Bible as the "word of God".

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The bible is the word of man, who created religion and gods, imbued with man's ignorance, fear, and failings – which is why the bible is completely devoid of secular authority, as wisely and appropriately codified in the First Amendment.

 

[irosie91]

The bible is the word of man, who created religion and gods, imbued with man's ignorance, fear, and failings – which is why the bible is completely devoid of secular authority, as wisely and appropriately codified in the First Amendment.

you are just as annoying as are the board sunday school
teachers

 

[emilynghiem]

I am an ancient greek plays geek-------sorry---but
your post is incoherent. Greek plays are highly structured.

I am talking about the CONCEPT:
of WOMEN banding together to hold MEN to account
to stop their wars. or in this case, the abuse of
religion to commit genocide.

If all women stand together across all nations and religions,
this would put public pressure on men to stand together to stop the killings and rape.

What do you think of that concept irosie91?

Using the Internet to connect ALL Women and ALL groups
who are fed up like you are and want this abomination to be STOPPED.

I am very aware of the power of women----especially the
power of MOTHERS over their sons------especially in some
societies-----interestingly-----mothers control their sons most
notably (IMHO) in muslim, hindu and jewish groups----
the difference being that the control part gets transferred to WIFE----amongst jews-----but stays with mothers amongst
muslims and hindus (IMHO) I blame it all on the
MOTHERS. (a few wives---but mostly on the mothers)

I have seen examples even here in the US-----the mothers

Reminds me of this statement, that men are not equal to women
because of motherhood. If this is respected correctly, it is empowering.
If it becomes oppressive like trying to keep women in the home instead of driving, it backfires!

Erdogan women are not equal to men - Yahoo News

 

[irosie91]

I am an ancient greek plays geek-------sorry---but
your post is incoherent. Greek plays are highly structured.

I am talking about the CONCEPT:
of WOMEN banding together to hold MEN to account
to stop their wars. or in this case, the abuse of
religion to commit genocide.

If all women stand together across all nations and religions,
this would put public pressure on men to stand together to stop the killings and rape.

What do you think of that concept irosie91?

Using the Internet to connect ALL Women and ALL groups
who are fed up like you are and want this abomination to be STOPPED.

I am very aware of the power of women----especially the
power of MOTHERS over their sons------especially in some
societies-----interestingly-----mothers control their sons most
notably (IMHO) in muslim, hindu and jewish groups----
the difference being that the control part gets transferred to WIFE----amongst jews-----but stays with mothers amongst
muslims and hindus (IMHO) I blame it all on the
MOTHERS. (a few wives---but mostly on the mothers)

I have seen examples even here in the US-----the mothers

Reminds me of this statement, that men are not equal to women
because of motherhood. If this is respected correctly, it is empowering.
If it becomes oppressive like trying to keep women in the home instead of driving, it backfires!

Erdogan women are not equal to men - Yahoo News

the real problem----as I have observed it -----is that mothers
attain POWER thru their sons------in the three groups I mentioned (hindus, jews and muslims)----amongst jews---
that power gets transferred to whatever the son marries-----
(sometimes for the mother it is "that *****" ---but "that *****"
does have the power) For muslims and hindus----
the power stays with the mother and the mother has an
interest in making sure that "my son's wife"----has no power.----even worse----even the girl's mother has no
interest in changing the power hierarchy-----she benefits from
it in the home of HER SONS. In those systems----a woman's brothers are no help either. Women are stuck----
all they want is a few sons of their own ----at which point THEY perpetuate the system. I blame the mothers

well------hindu and muslim and I believe Japanese and Chinese MOTHERS--------all perpetuating the oppression
of their daughters----making them weak and unable to
control those boys-------no wonder muslim mothers
do not object when their daughters TIE A BOMB ON

in order to understand why these systems are cannot be changed thru an act of congress-----read Erikson Childhood and Society (I think---or it may be Erich Fromm)

 

[emilynghiem]

The bible is the word of man, who created religion and gods, imbued with man's ignorance, fear, and failings – which is why the bible is completely devoid of secular authority, as wisely and appropriately codified in the First Amendment.

