Average teachers pay vs average pay.

[Mashmont]

We had no teacher's lounge at most of my schools, and it was located next to the principal's office if we did. I was a former Navy officer and was admired for my military bearing. They sent me all of the problem children because they knew I didn't play. In fact, my other male counterpart as assistant principal, was a former Army Ranger. In a military town, we got the most respect. My son and daughter-in-law's Language Arts teacher was a Reserve Special Forces Major. He influenced both to join the Army.

See! You don't know shit, about me or schools in general.

OK, so your time and place was different from mine. No doubt better. But I'll bet more than one person in here had a teacher/coach similar to the stereotype I described in post #385.

 

[Mashmont]

50 years ago, Methusaleh? That's out as outdated you are! I went to school in the 60s and 70s. I taught from 1996-2018. All of my kids attended school in that period. There is no comparison.

My high school's basketball coach played for Notre Dame. One of my high school where I taught, had a football coach in the late 90s who played for my alma mater, and I saw him play football in college. He taught math, just like I did. He later moved to a powerhouse school in Goergia and won several state championships.

Again, this was small-town West Virginia where winning a state championship was akin to being the world's tallest midget. We didn't have guys playing at the university, but they were a big deal in my little town. They were big fish in a little pond. The standards were not great.

I think the most outrageous thing I ever heard was from a friend of mine from Ravenswood WV, who said every day after lunch in her 4th period, the young male teacher cleared out the desks and wrestled the ninth-grade boys. Right in the middle of the room.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OK, so your time and place was different from mine. No doubt better. But I'll bet more than one person in here had a teacher/coach similar to the stereotype I described in post #385.

There is no one posting in this forum that graduated from high school in less than about 20 years ago, except maybe some liberals who were either dropped out or were kicked out.

I'll give another one! Our baseball coach was my world history teacher in high school. he and I are still friends on Facebook as he is now in his 70s. My 6th grade teacher still talks to me occasionally. He was still at the school as a guidance counselor when my youngest daughter attended the same school.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again, this was small-town West Virginia where winning a state championship was akin to being the world's tallest midget. We didn't have guys playing at the university, but they were a big deal in my little town. They were big fish in a little pond. The standards were not great.

I bet if you go back there today, you would die of shock.

I was in an elementary school initial IEP determination meeting yesterday for one of my friend's kids. What is your most recent experience?

Even their security procedures were light years ahead of when I left.

 

[rightwinger]

OK, so your time and place was different from mine. No doubt better. But I'll bet more than one person in here had a teacher/coach similar to the stereotype I described in post #385.

Your stereotype was not too far from the truth
Coaches were distracted by their team and that was where their attention was
They liked to tell stories

 

[Mashmont]

I bet if you go back there today, you would die of shock.

I was in an elementary school initial IEP determination meeting yesterday for one of my friend's kids. What is your most recent experience?

There is no doubt things are better now. My kids went to school in a city of 250,000 during the 00's and early teens. The advanced classes were indeed rigorous. They didn't have advanced classes in my old HS when I was in school.

 

[Mashmont]

50 years ago, Methusaleh? That's out as outdated you are! I went to school in the 60s and 70s.

Big difference between the late 60s vs the mid 70s. In your time, guys were wearing sweaters and penny loafers to school. In mine, they were wearing shirts with holes in them and old sneakers. I've often said the mid-to late-1970s were the most lax and debaucherous time I ever experienced. It was right after bad things became widespread, but before the ill-effects of them got them banned.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Big difference between the late 60s vs the mid 70s. In your time, guys were wearing sweaters and penny loafers to school. In mine, they were wearing shirts with holes in them and old sneakers. I've often said the mid-to late-1970s were the most lax and debaucherous time I ever experienced. It was right after bad things became widespread, but before the ill-effects of them got them banned.

I went to a school in the county outside a very poor city. Sweaters and penny loafers? You are funny! My mother made most of my shirts that I wore to school. Several of my school pictures were taken in them. My school had students smoking, and the city was so bad for drugs and crime, we held our prom in another STATE!

 

[Woodznutz]

Oh, I thought you might wanna refute my point.

I guess you can't

I guess I missed your point. Refresh my memory.

 

[SweetSue92]

States are totally unwilling to impose objective standards on new (and existing) teachers because any meaningful standards would result in...no more teachers, or at best, almost no POC's teaching.

People who major in "education" (not actually a subject) routinely are shown to have the lowest incoming SAT scores of any major. In the states where they have tried competency tests for teachers, they invariably fail because Black and "Hispanic" teachers basically all fail the tests, so they have to be recalibrated into nothingness.

