Busy Hurricane Season is predicted for 2024

[ding]

Have you ever noticed that when Trump doubles down on one of his idiotic moves, it is taken as evidence that he's even stupider than thought? I have never said that ocean circulation doesn't change over time. I have never said that changes in ocean circulation couldn't affect climate, particularly regionally. I'm saying that changes in ocean circulation are NOT responsible for the glacial-interglacial cycle nor are they responsible for the warming observed over the past 150 years. That no one has dedicated a study to refuting your contention is simply prima facie evidence that your contention has never been considered a hypothesis worthy of the least pursuit.

And yet overwhelming evidence shows ocean currents are responsible for abrupt warming climate changes and cooling climate changes. The exact same type of abrupt climate changes seen at the transition from interglacial periods to glacial periods.

So if you believe ocean circulation can affect climate you must believe ocean currents can be responsible for warming and cooling trends.

Changes in heat transfer to the Arctic from the Atlantic have global implications. If the Arctic is glaciating the planet is cooling. If the Arctic is deglaciating the planet is warming. No other REGIONAL changes have global implications other than the Arctic.

 

[Crick]

And yet overwhelming evidence shows ocean currents are responsible for abrupt warming climate changes and cooling climate changes. The exact same type of abrupt climate changes seen at the transition from interglacial periods to glacial periods.

So if you believe ocean circulation can affect climate you must believe ocean currents can be responsible for warming and cooling trends.

Changes in heat transfer to the Arctic from the Atlantic have global implications. If the Arctic is glaciating the planet is cooling. If the Arctic is deglaciating the planet is warming. No other REGIONAL changes have global implications other than the Arctic.

Ignoring their inability to produce global changes, your problem all along - and one you have never addressed - is that the glacial-interglacial cycle is periodic and changes in ocean currents are not. End of story.

 

[ding]

Ignoring their inability to produce global changes, your problem all along - and one you have never addressed - is that the glacial-interglacial cycle is periodic and changes in ocean currents are not. End of story.

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

 

[Crick]

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

Have you ever heard the term "one-trick pony"?

 

[ding]

Have you ever heard the term "one-trick pony"?

The last ice age wasn't one long big chill. Dozens of times temperatures abruptly rose or fell, causing all manner of ecological change. Mysteriously, ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica show that these sudden shifts—which occurred every 1500 years or so—were out of sync in the two hemispheres: When it got cold in the north, it grew warm in the south, and vice versa. Now, scientists have implicated the culprit behind those seesaws—changes to a conveyor belt of ocean currents known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC).

These currents, which today drive the Gulf Stream, bring warm surface waters north and send cold, deeper waters south. But they weakened suddenly and drastically, nearly to the point of stopping, just before several periods of abrupt climate change, researchers report today in Science. In a matter of decades, temperatures plummeted in the north, as the currents brought less warmth in that direction. Meanwhile, the backlog of warm, southern waters allowed the Southern Hemisphere to heat up.

AMOC slowdowns have long been suspected as the cause of the climate swings during the last ice age, which lasted from 110,000 to 15,000 years ago, but never definitively shown. The new study "is the best demonstration that this indeed happened," says Jerry McManus, a paleo-oceanographer at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, and a study author. "It is very convincing evidence," adds Andreas Schmittner, a climate scientist at Oregon State University, Corvallis. "We did not know that the circulation changed during these shorter intervals."

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

 

[Crick]

The last ice age wasn't one long big chill. Dozens of times temperatures abruptly rose or fell, causing all manner of ecological change. Mysteriously, ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica show that these sudden shifts—which occurred every 1500 years or so—were out of sync in the two hemispheres: When it got cold in the north, it grew warm in the south, and vice versa. Now, scientists have implicated the culprit behind those seesaws—changes to a conveyor belt of ocean currents known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC).

For the umpteenth time, this is not describing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

These currents, which today drive the Gulf Stream, bring warm surface waters north and send cold, deeper waters south. But they weakened suddenly and drastically, nearly to the point of stopping, just before several periods of abrupt climate change, researchers report today in Science. In a matter of decades, temperatures plummeted in the north, as the currents brought less warmth in that direction. Meanwhile, the backlog of warm, southern waters allowed the Southern Hemisphere to heat up.

