Average teachers pay vs average pay.

[WorldWatcher]

Your sarcasm doesn’t make for a reasonable debate. Can’t you libs debate actual points?

Point: Private industry have administered the funds previously, and more efficiently. Let’s go back to that.

Im ok with that. As long as the Feds are out of it PERMANENTLY

I don’t think Eagle is a Lib, and neither am I.

Let the state fund education, close ED, take the whole budget and apply it to the debt.

WW

 

[Woodznutz]

Education is absolutely a subject: the science and art of learning. IE, how people learn.

To say otherwise is frankly daft.

Teaching is objective.
Learning is subjective.

 

[Woodznutz]

Trending on social media now: a dad who got mad his son's teacher "interrupted his day" to email him about the kid's behavior. Dad says this is my time. He's your problem on your time.

Frankly this generation of parents is something else.

True. A child's education begins with their parent's attitude towards school.

 

[initforme]

I get on average 2 weeks vacation a year. No holiday pay. No sick days. My deductables are higher than Alabama teachers. My cost is MASSIVELY HIGHER THAN TEACHERS.

I just posted Alabama data. My sisters loved and still love their insurance. They are both retired with VERY GOOD PENSIONS

Wow, you are getting screwed by your employer. No sick days? Punishing a person for getting sick? Wow. Sad state of affairs.

 

[toobfreak]

Sure and let's pay doctors based on how many patients they cure....oh wait....

Actually, I agree that doctors ought to have a rating based on the percentage of their patients get better, how long it takes and how quickly.

Teaching is the same thing. You're dealing with some immutables that are no fault of the teacher and likely cannot be mitigated much, if at all.

Sure, I realize that, I'm just saying that there could be a system where it takes into account how well their students perform, taking into consideration what the expected norm should be for that location.

But with that comes the fact that teachers ought to also have some input on the particulars of what they teach and how.

 

[Unkotare]

...


Sure, I realize that, I'm just saying that there could be a system where it takes into account how well their students perform, taking into consideration what the expected norm should be for that location.

But with that comes the fact that teachers ought to also have some input on the particulars of what they teach and how.

That's what happens now.

 

[SweetSue92]

Actually, I agree that doctors ought to have a rating based on the percentage of their patients get better, how long it takes and how quickly.


Sure, I realize that, I'm just saying that there could be a system where it takes into account how well their students perform, taking into consideration what the expected norm should be for that location.

But with that comes the fact that teachers ought to also have some input on the particulars of what they teach and how.

Agree with that, and such a system seems feasible. Generally tracking progress of students, for example, rather than academic achievement, which can vary for a lot of reasons, many out of the teacher's control.

As for doctors: patients don't follow directions. So you tell your diabetic patient they need to cut out sugar. If they don't and have to go on dialysis as a result, did you fail as a doctor or did they? How about if they SAID they cut out sugar but didn't? Should the dr. be punished for that?

It's too complicated....but this is what we do to teachers.

 

[braalian]

Actually, I agree that doctors ought to have a rating based on the percentage of their patients get better, how long it takes and how quickly.

I don’t know where to start with this….

There’s a limit to what a doctor can do. A lot of it is dependent on things completely beyond their influence.

Is the patient compliant with treatment? Is the patient adhering to recommendations on lifestyle changes? Are there genetic predispositions beyond anyone’s control?

And don’t you think tying a doctor’s compensation to how much their patients “get better” will obviously result in doctors being reluctant to take on patients with incurable chronic conditions? Or patients with any condition whatsoever who are also fat? Patients diagnosed at an older age who therefore automatically have lower chance for good outcomes?

Patients with a documented history of poor treatment compliance in their charts would be blacklisted and no physician would want to touch them.

I could go on….

 

[SweetSue92]

I don’t know where to start with this….

There’s a limit to what a doctor can do. A lot of it is dependent on things completely beyond their influence.

Is the patient compliant with treatment? Is the patient adhering to recommendations on lifestyle changes? Are there genetic predispositions beyond anyone’s control?

And don’t you think tying a doctor’s compensation to how much their patients “get better” will obviously result in doctors being reluctant to take on patients with incurable chronic conditions? Or patients with any condition whatsoever who are also fat? Patients diagnosed at an older age who therefore automatically have lower chance for good outcomes?

Patients with a documented history of poor treatment compliance in their charts would be blacklisted and no physician would want to touch them.

I could go on….

You are exactly right but teachers ARE held to these standards.

 

[braalian]

You are exactly right but teachers ARE held to these standards.

Are teachers’ salaries dependent on their students’ outcomes?

I’m genuinely asking, I have no idea how that works

 

[SweetSue92]

Are teachers’ salaries dependent on their students’ outcomes?

