Banning Abortion- A fool's errand

[Rigby5]

See that's the problem,
you have been forced to show your true colors on the matter but the vast majority of the pro-choice crowd [like the ones you claim feel the way you do] are hiding behind "the welfare of the mother" claims when all they really care about is what you describe above, being able to throw it in the garbage for convenience sake...
KUDOS to you for coming clean joe and shame on those who still pretend that for them it is anything else but what joe said it is

That is because a fetus is not sentient.
It has no feelings, concerns, identity, self awareness, etc.
It is just cells, like a finger nail or hair.

 

[Rigby5]

I most certainly have. Stop making shit up.

This is a subject I have studied extensively. In fact, I have pointed out that prior to Roe v. Wade, there were about as many legal abortions back then as there are today. And that would be the case were Roe v. Wade overturned. It would have almost no impact on the number of legal abortions.

But as a matter of moral and constitutional principle, Roe v. Wade should be overturned and the decision to legalize or outlaw abortion (and to what degree) should be left to the individual states.

No, when it comes to the Constitution, that includes the amendments, and the 14th amendment forces the federal government to protect individual rights from abuse by states.
And attempting to restrict abortion is abuse of individual rights.

 

[Rigby5]

Horrible flawed logic.

Since I consider abortion to be murder, let's take another ban.

We outlaw murder and yet there are still murders. Should we allow murder to be a matter of personal choice on demand?

Wrong.
Murder is the violation of the rights of a separate. conscious, and independent individual.
And abortion is just removing some mindless mass of parasitic cells.

 

[JoeB131]

See that's the problem,
you have been forced to show your true colors on the matter but the vast majority of the pro-choice crowd [like the ones you claim feel the way you do] are hiding behind "the welfare of the mother" claims when all they really care about is what you describe above, being able to throw it in the garbage for convenience sake...
KUDOS to you for coming clean joe and shame on those who still pretend that for them it is anything else but what joe said it is

It's still about the welfare of the mother, dummy.

I was just pointing out how hard it would be to get a conviction on this law.

Horrible flawed logic.

Since I consider abortion to be murder, let's take another ban.

We outlaw murder and yet there are still murders. Should we allow murder to be a matter of personal choice on demand?

We can outlaw murder because there is universal agreement that murder is bad.

Cops will arrest.
Prosecutors will indict
Juries will convict.

The thing was, even before Roe, none of that was happening with illegal abortion providers. These were laws on the books that were more like the prostitution laws. They were there, people regularly ignored them.

Let's start with the cops. Unlike a murder of an actual person, which leaves a body, the fetus could be easily flushed down a toilet in a home abortion clinic. They probably wouldn't be bothered.

Prosecutors in urban areas will be unlikely to indict, even if they are in the middle of a big old red state full of God-Botherers.

And as I said, you pick a jury of 12 people, you'll always have one who will refuse to convict.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

That is because a fetus is not sentient.
It has no feelings, concerns, identity, self awareness, etc.
It is just cells, like a finger nail or hair.

What does this have to do with my post? it was about white liberals hiding from the reason you just gave and pretending it is about compassion...but, in fairness to you, you deserve credit for telling the truth about the real reason.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

It's still about the welfare of the mother, dummy.

Sure it is, I can see how slam dunking a fetus in a waste basket has the mothers best interests at heart.

I was just pointing out how hard it would be to get a conviction on this law.

what happen joe? truth slip out?...It's OK joe, you dispelled the compassion lie, that's a good thing

 

[Rigby5]

What does this have to do with my post? it was about white liberals hiding from the reason you just gave and pretending it is about compassion...but, in fairness to you, you deserve credit for telling the truth about the real reason.

You said abortion is murder, and its not.
When you kill humans cells, like removing some skin cells in plastic surgery, that is not murder.
Human cells do not constitute anything we care about.
The ONLY thing we care about is what makes a human sentient, conscious, or self aware, in the brain.
And since a fetus is not yet sentient, conscious, or self aware, is it is just a bunch of cells that no one should care about at all.

 

[Rigby5]

Sure it is, I can see how slam dunking a fetus in a waste basket has the mothers best interests at heart.



what happen joe? truth slip out?...It's OK joe, you dispelled the compassion lie, that's a good thing

Yes it is, because we have too many people already, and if a family has too many children or before they can be properly supported, it condemns the whole family into a lifetime of poverty and economic desperation.
It is better to raise fewer children better than to raise lots of children badly.
And the fetus does not care.
Anyone claiming it is awful to terminate a fetus is crazy, because no fetus cares about anything.
It does not yet have the ability to care.
And it is usually much better to dump early fetuses when a family is young and poor, so that they can delay and cherish a fetus that comes along latter.

What people do not seem to understand is that abortions do not end anything.
You are just trading an unplanned accidental fetus for one you will intentionally create later.
There will be the same number of children.
But if you delay when you decide to let fetuses mature, you have a happier family and society.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

You said abortion is murder, and its not.

No lie is too big for the white liberal to tell...show everybody where I said that, my guess is you'll tell another lie,
and I am pro-choice, abortion should remain legal but it has nothing to do with compassion just convenience

When you kill humans cells, like removing some skin cells in plastic surgery, that is not murder.

nor is it compassion

Human cells do not constitute anything we care about.

except when you want insurance companies to cover pregnancies, then thats all white liberals care about

The ONLY thing we care about is what makes a human sentient, conscious, or self aware, in the brain.

well now we know what the problem is

And since a fetus is not yet sentient, conscious, or self aware, is it is just a bunch of cells that no one should care about at all.

