Why do you believe that the rich deserve 90% +

[Woodznutz]

I commend Bezos, Gates, et al, for starting small and building something big. No one hates productive people who contribute to society. The problem begins when they acquire the kind of wealth common to small nations and start abusing their power.

But the problem is, the internet allows for the cornering the market if you get in and move quickly into a new area. once these guys got a monopoly, or something very close to it, they started abusing their power, and that's where they violate antitrust laws, and should be held accountable. It's easy for these guys, given the laws, to avoid paying taxes, and on that point, I agree the OP. The OP isn't articulated very well, which could have been written better, and substantiation would be very easy. All of these guys have been subject to congressional scrutiny, etc., etc., etc., regarding these issues.

The fact of the matter is that the upper 50% own 97% of the nation's wealth (proof provided on request, the Fed Reserve wealth distribution tables) and given that fact, they should pay, a progressive tax that rises to 97% of the nation's tax burden. Currently, they pay less than that. The lower 50% own 3% of the nation's wealth but pay more than that percentage in taxes. For poor whom many claim to not pay taxes, not true. For those who cannot hedge, the poor, they pay it in inflation. Inflation is a transfer of wealth from those who cannot hedge (the poor) to those who can hedge (the rich). If you don't grasp this, I will detail it more, but it's a fact. Wealth isn't created out of thin air, though it might seem like it, someone pays the piper somewhere, at some point. The ultimate source of wealth is labor. And the less you work for it, the more others do, for you. If you inherit wealth, that means many others donated their labor for your benefit. That's what it actually means, and if economists started treating money as labor, instead of some bullshit abstraction, we'd come up with better monetary policy.

Money (capital) is labor when used to hire labor. A big problem is the false perception that because someone has great wealth that they also have lots of money.

 

[Mac-7]

because she wants to teach children how to have gay sex,,

Stormlover said:
The benefits of teaching our kids to be bisexual. Think about it! Lets say your best friend is a man which is typically true and they typically turn out to be the most reliable people you know and the person you can trust. Why not marry him? Same can be said if you're female, your female bestie. The second benefit of teaching our next generation to be bisexual is the simple fact that a lot of people don't have partners and the cold truth is being bisexual opens the door to a lot less loniness.

The advantages are huge! A relationship shouldn't only be about having kids but stability in your life, trust and companionship. We as a society choose the opposite sex blindly and most of the time this person isn't worth the shit as a friend and person you can trust unlike a lot of your same sex friends. That is just the truth. This causes divorce and nastiness as the opposite sex generally has been taught to dislike the other sex and that trends to destroy relationships.

I don't disagree with the goals of the teachers teaching this because it opens doors towards stronger relationships with people that are far better for you then being forced to deal with some unknown of the opposite sex. Why shouldn't it be taught? Gay marriage is legal and there's nothing wrong with it. Be gay, Be bi and be happy!

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/the-benefits-of-a-bisexual-future.1025675/

Wow!

Jessica-stormlover is a model lib

That is disgusting

 

[Rumpole]

Money (capital) is labor when used to hire labor. A big problem is the false perception that because someone has great wealth that they also have lots of money.

Wealth can always be converted to cash. Most billionaires own millions in stocks and highly liquid investments, on top of real estate, businesses, etc.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I commend Bezos, Gates, et al, for starting small and building something big. No one hates productive people who contribute to society. The problem begins when they acquire the kind of wealth common to small nations and start abusing their power.

But the problem is, the internet allows for the cornering the market if you get in and move quickly into a new area. once these guys got a monopoly, or something very close to it, they started abusing their power, and that's where they violate antitrust laws, and should be held accountable. It's easy for these guys, given the laws, to avoid paying taxes, and on that point, I agree the OP. The OP isn't articulated very well, which could have been written better, and substantiation would be very easy. All of these guys have been subject to congressional scrutiny, etc., etc., etc., regarding these issues.

