Cain tax plan shifts tax burden from the rich to the poor

[auditor0007]

Typical Republican...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Herman Cain has a plan to radically reform the nation's tax system and make things a lot simpler for taxpayers.

Problem is, it could end up adding to the deficit and shifting the tax burden away from the wealthy and onto the poor, according to some leading tax experts.

Cain, who's recently moved up in the polls to become one of the leading Republican presidential candidates, is basing much of his campaign on what he calls the 9-9-9 plan, which would get rid of almost all current taxes and replace them with a 9% flat tax on income, a 9% flat corporate tax and a 9% national sales tax.

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan: Break for the rich? - Oct. 11, 2011

Herman Cain wants a tax system similar to state tax systems where the lowest income earners pay the most and the highest income earners pay the least. It's laughable. He ought to be lynched for even suggesting such a stupid plan. States rely heavily on sales taxes. The less an individual earns, the greater amount of his/her income goes to taxes. In some states such as Texas, the wealthy only pay 25% the rate of what the lowest income earners pay. It's an absolute joke.

I hope the Republicans are stupid enough to make Cain their nominee. Dems will have a field day with his idiotic plan.

 

[auditor0007]

Having a plethora of threads about it does not make it true. Chris, you're an idiot.

Actually, Chris is spot on. Cain's plan will shift the tax burden to the lowest income earners. His plan is a joke and it needs to be made clear how big of a joke it is.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If a poor person working at low wages gets food stamps, Medicaid, maybe some heat/energy assistance, etc.,

what's the point of then taxing that person?

You're then effectively taking away a portion of his assistance.

Why don't you just take away his food stamps, or his Medicaid?

 

[auditor0007]

Typical Republican...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Herman Cain has a plan to radically reform the nation's tax system and make things a lot simpler for taxpayers.

Problem is, it could end up adding to the deficit and shifting the tax burden away from the wealthy and onto the poor, according to some leading tax experts.

Cain, who's recently moved up in the polls to become one of the leading Republican presidential candidates, is basing much of his campaign on what he calls the 9-9-9 plan, which would get rid of almost all current taxes and replace them with a 9% flat tax on income, a 9% flat corporate tax and a 9% national sales tax.

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan: Break for the rich? - Oct. 11, 2011

no it doesn't it makes it fair and square we all pay nine persent. how easy is that?

Honestly, you belong in the dunce chair with that statement.

 

[Mr Natural]

If a poor person working at low wages gets food stamps, Medicaid, maybe some heat/energy assistance, etc.,

what's the point of then taxing that person?

You're then effectively taking away a portion of his assistance.

Why don't you just take away his food stamps, or his Medicaid?

Don't be giving them any ideas.

 

[Mustang]

Actually, it places the burden on all equally.

Are you familiar with the concepts of regressive versus progressive tax rates?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Why does everyone who answers the question 'yes' not simply say 'yes, I'm for raising taxes on the poor, the low income workers, the unemployed' ??

Because I'm not in favor of raising taxes period. I'm in favor of those who don't pay anything getting some skin in the game. Is that a raise for that subset of citizens? Yes, BUT......they've been riding the gravy train for a long time for free.

Disclaimer - I'm talking about income tax, not all the other taxes we ALL pay.

You can't be for someone's tax to go from nothing to something without being for raising taxes.

That is mathematically impossible.

I'm all for raising taxes on some people who pay nothing. Fuck 'em.

 

[Mustang]

Because I'm not in favor of raising taxes period. I'm in favor of those who don't pay anything getting some skin in the game. Is that a raise for that subset of citizens? Yes, BUT......they've been riding the gravy train for a long time for free.

Disclaimer - I'm talking about income tax, not all the other taxes we ALL pay.

You can't be for someone's tax to go from nothing to something without being for raising taxes.

That is mathematically impossible.

I'm all for raising taxes on some people who pay nothing. Fuck 'em.