Dear C_Clayton_Jones:
But Constitutional laws do not heal cancer and drug addictions.
Christian teachings on forgiveness therapy and spiritual healing HAVE.

So we need both.

The government is under civil secular laws based on Natural laws.
The church is under spiritual laws that are expressed and taught through Scripture.

The First Amendment and Constitution WISELY protect
"free exercise of religion" and "equal protection from discrimination by creed"

So these other spiritual teachings are NEEDED
but they operate by FREE WILL and CANNOT be legislated or regulated by Govt.

Grow up C_Clayton_Jones

irosie91 is right
anyone like you can stand around and preach.

How many people were saved from drug addiction and death by your naysaying of Christianity?

I had a close friend almost DIE of the longterm effects of drug abuse,
and the only thing that got the rages and self-destruction to stop
was CHRISTIAN HEALING PRAYER.

He is atheist and still is, and the Christian Healing prayer WORKED.
it STOPPED the demonic rages and voices that drove him to drink, smoke and self-destruct.

C_Clayton_Jones
one of my close friends since 1991 is only alive today
because he agreed to receive Christian heaing prayer
even though he is atheist and cannot stand Christians.

You can hate going to the doctor, but the doctor can save your life.

How DARE you preach against things that save lives.

How selfish are you?
You would rather people die of drug abuse
just because YOU don't like Christians?

Here are people who VOLUNTEER and have saved lives FOR FREE
Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries
Healing Is Yours
just because Christian spiritual healing works and has saved people from
* mental illness like schizophrenia that was CURED
also multiple personalities caused by demons, and even sexual addictions like pedophilia have been cured
though these cases are rare and relapse is more common (those who are healed mentally still do not act on their addictions
even if the addiction remains, that's how you can tell how far along they are in their process, if they are in denial or seek help, unlike you who doesn't even see there is anything good in Christianity. even drug addicts and gang members recognize
this and got help to save their lives from crime and destruction. Why is this so bad that you have to denounce it?)
* physical illness including cancer, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis,
and one pastor I met whose rare kidney or liver disease was cured
which doctors cannot explain. she said her case is documented in the TX Medical Center
as a very rare case that should have killed her.
* relationship issues from sex abuse to gang and drug crimes
changed and cured by Christian healing prayer

HOW many people have you saved from death and destruction
by preaching against Christianity?

C_Clayton_Jones
If you want me to start a Bullring thread
I can challenge you that Christianity is necessary
and there are lives, minds and relationships saved
that could not be done any other way.

Do you want to go to the Bullring?
Do you really believe there is more evil
by Christianity that there is good?

I challenge you, C_Clayton_Jones
to replicate the work done by
* Dr. Francis MacNutt
* Dr. Phillip Goldfedder
* Olivia Reiner in Houston
by other means besides Christian healing prayer.

If you can replicate their work and save lives from cancer,
mental and criminal illness, stop sexual abuse, and turn
gang members around into community volunteers
WITHOUT Christianity GO AHEAD DO IT!!!!

If not, if you are indirectly benefitting from the work of others
by FREE EXERCISE of RELIGION
then QUIT bitching about the people practicing their Constitutional rights.

They are doing more good than you are.
If not PROVE it.

PROVE you can heal cancer with your Constitutional talk.

 

[Muslim75]

Hollie and Emily,

The source of the knowledge of Islam (libraries are filled with tons of books) is not just the Qur'an. There is also the Hadiths which are the sayings of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). These explain what the Qur'an says. Then there are also the teachings of the saints of Islam and these saints still exist today (but Muslims generally don't like to be with them). Overall, it makes for 3 sources.

Islam provides chances for everyone. Everyone is born pure in Islam. Islam judges people according to their righteouness. So Islam comes with open arms, but when you come with open arms, people will cheat you. That's why there is so many evils within the Muslims, because Islam comes before them with arms open. It is a sign that this religion is true.