The fact of the matter is that the upper 50% own 97% of the nation's wealth (proof provided on request, the Fed Reserve wealth distribution tables) and given that fact, they should pay, a progressive tax that rises to 97% of the nation's tax burden. Currently, they pay less than that. The lower 50% own 3% of the nation's wealth but pay more than that percentage in taxes. For poor whom many claim to not pay taxes, not true. For those who cannot hedge, the poor, they pay it in inflation. Inflation is a transfer of wealth from those who cannot hedge (the poor) to those who can hedge (the rich). If you don't grasp this, I will detail it more, but it's a fact. Wealth isn't created out of thin air, though it might seem like it, someone pays the piper somewhere, at some point. The ultimate source of wealth is labor. And the less you work for it, the more others do, for you. If you inherit wealth, that means many others donated their labor for your benefit. That's what it actually means, and if economists started treating money as labor, instead of some bullshit abstraction, we'd come up with better monetary policy.

The fact of the matter is that the upper 50% own 97% of the nation's wealth (proof provided on request, the Fed Reserve wealth distribution tables) and given that fact, they should pay, a progressive tax that rises to 97% of the nation's tax burden.

Sounds good.

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2024 Update

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) made many significant, but temporary, changes to the individual income tax code to lower tax rates, widen brackets, increase the standard deduction and child tax credit, and more.

taxfoundation.org

Looks like they paid a bit more.

The lower 50% own 3% of the nation's wealth but pay more than that percentage in taxes.

Looks like they paid 2.3%

 

[BackAgain]

Don’t believe that vermin like Jessica deserve less than .0001%?

I do.

 

[Rumpole]

The fact of the matter is that the upper 50% own 97% of the nation's wealth (proof provided on request, the Fed Reserve wealth distribution tables) and given that fact, they should pay, a progressive tax that rises to 97% of the nation's tax burden.

Sounds good.

View attachment 936414

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2024 Update

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) made many significant, but temporary, changes to the individual income tax code to lower tax rates, widen brackets, increase the standard deduction and child tax credit, and more.

taxfoundation.org

Looks like they paid a bit more.

The lower 50% own 3% of the nation's wealth but pay more than that percentage in taxes.

Looks like they paid 2.3%

The income tax doesn't tell the whole picture.

The top tier in society own tons of investments, assets, all of which accrue faster than the rate of inflation, and greatly offset whatever taxes they pay.
In essence, i.e., in effect, they pay little taxes, expressed as a percentage of overall wealth accrual (assets minus liabilities plus cash) due to holdings and the effect of inflation on those holdings. Big earners tend to earn via capital gains, and when you make money that way, there are all sorts of loopholes you can take advantage of.

Making a simple example. Say you own $1,000,000 in stock, and it accrues to $2,000,000 in 10 years. You won't pay taxes on that unless you cash it in.
You made a million bucks for which you paid no tax, and don't tell me that stocks aren't as liquid as cash. If you made a million dollars in income during that 10 years, from the sales of assets, your capital gains tax is less than average people pay.

So, 'income stats' do not tell the true picture.

Also, small gig workers are taxed at business rates, and it shouldn't be. As a retiree, I have a small income in a small business that i subcontract for, and, not including my social security, I earned well below the poverty rate ( I do it part time to supplement my income) which, if that had been a salary, I wouldn't have owed tax, but because the government views it as a business like any big business, I owe a few thousand which I have no disposable income to pay. This isn't right. Millions of people in the modern era work in small gig/type businesses, for the freedom it affords.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The income tax doesn't tell the whole picture.

The top tier in society own tons of investments, assets, all of which accrue faster than the rate of inflation, and greatly offset whatever taxes they pay.
In essence, i.e., in effect, they pay little taxes, expressed as a percentage of overall wealth accrual (assets minus liabilities plus cash) due to holdings and the effect of inflation on those holdings. Big earners tend to earn via capital gains, and when you make money that way, there are all sorts of loopholes you can take advantage of.

Making a simple example. Say you own $1,000,000 in stock, and it accrues to $2,000,000 in 10 years. You won't pay taxes on that unless you cash it in.
You made a million bucks for which you paid no tax, and don't tell me that stocks aren't as liquid as cash. If you made a million dollars in income during that 10 years, from the sales of assets, your capital gains tax is less than average people pay.

So, 'income stats' do not tell the true picture.

Also, small gig workers are taxed at business rates, and it shouldn't be. As a retiree, I have a small income in a small business that i subcontract for, and, not including my social security, I earned well below the poverty rate ( I do it part time to supplement my income) which, if that had been a salary, I wouldn't have owed tax, but because the government views it as a business like any big business, I owe a few thousand which I have no disposable income to pay. This isn't right. Millions of people in the modern era work in small gig/type businesses, for the freedom it affords.

