Average teachers pay vs average pay.

[eagle1462010]

She is correct on people leaving teaching. Hell even in good areas here in Alabama the have a 35% turnover rate.

In bad areas 75%. No one wants to work in a crime ridden Zoo.

 

[Lisa558]

She is correct on people leaving teaching. Hell even in good areas here in Alabama the have a 35% turnover rate.

In bad areas 75%. No one wants to work in a crime ridden Zoo.

That’s the problem, though, and pay won’t fix it: my aunt worked in Newark, NJ and feared for her life every day until my uncle insisted she quit.

(She was also the only white teacher, and the other teachers ostracized her.)

 

[eagle1462010]

That’s the problem, though, and pay won’t fix it: my aunt worked in Newark, NJ and feared for her life every day until my uncle insisted she quit.

(She was also the only white teacher, and the other teachers ostracized her.)

We are a nation in decline. The American dream is dying. Everything costs too much so kids resort to crime as they DGAF any more.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The range of teacher compensation is very broad.

In my school district (white, suburban), most teachers make six figures in total, and will retire before reaching age 55. Howzatt?

One of my bowling buddies is a retired teacher from Baton Rouge. He got a $25/month increase in his pension a few months ago...his first increase in 8 years.

It makes no sense to talk about "average American public school teacher salaries." It's nothing but an invitation to argue.

And administrators and department directors?
Whoo boy.
Easily 6 figures. The lowest departments like building/food directors here get $60-$70k. The LOWEST.

 

[SweetSue92]

You are always free to find something else.

I didn’t think the corporate gig was worth the pay, hassle, and stress - so I started my own business.

So many teachers have found something else they're bringing people into the classrooms with no degrees and no experience....

 

[SweetSue92]

We are a nation in decline. The American dream is dying. Everything costs too much so kids resort to crime as they DGAF any more.

This. And when that decline works its way into the schools, somehow, teachers are expected to fix all of it.

 

[eagle1462010]

This. And when that decline works its way into the schools, somehow, teachers are expected to fix all of it.

No one dreams of going into these crime ridden schools to work. One of my sisters was forced to teach at another school which was horrible and almost quit.

Didnt because of retirement.

 

[WorldWatcher]

And administrators and department directors?
Whoo boy.
Easily 6 figures. The lowest departments like building/food directors here get $60-$70k. The LOWEST.

Curious...

What is the size of their budgets?
What are the education levels/certifications required?
What are the sizes of the departments.

Out Food Services Director has 185 Staff and a personnel budget of over $3.5 Million and that doesn't include the operations budget for equipment, materials and consumables (food).

Ours is just over $100K and she earns it.

Funny though that people always go to the top of the food chain, they never complain about janitors, teacher assistants, records clerks, bus drivers and secretaries when talking about high rates of pay. They always point to the top.

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

But the same thing happens with people in other industries. I was held to how well I completed my major projects - even though it involved a team of people, even including people outside the company - to complete them.

The problem I see with how you view how “unfair” teachers have it is that you don’t appreciate that others face the same thing, or other obstacles.

The big problem that teachers face is the lowering caliber of education by “dumbing” things down - along with, of course, all the wokeness stuff. The leftists are more concerned with the feelings of the low performers than they are with encouraging the best and brightest to reach their potential. “Equity” is the problem.

The same with organizations in every blue city. They are more concerned with getting “diverse” management than the most capable management. Again, “equity.”

Most problem can be traced to liberal ideology.

Was the evaluation of your personal performance based on a test that your students had absolutely zero incentive to do well on?

If you build cars, would your pay be determined by how many drivers had to get brake jobs because they rode their brakes?

If you were dentist, would you be rated on how many cavities your patient's get?

If you are an oncologist, would you be rated on how many of your patients refused chemo and died?

I would like you to give an example of dumbing things down, because in 21 years of teaching, I never saw it. I don't think any other teachers have either. The lax discipline in schools is another whole different ball of wax.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Curious...

What is the size of their budgets?
What are the education levels/certifications required?
What are the sizes of the departments.

Out Food Services Director has 185 Staff and a personnel budget of over $3.5 Million and that doesn't include the operations budget for equipment and consumables (food).

Ours is just over $100K and she earns it.

Funny though that people always go to the top of the food chain, they never complain about janitors, teacher assistants, records clerks, bus drivers and secretaries when talking about high rates of pay. They always point to the top.