I’m genuinely asking, I have no idea how that works

No but our evaluations are. That means younger, non-tenured teachers can be let go and even more experienced teachers face repercussions.

 

[Lisa558]

No but our evaluations are. That means younger, non-tenured teachers can be let go and even more experienced teachers face repercussions.

But the same thing happens with people in other industries. I was held to how well I completed my major projects - even though it involved a team of people, even including people outside the company - to complete them.

The problem I see with how you view how “unfair” teachers have it is that you don’t appreciate that others face the same thing, or other obstacles.

The big problem that teachers face is the lowering caliber of education by “dumbing” things down - along with, of course, all the wokeness stuff. The leftists are more concerned with the feelings of the low performers than they are with encouraging the best and brightest to reach their potential. “Equity” is the problem.

The same with organizations in every blue city. They are more concerned with getting “diverse” management than the most capable management. Again, “equity.”

Most problem can be traced to liberal ideology.

 

[SweetSue92]

But the same thing happens with people in other industries. I was held to how well I completed my major projects - even though it involved a team of people, even including people outside the company - to complete them.

The problem I see with how you view how “unfair” teachers have it is that you don’t appreciate that others face the same thing, or other obstacles.

The big problem that teachers face is the lowering caliber of education by “dumbing” things down - along with, of course, all the wokeness stuff. The leftists are more concerned with the feelings of the low performers than they are with encouraging the best and brightest to reach their potential. “Equity” is the problem.

The same with organizations in every blue city. They are more concerned with getting “diverse” management than the most capable management. Again, “equity.”

Most problem can be traced to liberal ideology.

The adults you are paid to lead were chosen by someone who thought they could do the job, and WOULD do the job.

Is that how it works in public school? Teachers get to choose the students who are healthy, fed, and supported at home?

Or not?

 

[Lisa558]

The adults you are paid to lead were chosen by someone who thought they could do the job, and WOULD do the job.

Is that how it works in public school? Teachers get to choose the students who are healthy, fed, and supported at home?

Or not?

The point remains the same. I was often saddled with people who were chosen NOT because they were the best, but because they fit a minority status. Many were woefully unqualified and felt entitled to slide by.

Please be honest. EVERYONE who works with others are assigned people with problems, or not too bright, or not motivated…..whatever….and it impacts how well overall assignments are done, and yet the leader is still judged.

 

[SweetSue92]

The point remains the same. I was often saddled with people who were chosen NOT because they were the best, but because they fit a minority status. Many were woefully unqualified and felt entitled to slide by.

Please be honest. EVERYONE who works with others are assigned people with problems, or not too bright, or not motivated…..whatever….and it impacts how well overall assignments are done, and yet the leader is still judged.

Of course there are problems. But in every case someone SELECTED them.

We don't get to do that, and are still held to account for performance. Oh, and we can't fire bad students either. So.

 

[Lisa558]

Of course there are problems. But in every case someone SELECTED them.

We don't get to do that, and are still held to account for performance. Oh, and we can't fire bad students either. So.

The point is that I am held responsible for people I did not select - just as you are.

And I don’t get to fire them, either.

The concept is called “responsibility without authority,” and it is the same as what you are complaining about as a teacher.

 

[SweetSue92]

The point is that I am held responsible for people I did not select - just as you are.

And I don’t get to fire them, either.

The concept is called “responsibility without authority,” and it is the same as what you are complaining about as a teacher.

Okay tell you what. Have your company hire ALL the people within a neighborhood of a certain age. Say, everyone 35-50 is on your team, no matter their abilities, skills, experience or background.

Now YOU are held accountable for the collection of basically neighbors.

Good luck

 

[Lisa558]

Okay tell you what. Have your company hire ALL the people within a neighborhood of a certain age. Say, everyone 35-50 is on your team, no matter their abilities, skills, experience or background.

Now YOU are held accountable for the collection of basically neighbors.

Good luck

That’s no different than people being hired because they meet a “race quota”. I’m accountable for a collection of people, many of whom were chosen for diversity purposes rather than competence.

I admit you have it tough, but so do people in corporate America - largely due to DEI. Please stop pretending that teachers have it so much worse than others.

 

[SweetSue92]

That’s no different than people being hired because they meet a “race quota”. I’m accountable for a collection of people, many of whom were chosen for diversity purposes rather than competence.

I admit you have it tough, but so do people in corporate America - largely due to DEI. Please stop pretending that teachers have it so much worse than others.

The free market says they might not have it "worse", but the job is no longer worth the pay and hassle.

 

[Lisa558]

The free market says they might not have it "worse", but the job is no longer worth the pay and hassle.

You are always free to find something else.

I didn’t think the corporate gig was worth the pay, hassle, and stress - so I started my own business.