Business Insider misleads its readers on birthright citizenship.

[Wapasha]

If born in the US, and not the child of a foreign diplomat, automatically confers citizenship on the child.

Any other interp is bad law.

Anybody standing on US soil is subject to its jurisdiction, excepting foreign diplomats.

No, they are not subject to US jurisdiction. Do they have to obey the laws concerning their conduct? Yes, but that is only a limited form of civil jurisdiction. They are not citizens of the US, they are still sovereign citizens of France, Spain, Jamaica, etc... The US government has no jurisdiction over them beyond the permission we extend to their visit in our country, and that we ask them to obey our laws concerning their personal conduct as it applies to them as a foreign visitor.

Can we demand adult male visitors from France be drafted into our military? No.
Can we demand they pay state and federal income taxes once they set foot on US soil? No
Can we annul their marriage because it violates US marriage laws? No. Because they are citizens of a foreign nation.

remember, just two years before the 14th amendment, they wrote:

The Civil Rights Act of 1866:
That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States; and such citizens, of every race and color, without regard to any previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude...

Which is just another way of saying All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. A person who is a citizen of another nation is not a subject of the USA and not subject thereof, they are a subject of another nation.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Wapasha is pushing a legal conspiracy theory not in accordance with the Constitution, standing law, and SCOTUS.

It can be ignored without further rebuttal.

 

[Wapasha]

Wapasha is pushing a legal conspiracy theory not in accordance with the Constitution, standing law, and SCOTUS.

It can be ignored without further rebuttal.

Translation, you don't agree with me, based on nothing you can defend, and you want the bad man silenced

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Wapasha has made no argument in law that the federal courts recognize.

I don't have to reject. He has to evidence it conclusively and has failed to do so.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

They are citizens. What JohnWK or those like think are not IAW the law.

 

[surada]

We remain US citizens when we travel abroad. Foreign nations cannot assume jurisdiction over US citizens simply because we set foot inside their borders. What you are claiming is that we lose all Rights as a US citizen, and any foreign nation we visit can assume jurisdiction over us, and draft us into their military, take our possessions, etc...

All foreign nations have is jurisdiction over their local laws, which govern some aspects of our conduct while inside their borders. For example, to protect their citizens from us committing harm to them. we have treaties with every nation, where both the nation we visit, and our own nation will respect our rights as US citizens. We sign treaties with France, which stipulate that if a US citizen visits France and commits one of a limited, and specific agreed upon list of crimes, than the French authorities have limited and detailed authority to prosecute us for said crimes. That's it. They have a limit legal jurisdiction to enforce only a certain and specific list of their laws.

Foreign nation do not have unlimited jurisdiction over the entire person of a visiting foreigner, its a very limited legal jurisdiction over personal conduct.

It's the same thing here in the US between the 50 states. We are free to drive into Minnesota, and the state does have legal jurisdiction to enforce certain laws which govern our conduct as we visit their state. I can use my WI driver's license to drive a car in their state, but I cannot use my WI fishing license to fish in MN. At the same time, MN cannot arrest me for not paying state income or property taxes to MN.

The point is, US jurisdiction over a foreign citizen who visits the US is very limited. We do not have complete jurisdiction over them, and we definitely do not have jurisdiction over their citizenship.

The US has no jurisdiction over US citizens abroad, you idiot.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

surada is correct, of course, and Wapsha lives in a CT world.

 

[surada]

No, they are not subject to US jurisdiction. Do they have to obey the laws concerning their conduct? Yes, but that is only a limited form of civil jurisdiction. They are not citizens of the US, they are still sovereign citizens of France, Spain, Jamaica, etc... The US government has no jurisdiction over them beyond the permission we extend to their visit in our country, and that we ask them to obey our laws concerning their personal conduct as it applies to them as a foreign visitor.

Can we demand adult male visitors from France be drafted into our military? No.
Can we demand they pay state and federal income taxes once they set foot on US soil? No
Can we annul their marriage because it violates US marriage laws? No. Because they are citizens of a foreign nation.

remember, just two years before the 14th amendment, they wrote:

The Civil Rights Act of 1866:
That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States; and such citizens, of every race and color, without regard to any previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude...

Which is just another way of saying All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. A person who is a citizen of another nation is not a subject of the USA and not subject thereof, they are a subject of another nation.

Lol.. only the US has jurisdiction in the United States. It doesn't matter where you are from...or whether your a tourist or illegal you are subject to US jurisdiction.

Everyone except diplomats are subject to US jurisdiction.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Wapasha, you are always subject to US jurisdiction, wherever you are. You commit a crime in Cambodia, the US can get you here if you come back.

