But....New Zealand banned guns...and felt morally superior....now their hospitals are filled with gun shot victims? Say What?

[2aguy]

That doesn’t account for the other states in the top tier.

Yeah, the reason the other states have high violent crime rates is the democrat party controlled cities and their policies…..

1) The democrats have handicapped the police in those cities.

2) The democrats and their policies release known, violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again…it is these individuals, not normal gun owners who are driving the violent crime rates…….

 

[2aguy]

You can’t automatically assume their lower gun violence rate is due to their gun control laws. There are other factors. Less poverty, smaller cities, more homogeneous demographics. Correlation of two pieces of data doesn’t automatically mean causation.

Even in the United States the gun violence numbers and gun control laws don’t line up in any predictable way. Cities with stricter gun control laws still have sky high gun crime rates. The criminals still don’t have much difficulty finding guns when they really want them.

Rightwinger doesn’t care…..he is at best a troll, and at worst an anti- gun extremist.

 

[2aguy]

Actually there is something there. In suicides, women attempt it more often, but men succeed more often. Men are much more likely to use a gun and gun is pretty good at killing. If you could limit access to a weapon doing a vulnerable moment, it might prevent that suicide.

Nope…….you then have to explain how South Korea Japan, China, and many European countries and Canada have higher suicide rates than we do…….South Korea and Japan with extreme gun control.

 

[Coyote]

Yeah, the reason the other states have high violent crime rates is the democrat party controlled cities and their policies…..

1) The democrats have handicapped the police in those cities.

2) The democrats and their policies release known, violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again…it is these individuals, not normal gun owners who are driving the violent crime rates…….

Uh huh.

Nope…….you then have to explain how South Korea Japan, China, and many European countries and Canada have higher suicide rates than we do…….South Korea and Japan with extreme gun control.

I’m not talking about suicide or other countries. I’m talking about the US. Every country is different in this regard. In the US it is guns and unlike some other methods it is immediate and irrevocable. Given that getting to the point of attempting it can often be impulsive things like a brief wait period before purchasing a handgun or the ability to temporarily remove guns from someone at risk for suicide makes sense.

 

[Coyote]

You can’t automatically assume their lower gun violence rate is due to their gun control laws. There are other factors. Less poverty, smaller cities, more homogeneous demographics. Correlation of two pieces of data doesn’t automatically mean causation.

Even in the United States the gun violence numbers and gun control laws don’t line up in any predictable way. Cities with stricter gun control laws still have sky high gun crime rates. The criminals still don’t have much difficulty finding guns when they really want them.

I agree that what drives crime rates and gun violence is complicated ( too bad those who harp on race and crime don’t also recognize this) and I agree correlation isn’t necessarily causation. But one piece of data is consistent. In comparable countries to ours, that have stricter gun laws, crimes, violence and deaths related to guns are considerably lower.

Is it fact it is harder to get a gun and penalties harsher? Is a different national relationship to guns? ie a tool, a responsibility, not a “right”? Other?

 

[westwall]

Uh huh.

I’m not talking about suicide or other countries. I’m talking about the US. Every country is different in this regard. In the US it is guns and unlike some other methods it is immediate and irrevocable. Given that getting to the point of attempting it can often be impulsive things like a brief wait period before purchasing a handgun or the ability to temporarily remove guns from someone at risk for suicide makes sense.

Jumping off a building, a bridge, hanging, crashing your car into something. Hanging, Etc. Etc. Etc.

People intent on suicide are successful. Real world statistics prove beyond doubt that guns don't cause suicide.

 

[2aguy]

Uh huh.

I’m not talking about suicide or other countries. I’m talking about the US. Every country is different in this regard. In the US it is guns and unlike some other methods it is immediate and irrevocable. Given that getting to the point of attempting it can often be impulsive things like a brief wait period before purchasing a handgun or the ability to temporarily remove guns from someone at risk for suicide makes sense.

You guys always try this…….those other countries…with extreme gun control…..their people actually kill themselves more than our people do……guns have nothing to do with it……you have no rational point on suicide and guns, since suicide success is based on determination, not guns, as these other countries demonitrate.

 

[2aguy]

I agree that what drives crime rates and gun violence is complicated ( too bad those who harp on race and crime don’t also recognize this) and I agree correlation isn’t necessarily causation. But one piece of data is consistent. In comparable countries to ours, that have stricter gun laws, crimes, violence and deaths related to guns are considerably lower.

Is it fact it is harder to get a gun and penalties harsher? Is a different national relationship to guns? ie a tool, a responsibility, not a “right”? Other?

Moron...we are the ones who recognize this...it is assholes like you who blame guns as the sole reason......

Crime is created by fatherless homes....sadly, the black community in democrat run cities has an out of wedlock birth rate of over75%....this creates generational poverty and crime......fathers help prevent both...baby daddy's do not. Then, when the democrats have created these fatherless homes through their attacks on the traditional family using the welfare state, they then go on to attack the police, handicapping them and then, they refuse to keep violent, repeat, violent criminals in jail and prison....

