millions of their own citizens. For what? A little bit more land?

Ridiculous. This type of warfare was supposed to have disappeared over 100 years ago.

 

[Ringo]

For what? A little bit more land?
Ridiculous. This type of warfare was supposed to have disappeared over 100 years ago.

Yes! It's time to learn progressive neocolonial plunder, just like all progressive bandits do
. Instead of costly land seizures, you bribe the top brass and, with their help, plunder the country, while remaining on the sidelines and supporting this predatory quisling leadership, declaring it to be truly democratic and freedom-loving, as, for example, in Ukraine.

 

[gipper]

You should take your own advice.

Putin invaded Ukraine now both countries are stuck murdering millions of their own citizens. For what? A little bit more land?

Ridiculous. This type of warfare was supposed to have disappeared over 100 years ago.

You know nothing, but don’t know you know nothing. That’s a bad combination.

 

[shockedcanadian]

You know nothing, but don’t know you know nothing. That’s a bad combination.

If you knew what I knew you'd alter that statement.

A man is measured by his hardship in life and continuing to come through the other side.