Yes, Islam teaches to hate sinners. They incur divine displeasure, and out of love for God you hate them. But ultimately you know it was only God who did those bad things, so you don't hate them. You must find a balance.

What reform is needed in Islam ? The Islamic knowledge is out there for everyone, but no one is willing to accept it. They prefer the easy ways. Islam is very clear, you are not to fight for Islam. What Muhammad and his Companions did was for their time only, as God ordered Muhammad to fight (during that time). It has been quite long since Islam stopped the order of waging war against the non-Muslims.

Moreover, Islam does not wish to enter the United States. There are Islamic lands and there are other lands. But it's true the Muslims in the United States may have another agenda. But Islam is one thing, the Muslims are another thing.

As to equality, men and women are perfectly equal; the same way people of different races are equal. Scholars will sometimes claim the opposite because they are not well intentioned.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hollie and Emily,

The source of the knowledge of Islam (libraries are filled with tons of books) is not just the Qur'an. There is also the Hadiths which are the sayings of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). These explain what the Qur'an says. Then there are also the teachings of the saints of Islam and these saints still exist today (but Muslims generally don't like to be with them). Overall, it makes for 3 sources.

Islam provides chances for everyone. Everyone is born pure in Islam. Islam judges people according to their righteouness. So Islam comes with open arms, but when you come with open arms, people will cheat you. That's why there is so many evils within the Muslims, because Islam comes before them with arms open. It is a sign that this religion is true.

Yes, Islam teaches to hate sinners. They incur divine displeasure, and out of love for God you hate them. But ultimately you know it was only God who did those bad things, so you don't hate them. You must find a balance.

What reform is needed in Islam ? The Islamic knowledge is out there for everyone, but no one is willing to accept it. They prefer the easy ways. Islam is very clear, you are not to fight for Islam. What Muhammad and his Companions did was for their time only, as God ordered Muhammad to fight (during that time). It has been quite long since Islam stopped the order of waging war against the non-Muslims.

Moreover, Islam does not wish to enter the United States. There are Islamic lands and there are other lands. But it's true the Muslims in the United States may have another agenda. But Islam is one thing, the Muslims are another thing.

As to equality, men and women are perfectly equal; the same way people of different races are equal. Scholars will sometimes claim the opposite because they are not well intentioned.

Thank you, Muslim75
What I recommend to be reformed
is to resolve the issues over Jesus and teach these consistently.
So that Jews Christians and Muslim can unite without
anyone accusing the other of teaching it wrong.

And also there must be an agreed way to rebuke
and redress any grievances of ABUSE of Islam,
such as the Boko Haram and the ISIS fighters kidnapping and raping more victims.

This is common sense.

If there is a car or other product produced by a company
that is not safe, or people are abusing that product,
then the people ASK the company and distributors
for help to stop the abuse.

So if the lack of consensus with other
Christians, or the lack of enforcement of
democratic civil principles ALLOWS religions like Islam
to be abused by militant Jihadists, this needs to be resolved.

it is not enough to say anyone is free to produce a car
or to buy a product.

If there is something missing, or people are not
using that product correctly (such as baby seats or
toys that too easily cause suffocation or strangulation)
then people study or recall such products to find and fix the problem.

There are many people who follow the instructions
and do not cause problems. But if 10% of the population
is suffering from abuses, and that is affecting millions of people,
then something is wrong.

Muslim75 I am not just picking on Islam.

I found MAJOR problems with Jehovah's Witnesses rejecting
spiritual healing while denouncing surgeries that require blood transfers.
So people were refusing medical treatments and this was costing lives over religion.

I found something missing from Buddhism, too.
Other teachers have added "engaged Buddhism" or "social action" that is missing.
So this could also be recognized and made official to complete the teachings.