Like I said, the welfare of the mother has nothing to do with white liberals and abortion, you just keep making that point for me and act like it was me that got this wrong.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

What people do not seem to understand is that abortions do not end anything.
You are just trading an unplanned accidental fetus for one you will intentionally create later.
There will be the same number of children.

So the number of abortions in ones life directly corresponds to the number of children he/she ends up having? in other words eleven abortions now = eleven children later? did I get your math right?

But if you delay when you decide to let fetuses mature, you have a happier family and society.

plus ya get to slam dunk the little buggers right?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

It is just cells, like a finger nail or hair.

So should insurance companies cover manicures, haircuts and pregnancies?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Murder is the violation of the rights of a separate. conscious, and independent individual.

does it have to be all three of those things or just a mix and match or just one of them? where would an overdeveloped fetus outside the womb, fast asleep with an ankle monitor [or in prison] fit into that scenario?

And abortion is just removing some mindless mass of parasitic cells.

Like banning white liberals from the forum

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Yes it is, because we have too many people already,

and according to you abortion has no way of correcting that

What people do not seem to understand is that abortions do not end anything.
You are just trading an unplanned accidental fetus for one you will intentionally create later.

proof that the first claim is just more white liberal lies pretending abortion is anything but convenient

 

[Rigby5]

No lie is too big for the white liberal to tell...show everybody where I said that, my guess is you'll tell another lie,
and I am pro-choice, abortion should remain legal but it has nothing to do with compassion just convenience


nor is it compassion

except when you want insurance companies to cover pregnancies, then thats all white liberals care about


well now we know what the problem is

Like I said, the welfare of the mother has nothing to do with white liberals and abortion, you just keep making that point for me and act like it was me that got this wrong.

It is you have got this wrong.
There is no reason to insist every ovum that accidentally gets fertilized, should be given rights.
It is almost always better for everyone if pregnancies are delayed until one has their economics stabilized.
If you have the same number of children, but you simply pass on the first one and have one later, that does not at all change anything.
Mindless cells can't be "murdered".

 

[Rigby5]

So the number of abortions in ones life directly corresponds to the number of children he/she ends up having? in other words eleven abortions now = eleven children later? did I get your math right?


plus ya get to slam dunk the little buggers right?

No, what I said is that the number of lives you deliver is all that counts.
It does not matter if you abort 11 first or not.
If you never get pregnant, the are just as dead as if you had them aborted.
The point is to not have one early that screws up the lives of everyone.

 

[Rigby5]

does it have to be all three of those things or just a mix and match or just one of them? where would an overdeveloped fetus outside the womb, fast asleep with an ankle monitor [or in prison] fit into that scenario?


Like banning white liberals from the forum

If a being is outside the womb, then the woman no longer has the jurisdiction to decide, because they are not burdening her.
A sleeping person is still conscious. The proof is they dream.
A person in prison is still an independent individual. The prison just reduces their choices, but they still have independent choices.

 

[Rigby5]

and according to you abortion has no way of correcting that

proof that the first claim is just more white liberal lies pretending abortion is anything but convenient

Wrong.
If we delay pregnancies, then we have more time to ensure they are not a burden.
Overpopulation is not just a total number, but the degree the next generation becomes a burden.

 

[JoeB131]

Sure it is, I can see how slam dunking a fetus in a waste basket has the mothers best interests at heart.

Obviously, sarcasm is lost on you.

what happen joe? truth slip out?...It's OK joe, you dispelled the compassion lie, that's a good thing

Quite the contrary, I never really claimed it was about "compassion". I point out it is because of pragmatism.

If you outlaw abortions, you will either have to establish a police state regulating Gyno-Americans to second class citizenship, or you will have largely unworkable laws that no one obey. Using history as a guide, including extreme examples like the Philippines and Romania under Ceausescu (where he tried to outlaw all contraception to force Romania to increase her population) the latter is more likely to be the case.

So the question becomes, how many women do you want to maim to show your moral outrage about fetuses ending up in medical waste containers?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

It is you have got this wrong.
There is no reason to insist every ovum that accidentally gets fertilized, should be given rights.
It is almost always better for everyone if pregnancies are delayed until one has their economics stabilized.

Once again, what does this have to do with my claim that this has nothing to do with the welfare of the mother? other than to make my point for me that is.

If you have the same number of children, but you simply pass on the first one and have one later, that does not at all change anything.

dodge, pretzel logic...you saw the enormous obvious contradictions in your last post and are hoping to crawl out from underneath them by using words to saying nothing this time

Mindless cells can't be "murdered".

Ahhhh unfortunately so true,...we wouldn't need a left wing curriculum in our schools if it weren't

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If a being is outside the womb, then the woman no longer has the jurisdiction to decide, because they are not burdening her.

not if they are viewed as just an overdeveloped mass of cells

A sleeping person is still conscious.

It is easy to see why you are so confused

The proof is they dream.

not consciously, otherwise they could manipulate their dreams at will like a daydreamer who actually is conscious

A person in prison is still an independent individual. The prison just reduces their choices, but they still have independent choices.

That is a very poor semantical dodge but OK, what about conjoined twins?...lol