The income tax doesn't tell the whole picture.

The top tier in society own tons of investments

That's awful!

But you said the top 50% own 97% of assets and should pay 97% of taxes.
It looks like they paid 97.7% in 2021.

You got your wish.

In essence, i.e., in effect, they pay little taxes, expressed as a percentage of overall wealth accrual (assets minus liabilities plus cash) due to holdings and the effect of inflation on those holdings.

You want them to pay taxes on gains due to inflation?

If you made a million dollars in income during that 10 years, from the sales of assets, your capital gains tax is less than average people pay.

How much income does that "average person" earn?

 

[Woodznutz]

The fact of the matter is that the upper 50% own 97% of the nation's wealth (proof provided on request, the Fed Reserve wealth distribution tables) and given that fact, they should pay, a progressive tax that rises to 97% of the nation's tax burden.

Sounds good.

View attachment 936414

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2024 Update

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) made many significant, but temporary, changes to the individual income tax code to lower tax rates, widen brackets, increase the standard deduction and child tax credit, and more.

taxfoundation.org

Looks like they paid a bit more.

The lower 50% own 3% of the nation's wealth but pay more than that percentage in taxes.

Looks like they paid 2.3%

The lower 50 percent receive the most in tax funded welfare. Much more than they pay in taxes.

 

[Woodznutz]

The income tax doesn't tell the whole picture.

The top tier in society own tons of investments, assets, all of which accrue faster than the rate of inflation, and greatly offset whatever taxes they pay.
In essence, i.e., in effect, they pay little taxes, expressed as a percentage of overall wealth accrual (assets minus liabilities plus cash) due to holdings and the effect of inflation on those holdings. Big earners tend to earn via capital gains, and when you make money that way, there are all sorts of loopholes you can take advantage of.

Making a simple example. Say you own $1,000,000 in stock, and it accrues to $2,000,000 in 10 years. You won't pay taxes on that unless you cash it in.
You made a million bucks for which you paid no tax, and don't tell me that stocks aren't as liquid as cash. If you made a million dollars in income during that 10 years, from the sales of assets, your capital gains tax is less than average people pay.

So, 'income stats' do not tell the true picture.

Also, small gig workers are taxed at business rates, and it shouldn't be. As a retiree, I have a small income in a small business that i subcontract for, and, not including my social security, I earned well below the poverty rate ( I do it part time to supplement my income) which, if that had been a salary, I wouldn't have owed tax, but because the government views it as a business like any big business, I owe a few thousand which I have no disposable income to pay. This isn't right. Millions of people in the modern era work in small gig/type businesses, for the freedom it affords.

Capital gains rates exist to encourage investment, which carries risk. The lower rate is the reward for taking those risks.

 

[Dragonlady]

because they earned it and didnt molest or groom any children to do it,,

dont you think people deserve what they earned??

why do you push a religion that uses children for adult sexual pleasure or murder children before they even get a fair chance at living a life??

You believe that Bill Gates earned $127.7 billion dollars all by himself????? If you do, you're even dumber than a sack of hammers.

How do you know they didn't "molest or groom any children"? Why are YOU so willing to give the wealthiest people in the world ALL of your money???

I do think that people deserve what they earn. McDonald's is one of the most profitable companies in America, and ALL of McDonald's money is made off the backs of minimum wage workers selling burgers in their stores. Their President makes an 8-figure salary, paid by the profits these kids generate working for minimum wage.

Without their minimum wage workers, these guys wouldn't have ANY MONEY AT ALL. And yet the people who earn the money for the corporation, are the poorest paid.

"why do you push a religion that uses children for adult sexual pleasure or murder children before they even get a fair chance at living a life??"

I don't know. Why don't you ask the Catholic Church why they do this? I fail to understand why people keep taking their children to Catholic Churches given their history of child sexual abuse.

How Thousands of Indigenous Children Vanished in Canada (Published 2021)

The discovery of the remains of hundreds of children at the sites of defunct schools in British Columbia and southern Saskatchewan has rekindled discussion of a sinister time in Canada’s history.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Dragonlady]

The lower 50 percent receive the most in tax funded welfare. Much more than they pay in taxes.