In general I found that for any religion, business or charity, or even political policy practiced in the US
the larger institutions have collective power and corporations are considered free persons;
so these larger collective groups should be held to EQUAL checks and balances
as the govt is under the Bill of Rights and Constitutional protections of individual citizens.
Otherwise, these collective institutions (not just religious, but nonprofits, business corporations,
and political parties) can be ABUSED to oppress and abuse individuals with less power and defense to protect themselves.

So it's a bigger problem with ANY large group that has a collective membership under one policy.

Any religion can be abused, not just Christianity or Islam that are the most visible targets for people to criticize.

So we need to agree on civil procedures for redressing grievances,
resolving conflicts, and preventing any kind of abuse or oppression
by politics or by religion, or by any other large organization with potential to do damage because of the size of its membership.

Thank you Muslim75
I appreciate your patience and sharing
your knowledge and explanations.

I believe all religions should be taught correctly
so we can avoid these problems with political abuses.

Yours truly, Peace be unto you!
Emily

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE
emily[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Muslim75
What I recommend to be reformed
is to resolve the issues over Jesus and teach these consistently.
So that Jews Christians and Muslim can unite without
anyone accusing the other of teaching it wrong.


Emily what "issues over Jesus" bother you?

To what does the "IT" refer in
"without anyone accusing the other of teaching
"it" wrong" ???

 

[Hawkins]

Is an insult to God. At least the Higher Power, Creator I believe in.

The Bible is a representation of the spiritual writings, letters, stories, and mythologies of early Mesopotamia.

That remains as your own faith (baseless one) to believe so. You are speaking in the name of your own faith.

It contains many powerful and inspiring stories. But it also contains evidence of a brutal and inhuman society that stoned people to death, treated women as property, and owned slaves...

You misread what is said. The Jews were living in the midst of brutal humans with religious practice of killing children. God separated Israel from them to foreshadow how He would do to Christians, to save them from being the captive sinners. God allowed the Jews to adapt the "eye for eye and tooth for tooth" policy such that the Jews can survive their brutal enemies. Or else, the Jews would be the first to be wiped out by their enemies. God's plan for the salvation of humans till today would have been put to and end, along with the vanishing of Israel.

As for the slave system, you misread again. There were two "slavery" system co-existed at that time. One is the world's practice of slavery. The other is a labor system serving the purpose of helping the poor. There was no life time enslaving between Hebrews, say, a slave will be freed after 7 years of service. And the Bible also specifies that the Hebrew slaves shall be well treated as workers instead of true slaves. As for enslaving between Hebrew and non-Hebrew. The "eye for eye" rule is still in place. That is, if the Jews can be enslaved (and killed like animals) by the Egyptians, the Jews can do the same to the Egyptians. However, after entering Canaan, God's main effort is to educate the Jews to be good guys such that they are actually not allowed to kill the non-Hebrew slaves.

The Old Testament portrays God as a pissy old man wondering around the desert, playing cruel jokes on his people... "kill your son... just kidding!"

The OT main theme is that, Canaan is a field of harvest. The Jews are God's seeds of salvation. God planted them in Canaan such that His tree of salvation will grow to save humans at a later stage (such as today's human). Intensive care was paid to the Jews and the Jews' enemies were eradicated without mercy. Or else the opposite may occur, that is the Jews may be wiped out to put God's salvation plan to an end.

In Abraham's case, God would like to have the following to be witnessed.

Other religions in middle east had the religious ritual of killing children for the false gods. So if they had such faith in the false gods, Abraham should have the same faith in the true God.

We humans are limited in our imaginations, in that we always portray our God's in human form.

The bible is an imperfect collection of early writings, that can all too easily be manipulated to Man's ill-will. The Bible has been used to justify so many awful things, God's word? Hardly.

You speak for your faith/belief/religion/imagination again. Humans' lack of intelligence is famous. Humans' arrogance is famous too.