I keep posting this incident.....we had 5 gang members caught on video shooting at each other on a public street.....two of them on the ground with bullets in them...democrat party states attorney kim foxx, a george soros backed candidate, refused to prosecute any of them..........

these are the reasons we have gun crime..

We don not have gun crime because normal people own and carry guns......but normal people who own and carry guns are the only thing you shitheads focus on...

 

[2aguy]

I agree that what drives crime rates and gun violence is complicated ( too bad those who harp on race and crime don’t also recognize this) and I agree correlation isn’t necessarily causation. But one piece of data is consistent. In comparable countries to ours, that have stricter gun laws, crimes, violence and deaths related to guns are considerably lower.

Is it fact it is harder to get a gun and penalties harsher? Is a different national relationship to guns? ie a tool, a responsibility, not a “right”? Other?

But one piece of data is consistent. In comparable countries to ours, that have stricter gun laws, crimes, violence and deaths related to guns are considerably lower.

Wrong...

IN America.....for 27 years we had an increase in gun ownership and people carrying guns for self defense.....what happened?

According to you, gun violence should have increased....it didn't...

Gun murder went down 49%

Gun crime went down 75%...

How do you explain that......?

It changed in 2015......why....because the democrat party decided to go to war against our police forces....and they ramped up their release programs for violent criminals...

Over the last 27 years, up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why? Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........

Again, you refuse to look at the other factors and focus only on guns....the very countries you point to have criminals who use fully automatic military weapons and grenades as their primary weapons...they simply choose not to murder each other as often as American criminals do...

In America....criminals murder each other...that is where almost all of our gun murder exists......normal gun owners are not shooting people and murdering people with guns...

European criminals use AK-47 military rifles, and they like to throw handgrenades too....but they don't do it as often and they don't murder each other as often...

Our criminals shoot each other over insults, girlfriends and social media posts...theirs dont.....but even that is changing..

Also, their welfare states have just reached the point where their families have completely broken down.....now they are seeing more and more violence from their teenagers...you don't even take that into account...

As their teenagers become more violent, and they also have access to guns....you are going to see an increase in gun violence their...

Look at Sweden......of all the countries in Europe, you wouldn't expect gun violence...but they are one of the worst countries in Europe for gun violence........and the weapons their criminals use are fully automatic military rifles and grenades.......

So you just see guns...you don't see the actual social dynamics that create gun violence...

It isn't guns, it is the culture of the criminals that determines gun violence.....

So....you blame guns.........yet you can't explain why our gun crime rate went down 49%, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, if your theory is that access to guns creates more gun crime....which it didn't for 27 years before the democrat party policies went into effect...........

Of the two of us....who is actually looking at all of the factors?

 

[AZrailwhale]

I sometimes wonder about the wisdom of that.

Why? Farmer's kids have been operating motor vehicles as long as there have been motor vehicles. Kids operate off road vehicles all the time, usually without problems.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Rate of Gun murders in the US > 5x rate of gun murders in New Zealand

math is hard for gun porn consumers Derp Derp Derp

And what's the comparison for gun ownership? Ten thousand to one? Twenty thousand to one? More? What's the number comparing criminals in New Zealand to the USA? Ten thousand to one? More?

 

[AZrailwhale]

This is a lie.

New Zealand did not ‘ban’ guns.

It essentially did. Gun ownership is entirely at the mercy of the police. Only someone they judge worthy who has an essential need can get licensed to possess a gun. Even then almost all firearms are banned. The requirements for a competitive shooter are almost impossible to meet with just some of them being: sponsored by a recognized and official competition shooting club. Attending six matches in twelve months, attending twelve club events in twelve months and on and on. Subjects of the New Zealand government have no right to possess or use weapons at all, not even for self-defense. Armed security guards are even banned.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Actually there is something there. In suicides, women attempt it more often, but men succeed more often. Men are much more likely to use a gun and gun is pretty good at killing. If you could limit access to a weapon doing a vulnerable moment, it might prevent that suicide.

Why do you want to prevent suicide? It's the ultimate personal decision. It's almost always an overreaction, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But what business of yours is it if someone else decides to end his or her life?

 

[daveman]

Why do you want to prevent suicide? It's the ultimate personal decision. It's almost always an overreaction, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But what business of yours is it if someone else decides to end his or her life?

Most irrational anti-gunners don't give a shit about victims of gun violence.

They just want people disarmed.

 

[basquebromance]

"if guns are outlawed, how am i gonna shoot liberals?"

sign i saw yesterday...terrible!

 

[M14 Shooter]

"if guns are outlawed, how am i gonna shoot liberals?"

sign i saw yesterday...terrible!

A completely valid question.