 

[surada]

Wapasha, you are always subject to US jurisdiction, wherever you are. You commit a crime in Cambodia, the US can get you here if you come back.

What?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Do child sex in Cambodia, we can try you here when you come home.

 

[surada]

Do child sex in Cambodia, we can try you here when you come home.

That's an exception. So are extradition treaties. The US has no jurisdiction over US citizens abroad. Too many idiot Americans think if they break the law in another country uncle Sam or the US ambassador can fix it.

That's why Biden can't order Americans to leave Sudan or Afghanistan.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

But the US can and does try citizens for stupidities and crimes from overseas in American courts.

 

[surada]

But the US can and does try citizens for stupidities and crimes from overseas in American courts.

I'm not versed in that. I know that sex tourism is an exception.

 

[Wapasha]

The US has no jurisdiction over US citizens abroad, you idiot.

No need for insults. We are still US citizens no matter which country we visit. As I said, we do not lose our Rights as a citizen of the US, and those Rights are guaranteed thru the treaties all these nations sign with the US.

If you travel to Singapore or South Korea, can they revoke your US passport and force you to join their nation's military for two years, like they do to all their adult males citizens???? No, because they do not have jurisdiction over foreign citizens who visit their country. The only thing they have is a limited jurisdiction over your conduct and actions in that country, so you do not harm their citizens while visiting. And even then, the treaty the US signs with those nations list specific crimes they can, and which crimes they cannot prosecute US citizens for, and which crimes they can only deport you for.

My advice to you, don't respond to topics like this for which you are ignorant about, and you won't look like a fool.

 

[surada]

No need for insults. We are still US citizens no matter which country we visit. As I said, we do not lose our Rights as a citizen of the US, and those Rights are guaranteed thru the treaties all these nations sign with the US.

If you travel to Singapore or South Korea, can they revoke your US passport and force you to join their nation's military for two years, like they do to all their adult males citizens???? No, because they do not have jurisdiction over foreign citizens who visit their country. The only thing they have is a limited jurisdiction over your conduct and actions in that country, so you do not harm their citizens while visiting. And even then, the treaty the US signs with those nations list specific crimes they can, and which crimes they cannot prosecute US citizens for, and which crimes they can only deport you for.

My advice to you, don't respond to topics like this for which you are ignorant about, and you won't look like a fool.

You have to obey their laws when you're in their country. They do have jurisdiction .

 

[Wapasha]

That's an exception. So are extradition treaties. The US has no jurisdiction over US citizens abroad. Too many idiot Americans think if they break the law in another country uncle Sam or the US ambassador can fix it.

That's why Biden can't order Americans to leave Sudan or Afghanistan.

We sign treaties with those nations. If you visit there, and commit a crime that the treaty says they can prosecute you for, then you are screwed. That is different then you thinking they have full and complete jurisdiction over your person, as legal visitor with a US passport.

 

[Unkotare]

No need for insults. We are still US citizens no matter which country we visit. As I said, we do not lose our Rights as a citizen of the US, and those Rights are guaranteed thru the treaties all these nations sign with the US.

If you travel to Singapore or South Korea, can they revoke your US passport and force you to join their nation's military for two years, like they do to all their adult males citizens???? No, because they do not have jurisdiction over foreign citizens who visit their country. The only thing they have is a limited jurisdiction over your conduct and actions in that country, so you do not harm their citizens while visiting. And even then, the treaty the US signs with those nations list specific crimes they can, and which crimes they cannot prosecute US citizens for, and which crimes they can only deport you for.

My advice to you, don't respond to topics like this for which you are ignorant about, and you won't look like a fool.

If you break the law in South Korea, you will be arrested in South Korea, beaten half to hell in South Korea, and thrown in jail in South Korea.

 

[surada]

We sign treaties with those nations. If you visit there, and commit a crime that the treaty says they can prosecute you for, then you are screwed. That is different then you thinking they have full and complete jurisdiction over your person, as legal visitor with a US passport.

Nope. Our treaties have to do with extradition not which of their laws Americans can ignore.

 

[Wapasha]

You have to obey their laws when you're in their country. They do have jurisdiction .

I said that. These nations need to have control over the conduct and behavior of visitors. They need to be able to protect their nations from the harmful and disruptive actions of the people visiting their nation.

It's similar in and anecdotal way to people who visit your home, or shop in a store you might own. You can kick them out for being rude. You can call the police if they commit crimes, and your store security can detain them for the police if you shoplift. But other than that they do not have jurisdiction over your person.