 

[irosie91]

Hawkins-----tell me that you are studying to be a Christian cleric---so I can laugh. -------but I can help you-----it relates
to a very basic issue that you do not understand----
TORTS----not kidding-----right there in ancient times in
the middle east there developed a TORT SYSTEM---
just think about it a bit-------I will come back to you

 

[Muslim75]

Emily,

Let me remind you that in Islam Jesus is an honoured prophet, out of 124 000 honoured prophets. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) is known as the Seal of the prophets. He is the last of all the prophets and the best of them, and the beloved of God Almighty.

What follows is also adressed to C_Clayton_Jones. The freedom of religion America boasts of is inspired by Islam. Freedom of religion, that's an Islamic concept. It's not Christian.

 

[Dajjal]

Emily,

Let me remind you that in Islam Jesus is an honoured prophet, out of 124 000 honoured prophets. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) is known as the Seal of the prophets. He is the last of all the prophets and the best of them, and the beloved of God Almighty.

What follows is also adressed to C_Clayton_Jones. The freedom of religion America boasts of is inspired by Islam. Freedom of religion, that's an Islamic concept. It's not Christian.

The Quran says Jesus was not the son of God but it also says he was not crucified. Since there are a large number of verses in the four books of the disciples giving a lucid account of the crucifixion either the bible is made up story's or the Quran is all lies. I subscribe to the latter, and consider Muhammad a false prophet.

Matthew 7:15-20New King James Version
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them".

The fruits of Muhammad are terrible wars, and acts of savagery that are going in the world today.

 

[emilynghiem]

[QUOTE
emily

Thank you, Muslim75
What I recommend to be reformed
is to resolve the issues over Jesus and teach these consistently.
So that Jews Christians and Muslim can unite without
anyone accusing the other of teaching it wrong.


Emily what "issues over Jesus" bother you?

To what does the "IT" refer in
"without anyone accusing the other of teaching
"it" wrong" ???[/QUOTE]

Hi irosie:
I mean the whole process that Jesus symbolizes of Justice coming to be embodied by man.
If this is taught in a confusing way, it causes unnecessary reject and division among l
Christians, Jews and Muslims instead of uniting all of us by our common concern for Justice.

If we teach Jesus as the spirit of universal Justice that all people are learning to embrace,
then this makes us "one in Christ" by agreeing in the spirit of Truth by Conscience.

This is a deep spiritual process of resolving all errors and conflicts
so we can be assured we really are on the same page, and not as you pointed out
enabling or ignoring falsehoods or propagating dangerous propaganda. We need to fix all that.

So the meaning of Jesus Christ is the spirit of Restorative Justice that empowers
and connects people to redress all these grievances, so we can stand together
based on God's truth, not divided by lies or misunderstanding of what is or isn't.

Thank you irosie
Since I do not come from the same background as those
who have experienced Catholics being antisemitic, or whatever
else has gone on that had historically divided Jews and Christians
(pardon me if I am not describing it historically) I have asked a friend
of mine who is even more opposed to Islam, and has experience
of where the Jews and Christians have come from, why some are
reconciled and some are not. So I asked her to come join this thread
and maybe she can explain the process better since that is her background.

My background is coming from a secular background,
brought up with Vietnamese Buddhist parents, and having Christian
friends around me since I am in Texas and that is a regular accepted
part of the culture to express that openly with no big deal.

And my spiritual understanding came to me without having any
previous knowledge or training of either Buddhism or Christianity.
Suddenly I got the message, the vision from God that the Truth
was one, that all these religions were teaching it in different ways,
but they had not completely united and put together all the part together
to see the big picture. So all these things were being "fulfilled in Christ"
and this process is what the Bible was teaching about.

I got the message and meaning first, and then I had to struggle to learn how to
say it using Buddhist language to talk with Buddhists, and Christian
language to talk with Christians. Constitutional language to explain
politically, and find out where science can prove spiritual healing to
share with other nontheists and even atheists who use science to prove things first.

So I got there backwards.

Most people I know get there going forwards,
and can explain and share with someone else coming from that same direction.