That's because the minimum wage in the USA is too low to provide a living for people, so underpaid workers of the nation's most profits corporations, are applying for food stamps, Medicaid, and "earned income credits". These "welfare payments" are being given to the workers for the most profitable corporations in America instead of raising the minimum wage.

In sane nations, we make our corporations pay the workers enough money to live on. It may not be much of a living, but it will keep a roof over your head. It costs taxpayers $1.50 to give $1 in benefits to a worker. It costs the corporation $0.88 to give the worker a dollar, because wages are a tax deductible expense.

This is basic economics.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You believe that Bill Gates earned $127.7 billion dollars all by himself?????

You believe he stole $127.7 billion from the poor? Or from anyone?

Their President makes an 8-figure salary, paid by the profits these kids generate working for minimum wage.

That's awful! Those kids with no money and minimal skills should build their own billion-dollar company.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's because the minimum wage in the USA is too low to provide a living for people, so underpaid workers of the nation's most profits corporations, are applying for food stamps, Medicaid, and "earned income credits". These "welfare payments" are being given to the workers for the most profitable corporations in America instead of raising the minimum wage.

How much lower would government spending be on those "welfare payments" if these unskilled workers with little experience weren't working at these jobs?

 

[Woodznutz]

That's because the minimum wage in the USA is too low to provide a living for people, so underpaid workers of the nation's most profits corporations, are applying for food stamps, Medicaid, and "earned income credits". These "welfare payments" are being given to the workers for the most profitable corporations in America instead of raising the minimum wage.

In sane nations, we make our corporations pay the workers enough money to live on. It may not be much of a living, but it will keep a roof over your head. It costs taxpayers $1.50 to give $1 in benefits to a worker. It costs the corporation $0.88 to give the worker a dollar, because wages are a tax deductible expense.

This is basic economics.

Many of those businesses only exist because of minimum wage laws. Many are closing up or laying off workers in California's due to the new $20/hr. minimum wage law.

It's foolish for people to think a job meant to be part time should provide a living for a family. Many of those fast food franchises can't raise their prices to cover the new wages either, their customers won't pay it.

One group of employees begged the owner to return their pay to the previous level so they could keep their jobs. Sadly, the law wouldn't allow it, he closed the business, and all lost their jobs.

I worked for a Sentry Foods franchise as a meat cutter once. The owner confided that I and the other meat cutters often made more money than he did as the store owner. The grocery clerk's union came in and 'organized' the grocery workers, they went on strike for high pay and more benefits. The owner held out as long as he could but finally relented and signed the union agreement. Six months later he closed the store leaving dozens of full and part time employee without a job. It was a wonderful neighborhood supermarket and was never reopened.

I worked there for five years and didn't observe any large turnover of full or parttime workers. All seemed very satisfied, until the union showed up and 'educated' them about how they were getting screwed by the owner. When the union effectively closed the store, they were really screwed.

Sometimes you have to believe the owners when they say they can't afford to pay their employees more.

 

[Nostra]

That's because the minimum wage in the USA is too low to provide a living for people, so underpaid workers of the nation's most profits corporations, are applying for food stamps, Medicaid, and "earned income credits". These "welfare payments" are being given to the workers for the most profitable corporations in America instead of raising the minimum wage.

In sane nations, we make our corporations pay the workers enough money to live on. It may not be much of a living, but it will keep a roof over your head. It costs taxpayers $1.50 to give $1 in benefits to a worker. It costs the corporation $0.88 to give the worker a dollar, because wages are a tax deductible expense.

This is basic economics.

The minimum wage is for entry level jobs. It’s not intended to be enough to raise a family, Simp.

 

[j-mac]

That's because the minimum wage in the USA is too low to provide a living for people, so underpaid workers of the nation's most profits corporations, are applying for food stamps, Medicaid, and "earned income credits". These "welfare payments" are being given to the workers for the most profitable corporations in America instead of raising the minimum wage.

In sane nations, we make our corporations pay the workers enough money to live on. It may not be much of a living, but it will keep a roof over your head. It costs taxpayers $1.50 to give $1 in benefits to a worker. It costs the corporation $0.88 to give the worker a dollar, because wages are a tax deductible expense.

This is basic economics.