Not addressing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

AMOC slowdowns have long been suspected as the cause of the climate swings during the last ice age, which lasted from 110,000 to 15,000 years ago, but never definitively shown. The new study "is the best demonstration that this indeed happened," says Jerry McManus, a paleo-oceanographer at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, and a study author. "It is very convincing evidence," adds Andreas Schmittner, a climate scientist at Oregon State University, Corvallis. "We did not know that the circulation changed during these shorter intervals."

Not addressing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

You have not presented a SINGLE REFERENCE that has stated, suggested or even hinted that changes in ocean currents are responsible for the glacial-interglacial cycle. Why can you not see that you are wrong? Are you under the impression that your hypothesis is of diving origin?

 

[ding]

For the umpteenth time, this is not describing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

Not addressing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

Not addressing the glacial-interglacial cycle.

You have not presented a SINGLE REFERENCE that has stated, suggested or even hinted that changes in ocean currents are responsible for the glacial-interglacial cycle. Why can you not see that you are wrong? Are you under the impression that your hypothesis is of diving origin?

...direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126...6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1723213472

 

[Crick]

...direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID=24445298415631476812898182430771639861|MCORGID=242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1723213472

You're on your own asshole.

 

[ding]

You're on your own asshole.

Why do you deny the direct evidence of the ocean's persistent, central role in abrupt glacial and interglacial climate change?

 

[Crick]

Why do you deny the direct evidence of the ocean's persistent, central role in abrupt glacial and interglacial climate change?

Why do you lie?

 

[ding]

Why do you lie?

Maybe read the link, dummy.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID=24445298415631476812898182430771639861|MCORGID=242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1723213472

The most recent ice age was characterized by rapid and hemispherically asynchronous climate oscillations, whose origin remains unresolved. Variations in oceanic meridional heat transport may contribute to these repeated climate changes, which were most pronounced during marine isotope stage 3, the glacial interval 25 thousand to 60 thousand years ago. We examined climate and ocean circulation proxies throughout this interval at high resolution in a deep North Atlantic sediment core, combining the kinematic tracer protactinium/thorium (Pa/Th) with the deep water-mass tracer, epibenthic δ13C. These indicators suggest reduced Atlantic overturning circulation during every cool northern stadial, with the greatest reductions during episodic Hudson Strait iceberg discharges, while sharp northern warming followed reinvigorated overturning. These results provide direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

 

[Crick]

Maybe read the link, dummy.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID=24445298415631476812898182430771639861|MCORGID=242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1723213472

The most recent ice age was characterized by rapid and hemispherically asynchronous climate oscillations, whose origin remains unresolved. Variations in oceanic meridional heat transport may contribute to these repeated climate changes, which were most pronounced during marine isotope stage 3, the glacial interval 25 thousand to 60 thousand years ago. We examined climate and ocean circulation proxies throughout this interval at high resolution in a deep North Atlantic sediment core, combining the kinematic tracer protactinium/thorium (Pa/Th) with the deep water-mass tracer, epibenthic δ13C. These indicators suggest reduced Atlantic overturning circulation during every cool northern stadial, with the greatest reductions during episodic Hudson Strait iceberg discharges, while sharp northern warming followed reinvigorated overturning. These results provide direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

 

[ding]

"...the Eemian was punctuated by many short-lived cold events, as shown by variations in electrical conductivity (a proxy for windblown dust, with more dust indicating colder, more arid conditions) and stable oxygen isotopes (a proxy for air temperature) of the ice were used by these workers infer the climatic conditions during the Eemian. The cold events seemed to last a few thousand years, and the magnitude of cooling was similar to the difference between glacial and interglacial conditions; a very dramatic contrast in climate. Furthermore, the shifts between these warm and cold periods seemed to be extremely rapid, possibly occurring over a few decades or less...."

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

Hmmmm.... examples of natural warming and cooling trends within an interglacial period which occurred suddenly.

Opps... there goes that unprecedented warming theory.

 

[Crick]

"...the Eemian was punctuated by many short-lived cold events, as shown by variations in electrical conductivity (a proxy for windblown dust, with more dust indicating colder, more arid conditions) and stable oxygen isotopes (a proxy for air temperature) of the ice were used by these workers infer the climatic conditions during the Eemian. The cold events seemed to last a few thousand years, and the magnitude of cooling was similar to the difference between glacial and interglacial conditions; a very dramatic contrast in climate. Furthermore, the shifts between these warm and cold periods seemed to be extremely rapid, possibly occurring over a few decades or less...."