The only group I'm aware of that doesn't pay taxes is infant children.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Maybe it's time for the poor and middle class to be burdened with higher taxes so they'll know how the rich feel.

I'm betting that your taxes are chump change compared to what Buffett, Jobs or Gates pay each year......but keep believing whatever you want. The question has been asked in multiple threads, but has yet to be answered by anyone.......what is a "fair share"? Define it for us. I can't. But what I can tell you is NOT "fair" is that 45% of Americans pay NO federal income tax at all.

"fair share" is about as definable as "social justice".........it's all in the eyes of the leftie beholder...

 

[Bern80]

Why does everyone who answers the question 'yes' not simply say 'yes, I'm for raising taxes on the poor, the low income workers, the unemployed' ??

Looks to me like plenty here, including myself, already are. If you aren't paying any taxes, which certain members of 'the poor' do not, then said people with said liability of nothing should indeed have their tax liability raised to something.

You are so transparent NY. You thought none of us would have the nerve to admit to wanting o raise taxes on poor people. That if we actually had to write it out we would be ashamed of it? Sorry, I'm not ashamed to ask those who contribute nothing in taxes to start contributing something.

The fact that one kook like you will say it doesn't disprove my point.

Please explain the 'kookiness' that everyone should have to pay taxes.

 

[Care4all]

Because I'm not in favor of raising taxes period. I'm in favor of those who don't pay anything getting some skin in the game. Is that a raise for that subset of citizens? Yes, BUT......they've been riding the gravy train for a long time for free.

Disclaimer - I'm talking about income tax, not all the other taxes we ALL pay.

You can't be for someone's tax to go from nothing to something without being for raising taxes.

That is mathematically impossible.

I'm all for raising taxes on some people who pay nothing. Fuck 'em.

for 20 plus years i've been doing our taxes, and every single year, my goal is to get what we owe in income taxes, legally, down to zero...it hasn't worket so far, but i am still setting that as my goal....by the time i am a senior cit, i may not owe any at tax time! if and when i reach that goal, YOU ARE NOT gonna take that away from me, darn it!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cain's 999 plan says that three quaters of congress is needed to raise any part of 999 plan.
The more you spend the more you pay in tax under the sales tax.
The rich spends plenty and they will pay more than the rest of us.
And the 999 plan will change to a flat sales tax.

Unless that is actually written into the Constitution through an amendment it is not binding on anyone in the future.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Looks to me like plenty here, including myself, already are. If you aren't paying any taxes, which certain members of 'the poor' do not, then said people with said liability of nothing should indeed have their tax liability raised to something.

You are so transparent NY. You thought none of us would have the nerve to admit to wanting o raise taxes on poor people. That if we actually had to write it out we would be ashamed of it? Sorry, I'm not ashamed to ask those who contribute nothing in taxes to start contributing something.

The fact that one kook like you will say it doesn't disprove my point.

Please explain the 'kookiness' that everyone should have to pay taxes.

Do you ask that of the people who want to get rid of the capital gains tax, or the corporate tax?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If a poor person working at low wages gets food stamps, Medicaid, maybe some heat/energy assistance, etc.,

what's the point of then taxing that person?

You're then effectively taking away a portion of his assistance.

Why don't you just take away his food stamps, or his Medicaid?

I guess any response to this won't be forthcoming anytime soon.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have someone working for low wages, with dependents to feed,

and they're qualified for, let's say, $100 a month in food stamps. But because their wage is very low,

they don't pay federal income tax. They get 1200 a year in food stamps,

and you geniuses want them to have 'skin in the game', so you put, let's say, a $1200 a year income tax on them.

Brilliant. Do you people EVER think before you post??????

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cain's 9-9-9 plan is a transitional plan to the Fair Tax. He has said so repeatedly on the Neal Boortz radio show.

My problem is that by giving the government the power to impose a sales tax and an income tax at the same time will eventually lead to them taxing the entire system to sustain their favored programs. I want a cap on spending that forces cuts, and revenue restrictions that are impossible to skirt around.