My way was so WEIRD I don't know ANYONE who came to an understanding
of God through Christ that way, without using any teaching but just forgave
and started life over, and that's when these ideas just starting coming to me in floods
what the Bible meant when I had never read it and had/wanted nothing to do with
religion or Christianity, much less Buddhism or politics. All of these were languages
and in order to communicate with other people, I needed to learn these languages.

The message was the same, but everyone spoke a different language for it.
and needed to understand from their own path. My path was so different
I figured everyone must also have a different process, so we should not
judge each other, but should help each other walk and improve through our process
of spiritual growth and understanding, no matter what steps are involved.

The more we help each other, the more help we get, and everyone benefits
and grows closer together and closer to God's truth by putting all our wisdom together.

Thanks irosie
I will ask my friend to join us who is more
from Jewish background but has reconciled
with Christianity and knows about the history more than I do.

I think you and she might agree and understand each other, with more than me,
and you will not believe we are friends because my background is totally different.

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily,

Let me remind you that in Islam Jesus is an honoured prophet, out of 124 000 honoured prophets. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) is known as the Seal of the prophets. He is the last of all the prophets and the best of them, and the beloved of God Almighty.

What follows is also adressed to C_Clayton_Jones. The freedom of religion America boasts of is inspired by Islam. Freedom of religion, that's an Islamic concept. It's not Christian.

The Quran says Jesus was not the son of God but it also says he was not crucified. Since there are a large number of verses in the four books of the disciples giving a lucid account of the crucifixion either the bible is made up story's or the Quran is all lies. I subscribe to the latter, and consider Muhammad a false prophet.

Matthew 7:15-20New King James Version
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them".

The fruits of Muhammad are terrible wars, and acts of savagery that are going in the world today.

Dear Dajjal and Muslim75
1. if you believe these are false prophets, then if the true ones truly DO come in the name of Christ as believers, these believes are bound by Matthew 18:15-20 to redress grievances until the relations are restored in truth. So even if there WAS error, then this can be corrected in Christ, as long as believers follow the process for reconciling based on truth to correct errors.

And/or to agree to part ways if this cannot be reconciled.
Both Christianity says to depart company if the nonbeliever asks
and also Sura 109 says to part ways in peace if the believers do not agree.

But if both parties CLAIM to be believers, then we should continue helping one another to correct the errors so we may establish God's truth we both committed to follow at all times.

This is not possible with man alone, but in Christ all things can be done and made new and whole.

2. I have a friend who resolved this issue with his Muslim parents who do not accept divinity of Jesus, but he does as a Muslim and a Christian. He understands Islam as recognizing Jewish Christian and Muslim. Some people do and some people don't see Jesus as divine from God.

I have found that true believers are able to reconcile in Christ
and only those who reject and have no faith that truth can be resolved in Christ end up failing to reconcile. The key difference I have found is Forgiveness; those who struggle to forgive, but call on God's help to do so can overcome. Those who don't believe won't ask for help to forgive, so they stay divided and fail.

3. For those who have "no concept" of Jesus or God as divine figures,
there are some GENTILES who do not receive the law this way.

Some Muslims are actually gentiles.
Some Jehovah's witnesses are gentiles.
Some do not grasp the divinity of Christ, but they do follow Natural Laws
and Christ fulfills those Natural Laws and governs even these people as secular gentiles.

For secular gentiles who do not get the whole story of Jesus sacrifice on the cross,
that is why I offer this broader interpretation of Jesus as Justice that does not acquire agreeing on
all the history exactly and can still believe in the process of Restorative Justice that Jesus represents:

"In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.
In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

Note: I even have friends who are Atheist, and still believe in the power of living by Justice and Peace.
They don't call this Christ Jesus, but as long as we are aligned as neighbors in Christ,
then we are all following God through Christ. So even Atheists can be neighbors in Christ.
So also can Buddhists and Muslims by following natural laws by conscience
as the Gentiles do who are still governed by Christ.