Sounds like you need to find a better job…

 

[Smokin' OP]

Mark Cuban says he's proud to pay $288 million in taxes ...​

Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com › Politics
Apr 14, 2024 — "This country has done so much for me, I'm proud to pay my taxes every single year," Cuban wrote on X. "Tag a former president that you know ...

Trump taxes detailed in new report from Congress​

CNBC
https://www.cnbc.com › 2022/12/21 › trump-income-ta...
Dec 20, 2022 —
The amount of income, deductions and taxes paid by or refunded to former President Donald Trump while serving in the White House was detailed in a new report released Tuesday night.

The report reveals that Trump on his federal tax returns declared negative income in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2020, and that he paid a total of $1,500 in income taxes for the years 2016 and 2017.


On their 2020 income tax returns, Trump and his wife Melania paid no federal income taxes and claimed a refund of $5.47 million, according to the report by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation.

 

[Rumpole]

Capital gains rates exist to encourage investment, which carries risk. The lower rate is the reward for taking those risks.

A theory presented to us by the wealthy, naturally,

However, it is not grounded in fact:

• A study by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) found that there is little evidence to suggest that capital gains tax cuts significantly affect long-term investment levels. Instead, the primary effect observed was an increase in the timing of asset sales to take advantage of lower tax rates.
• https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47113
• Research by the Tax Policy Center has explored how changes in capital gains taxation impact economic behavior and concluded that while lower capital gains taxes might increase the attractiveness of selling profitable investments, they do not necessarily encourage the acquisition of new investments.
• https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R40411.pdf
• A review by the Economic Policy Institute stated that lower capital gains taxes are unlikely to have a major impact on the productive investment needed to boost economic growth, as real investment decisions are minimally affected by tax rates on gains.
• 

  The Illusory Rewards of a Capital Gains Tax Cut

  Congress has returned once again to the question of whether returns to capital should be accorded more favorable tax treatment than returns to labor. The Job Creation & Wage Enhancement Act in the Republicans' "Contract With America" calls for lowering the top rate on capital gains to 19.8% from...

  www.epi.org

 

[22lcidw]

Many of those businesses only exist because of minimum wage laws. Many are closing up or laying off workers in California's due to the new $20/hr. minimum wage law.

It's foolish for people to think a job meant to be part time should provide a living for a family. Many of those fast food franchises can't raise their prices to cover the new wages either, their customers won't pay it.

One group of employees begged the owner to return their pay to the previous level so they could keep their jobs. Sadly, the law wouldn't allow it, he closed the business, and all lost their jobs.

I worked for a Sentry Foods franchise as a meat cutter once. The owner confided that I and the other meat cutters often made more money than he did as the store owner. The grocery clerk's union came in and 'organized' the grocery workers, they went on strike for high pay and more benefits. The owner held out as long as he could but finally relented and signed the union agreement. Six months later he closed the store leaving dozens of full and part time employee without a job. It was a wonderful neighborhood supermarket and was never reopened.

I worked there for five years and didn't observe any large turnover of full or parttime workers. All seemed very satisfied, until the union showed up and 'educated' them about how they were getting screwed by the owner. When the union effectively closed the store, they were really screwed.

Sometimes you have to believe the owners when they say they can't afford to pay their employees more.

There is a balance we must attain. And it is difficult. Some get great privileges, and the other side of the coin does not. We rely to get into lower earth orbit with astronauts from a private side corporation. Think about it. The last government produced way to get astronauts into space stopped in 2012. We had wasted billions and billions spent from government/private side dependent aerospace corporations a rudderless space follow ons to the Space Shuttle. And this from a decade or more before it was retired. We easily could be using Shuttle 2 as compared going to the moon again. NASA like a junkie exists at the whims of the politician's whims. So, we now have a massively over expensive moon rocket called the Space Launch System. And a federal government who financed it unwilling to spend the money to get us to the moon in a long-term way with several launches a year from the same.

 

[Dragonlady]

Sounds like you need to find a better job…

I retired 8 years ago. I worked for Bay Street Lawyers. Highest salaries in Canada, plus spring and fall bonuses. Lunch servery for professional staff. Overtime paid for any workday exceeding 7 1/2 hours, cab rides home after 9:00 p.m. Cadillac supplemental health care package. Matching payments on RRSP (Canadian 401K's), contributions. Building concierge with cheap sports and theatre tickets, health club membership. Nobody ever quit that place.