QW, the devil is in the details. Unfortunately, debates are limited to x amount of time per response and the candidates never fully get to explain their ideas and policies. People hear the "pizza man" say he has a 9-9-9 deal where business and people each pay 9% and plus a 9% sales tax and then jump to say why it sounds dumb and won't work. Cain has thought the program thru and there is much more under the surface. He simply doesn't have time to explain it in detail during a debate and the media is too damned lazy to put enough information out to their customers for comparison and contrast. We end up having to do that individually thru our own personal research and lets face it, many Americans are too lazy to do that for themselves. Cain's plan calls for something like 2/3rd's or 3/4th's vote in Congress to increase any element of the tax. It isn't as simple as one party or the other having a simple majority changing it.

I do not think he has thought the problem through. Ignoring the logistical details of implementing a national sales tax, if it is actually implemented it will actually expand governmental control of commerce down to everything that is sold in the US, even things that do not cross state lines. This would effectively eliminate all arguments against the individual mandate, and expand federal power way past what it is now.

Sooner or later progressives and all the big government types are going to realize all the implications of 9-9-9 and jump on the band wagon.

 

[initforme]

I can live with the 9 9 9 thing except a 9 percent corporate tax rate? C'mon. Thats called a giveaway. I'm for lower tax rates, especially for the middle class. But 9 percent? Ok, fine with me. Then start gutting national defense as nothing, I mean nothing, should be protected from the cuts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How can you say that when the poor are being taxed right now at 15%?
IRS Tax table for 2011 has a single person making 8,500.00 tax is 15%.
Under Cain it would be 9%.

I'm looking at the 2009 tax table right now:

Single, 8500 in TAXABLE income - tax is 860 dollars. That's effectively 10%. Keep in mind,

that's after deductions/exemptions/etc. Cain taxes your GROSS INCOME. That, roughly speaking, is the earnings line off your W-2. Compare that to the line where you finally get to your TAXABLE INCOME.

Also keep in mind how much in deductions you get for having children. Cain takes away all of that.

And then, add in the 9% tax on almost everything you buy.

Ok. 9% of OUR gross income right off the W2 is WAY LESS than what we have been paying. We already pay 9% sales tax in Washington on everything except food. So... sounds good to me. Except part of my income is as an independent contractor so I have to pay my own social security and Medicare out of that, so MY tax bracket as an independent or self-employed is MORE.

9-9-9 eliminates all payroll taxes, which should actually bring you into a lower bracket.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How can you say that when the poor are being taxed right now at 15%?
IRS Tax table for 2011 has a single person making 8,500.00 tax is 15%.
Under Cain it would be 9%.

I'm looking at the 2009 tax table right now:

Single, 8500 in TAXABLE income - tax is 860 dollars. That's effectively 10%. Keep in mind,

that's after deductions/exemptions/etc. Cain taxes your GROSS INCOME. That, roughly speaking, is the earnings line off your W-2. Compare that to the line where you finally get to your TAXABLE INCOME.

Also keep in mind how much in deductions you get for having children. Cain takes away all of that.

And then, add in the 9% tax on almost everything you buy.

Ok. 9% of OUR gross income right off the W2 is WAY LESS than what we have been paying. We already pay 9% sales tax in Washington on everything except food. So... sounds good to me. Except part of my income is as an independent contractor so I have to pay my own social security and Medicare out of that, so MY tax bracket as an independent or self-employed is MORE.

1. No, 9% of gross is higher than most middle income people pay. 2. You'll pay 9% on top of the 9% sales tax you're already paying.

 

[Bern80]

The fact that one kook like you will say it doesn't disprove my point.

Please explain the 'kookiness' that everyone should have to pay taxes.

Do you ask that of the people who want to get rid of the capital gains tax, or the corporate tax?

Call capital gains income and tax it like income. Problem solved. Corporations aren't people. Now explain why it is kooky that all PEOPLE should contribute to tax revenue you chicken shit.