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

Hmmmm.... examples of natural warming and cooling trends within an interglacial period which occurred suddenly.

Opps... there goes that unprecedented warming theory.

I'm sure Todd would ask you what your chronological resolution might be. That "within a few decades or less" is pure conjecture.

Any chance you're going to respond to that James Hansen thread? James Hansen Wishes he Wasn’t So Right about Global Warming

 

[ding]

I'm sure Todd would ask you what your chronological resolution might be. That "within a few decades or less" is pure conjecture.

Any chance you're going to respond to that James Hansen thread? James Hansen Wishes he Wasn’t So Right about Global Warming

I love it when you argue against scientific papers that upend your beliefs.

"...the Eemian was punctuated by many short-lived cold events, as shown by variations in electrical conductivity (a proxy for windblown dust, with more dust indicating colder, more arid conditions) and stable oxygen isotopes (a proxy for air temperature) of the ice were used by these workers infer the climatic conditions during the Eemian. The cold events seemed to last a few thousand years, and the magnitude of cooling was similar to the difference between glacial and interglacial conditions; a very dramatic contrast in climate. Furthermore, the shifts between these warm and cold periods seemed to be extremely rapid, possibly occurring over a few decades or less...."

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

 

[Crick]

I love it when you argue against scientific papers that upend your beliefs.

"...the Eemian was punctuated by many short-lived cold events, as shown by variations in electrical conductivity (a proxy for windblown dust, with more dust indicating colder, more arid conditions) and stable oxygen isotopes (a proxy for air temperature) of the ice were used by these workers infer the climatic conditions during the Eemian. The cold events seemed to last a few thousand years, and the magnitude of cooling was similar to the difference between glacial and interglacial conditions; a very dramatic contrast in climate. Furthermore, the shifts between these warm and cold periods seemed to be extremely rapid, possibly occurring over a few decades or less...."

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

You have not presented a single paper that argues against my beliefs.

 

[ding]

You have not presented a single paper that argues against my beliefs.

I disagree. It's you who has presented no papers.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D24445298415631476812898182430771639861%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1723213472

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature

Destabilisation of the Subpolar North Atlantic prior to the Little Ice Age - Nature Communications

Snapshots of mean ocean temperature over the last 700 000 years using noble gases in the EPICA Dome C ice core

Abstract. Together with the latent heat stored in glacial ice sheets, the ocean heat uptake carries the lion's share of glacial–interglacial changes in the planetary heat content, but little direct information on the global mean ocean temperature (MOT) is available to constrain the ocean...

cp.copernicus.org

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018285800201

Deep Atlantic Circulation During the Last Glacial Maximum and Deglaciation​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/PA005i004p00469

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA0020

 

[Crick]

I disagree. It's you who has presented no papers.

Liar

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D24445298415631476812898182430771639861%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1723213472

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature

Destabilisation of the Subpolar North Atlantic prior to the Little Ice Age - Nature Communications

Snapshots of mean ocean temperature over the last 700 000 years using noble gases in the EPICA Dome C ice core

Abstract. Together with the latent heat stored in glacial ice sheets, the ocean heat uptake carries the lion's share of glacial–interglacial changes in the planetary heat content, but little direct information on the global mean ocean temperature (MOT) is available to constrain the ocean...

cp.copernicus.org

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018285800201

Deep Atlantic Circulation During the Last Glacial Maximum and Deglaciation​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/PA005i004p00469

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA0020

None of which address the glacial-interglacial cycle

 

[ding]

Liar

None of which address the glacial-interglacial cycle

I'm addressing how the ocean is responsible for abrupt climate changes.

These results provide direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change

The idea of Gulf Stream slowdowns as a mechanism in climate change is not merely theoretical

It is very convincing evidence

These results confirm the significance of variations in the rate of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation for abrupt climate changes

 

[Crick]

I'm addressing how the ocean is responsible for abrupt climate changes.

You are dodging any discussion of your ORIGINAL CLAIM because it FAILED and you're just too much of a COWARD to admit to it.