 

[irosie91]

Emily----the Pharisee jew-----Yeshua ben Yosef-----has nothing to do with anything you think or write----He was ----like most Pharisee jews of his time-----a disciple of HILLEL. He was crucified by the romans-----like tens of thousand of other Pharisee jews of his time. You ---without knowing it-----are
an admirerer of the thoughts and teachings of a person named
HILLEL --------I find the whole thing----kinda funny. I have no
religious education-----I did attend Episcopalian sunday school with a playmate about a dozen times-----but all I did was play with a coloring book -----"jesus holding a lamb"------I was an avid reader----as an adolescent and figured out that Jesus was a Pharisee follower of HILLEL----------independently. Then---
about 20 years ago------I heard a scholar describe Jesus as a
PHARISEE JEW--------gee....... You know nothing about the person you call "Christ"-------good guy but not "god"

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily----the Pharisee jew-----Yeshua ben Yosef-----has nothing to do with anything you think or write----He was ----like most Pharisee jews of his time-----a disciple of HILLEL. He was crucified by the romans-----like tens of thousand of other Pharisee jews of his time. You ---without knowing it-----are
an admirerer of the thoughts and teachings of a person named
HILLEL --------I find the whole thing----kinda funny. I have no
religious education-----I did attend Episcopalian sunday school with a playmate about a dozen times-----but all I did was play with a coloring book -----"jesus holding a lamb"------I was an avid reader----as an adolescent and figured out that Jesus was a Pharisee follower of HILLEL----------independently. Then---
about 20 years ago------I heard a scholar describe Jesus as a
PHARISEE JEW--------gee....... You know nothing about the person you call "Christ"-------good guy but not "god"

Nope irosie
That's not my background
I never understood Jesus as a figure.
Totally foreign to me as that wasn't anything like my process of understanding the meaning.

I had to go backwards After I understood Justice is what Jesus is used to symbolize.

Only After I understood God's Justice with Mercy is greater than man can describe in words, I could forgive all the funny symbolism that never made sense to me. It's like looking at cartoon version for teaching something much deeper and profound.

To this day I marvel in wonder how Christians can explain the story of Jesus on the cross, and somehow communicate what Justice is and the process of receiving Justice and salvation that way.

The whole Bible puzzles me how ppl can get the right msg when its easier to get the wrong one out of it.

 

[irosie91]

Oh----I did not understand. I thought that you considered the
idea that a person named "jesus" actually did live ~ 2000 years ago and actually was crucified. I do believe such a
person did exist whereas what you are saying is that he is
just a kind of fictional character which can be used as a symbol

 

[Muslim75]

Emily,

Part of Muhammad's talk of the Night Journey (peace be upon him and his family) is as follows:

"When I went over the second heaven, there I saw Yahya (i.e. John) and 'Isa (i.e. Jesus) who were cousins of each other. Gabriel said (to me), 'These are John and Jesus; pay them your greetings.' So I greeted them and both of them returned my greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.'

when I went over the third heaven there I saw Joseph. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is Joseph; pay him
your greetings.' So I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.'
when I went over the fourth heaven, there I saw Idris. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is Idris; pay him your greetings.' So I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.'"

So as you see, the prophets, including Jesus honored Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) on the Night Journey, on the Night of the ascension. He kept going higher and higher, beyond the heavens, leaving the prophets behind him.

Islam does not discuss with Christians on the matter of Jesus. Muslims believe Christians are but liars who say things like Jesus being killed. Muslims say to Christians to worship the Jews, if they believe Jesus was God. And Muslims tell Christians to ask Jesus where his father was when they killed him, if they believe he was the son of God.

Jesus is one of the greatest prophets, but the greatest of them all and the kings of the prophets is Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). If those prophets were alive today, they would follow the way of Muhammad, Islam.

 

[irosie91]

thanks for that very interesting little story, mus......
as to a career in writing-----don't give up your day
job