In a perfect world, teachers would have to demonstrate competency both in their subject area and in elements of teaching, and they would be paid handsomely. In a perfect world, there would be no shortage of science and math teachers because people with quantitative degrees could transfer into teaching for a period without the bullshit of having to waste a year studying "education" and student teaching, or start at the bottom of the pay scale.

In this as in many other things, the biggest obstacle to real reform is the teacher's union(s).

I have worked with companies headquartered in Germany, Austria, and other rational countries, and they have professional unions, in which the union works with the employers to maximize productivity and compensation. This model puts to shame the adversarial situation in the U.S. where the teachers' unions act like LABOR unions, fighting for the worst of their employers and screwing the taxpayers who pay their salary.

Education is absolutely a subject: the science and art of learning. IE, how people learn.

To say otherwise is frankly daft.

 

[SweetSue92]

Then it sounds like it’s an unnecessary department, given the bloat and $36T in debt.

Move a few hundred staffers over to other departments, and their functions can be absorbed there. Then sell the unused building (nobody showed up to the building anyway, even pre-COVID), and lay off the rest.

Hey they administer stuff! And write position papers! Very important! heh

 

[SweetSue92]

It won't matter who runs the education system or how much money is spent if the kids don't give a shit about learning.

Trending on social media now: a dad who got mad his son's teacher "interrupted his day" to email him about the kid's behavior. Dad says this is my time. He's your problem on your time.

Frankly this generation of parents is something else.

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe both teachers, NFL players and politicians should all be paid according to a sliding scale of performance:

1. The higher the GPA of the classroom, the more the teacher earns.
2. The more games won per season, going to the Playoffs, etc., the greater the player salary.
3. Politicians are paid according to the number of good bills they get passed, voted on by taxpayers one year after passage. Bad bills that hurt taxpayers, the politician gets a reduction. For every thing a politician does contrary to what they ran on, a further reduction. Get ten demerits and you are expelled from your job.

Sure and let's pay doctors based on how many patients they cure....oh wait....

Teaching is the same thing. You're dealing with some immutables that are no fault of the teacher and likely cannot be mitigated much, if at all.

 

[SweetSue92]

Make the tests passive so that the teacher has no say nor influence in what grade they get.

Or like I said above, we could pay drs according to how many patients die of the disease they're trying to cure.

Pediatrics will do great--highest pay! Ear infections, impetigo! We got this.

Sorry, oncologists, you're screwed

 

[Lisa558]

Hey they administer stuff! And write position papers! Very important! heh

Administering the federal student loan money can be handled entirely by private lenders. Sallie Mae used to do it, until Obama stopped them in an effort to centralize power.

I’m sure Pell Grants could be administered by private organizations, as well.

 

[Lisa558]

Trending on social media now: a dad who got mad his son's teacher "interrupted his day" to email him about the kid's behavior. Dad says this is my time. He's your problem on your time.

Frankly this generation of parents is something else.

THAT is a key problem. The liberals like to say - give more money to poor schools! - when the problem is the home environment and the parents.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Administering the federal student loan money can be handled entirely by private lenders. Sallie Mae used to do it, until Obama stopped them in an effort to centralize power.

I have no problem with doing away with Federal Student Loans, go to private lenders and borrow the money.

I’m sure Pell Grants could be administered by private organizations, as well.

Private organizations can raise money and give grants, just fine. They wouldn't be "Pell Grants" and funded by the government through.


Just cut the $250 Billion spent by the Dept. of Ed. and pay down the debt. Sent each state governor a set of bootstraps and tell them "You are on your own for education funding."

WW

 

[eagle1462010]

No need for federal involvement.

Let States fund their own education. No redistrubution from blue states to red states, they can do it on their own.

WW

And here we go. Red State Rant which is BS.

I have no issue with the Fed 100% out of education in our state.

Back to the enumerated powers.

 

[Lisa558]

I have no problem with doing away with Federal Student Loans, go to private lenders and borrow the money.



Private organizations can raise money and give grants, just fine. They wouldn't be "Pell Grants" and funded by the government through.


Just cut the $250 Billion spent by the Dept. of Ed. and pay down the debt. Sent each state governor a set of bootstraps and tell them "You are on your own for education funding."

WW

Your sarcasm doesn’t make for a reasonable debate. Can’t you libs debate actual points?

Point: Private industry have administered the funds previously, and more efficiently. Let’s go back to that.

 

[eagle1462010]

I have no problem with doing away with Federal Student Loans, go to private lenders and borrow the money.



Private organizations can raise money and give grants, just fine. They wouldn't be "Pell Grants" and funded by the government through.


Just cut the $250 Billion spent by the Dept. of Ed. and pay down the debt. Sent each state governor a set of bootstraps and tell them "You are on your own for education funding."

WW

Im ok with that. As long as the Feds are out of it PERMANENTLY