WW

Depends on the setup.
Here, like a growing number of school systems, outsource their food program to companies like Chartwell. These companies take care off all food prep, all food buying, all menu planning, and they are the ones who employ the kitchen staff.
So, while the food director has a $multi-million budget - 95% of it is simply a single monthly payment to the corporation. And they have 0 employees of their own. And the school treasurers handle the money. This is becoming more common. But they kept the same salary as before. And me personally - I LOVE IT. My wife is that person.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The point is that I am held responsible for people I did not select - just as you are.

And I don’t get to fire them, either.

The concept is called “responsibility without authority,” and it is the same as what you are complaining about as a teacher.

You are responsible for you, are you not? You are not responsible for the performance of your coworkers. You are not responsible for the performance of your supervisors. You are however responsible for whoever is under your supervision.

Of I cannot discipline my students or have them disciplined by administrators, I cannot do my job, I was basically fired by one principal for demanding he do something about a dangerous student. Yet I was held responsible when that student failed and caused other students to fail. When I left, they continued to fail. I moved on to a better school with kids who didn't throw desks in the middle of my class time. That's the part about teaching you do not get.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Depends on the setup.
Here, like a growing number of school systems, outsource their food program to companies like Chartwell. These companies take care off all food prep, all food buying, all menu planning, and they are the ones who employ the kitchen staff.
So, while the food director has a $multi-million budget - 95% of it is simply a single monthly payment to the corporation. And they have 0 employees of their own. And the school treasurers handle the money. This is becoming more common. But they kept the same salary as before. And me personally - I LOVE IT. My wife is that person.

From: "Easily 6 figures. The lowest departments like building/food directors here get $60-$70k. The LOWEST."

So now, your wife is this person.

Has no staff and writes one check a month to the vendor, but the school treasures handle the money.

Somehow I don't believe you now what is really happening in School Food Services Departments.

For a number of years we outsourced Janitorial Services, but a couple of years ago brought them back in-house as employees because it was (a) more efficient, (b) lower cost, and (c) since they were direct employees we had more control over the quality.

WW

 

[iamwhatiseem]

From: "Easily 6 figures. The lowest departments like building/food directors here get $60-$70k. The LOWEST."

So now, your wife is this person.

Has no staff and writes one check a month to the vendor, but the school treasures handle the money.

Somehow I don't believe you now what is really happening in School Food Services Departments.

For a number of years we outsourced Janitorial Services, but a couple of years ago brought them back in-house as employees because it was (a) more efficient, (b) lower cost, and (c) since they were direct employees we had more control over the quality.

WW

The big business of school meals - Kappan Online

Big corporations and food service companies are making millions of dollars from public school meal programs, often to the detriment of students and their health.

kappanonline.org

 

[WorldWatcher]

The big business of school meals - Kappan Online

Big corporations and food service companies are making millions of dollars from public school meal programs, often to the detriment of students and their health.

kappanonline.org

We don't use an outside vendor.

We keep it inhouse with allows us to control efficiency, quality, and costs.

WW

 

[Lisa558]

You are responsible for you, are you not? You are not responsible for the performance of your coworkers. You are not responsible for the performance of your supervisors. You are however responsible for whoever is under your supervision.

Of I cannot discipline my students or have them disciplined by administrators, I cannot do my job, I was basically fired by one principal for demanding he do something about a dangerous student. Yet I was held responsible when that student failed and caused other students to fail. When I left, they continued to fail. I moved on to a better school with kids who didn't throw desks in the middle of my class time. That's the part about teaching you do not get.

Yes, I was responsible for the people on my team, who often were selected to advance DEI, whose abilities or lack thereof impact the successful completion of the project. You don’t honestly think that a failure will be blamed on the black gay female who messes up the project, do you?

 

[eagle1462010]

Yes, I was responsible for the people on my team, who often were selected to advance DEI, whose abilities or lack thereof impact the successful completion of the project. You don’t honestly think that a failure will be blamed on the black gay female who messes up the project, do you?

What type of project?

Schools in bad areas will be in gangs who will kill you for actions after school.

Some schools teachers should get combat pay.

 

[Unkotare]

The free market says they might not have it "worse", but the job is no longer worth the pay and hassle.

And yet you lack the courage of your convictions to shut up and quit.

 

[Unkotare]

No one dreams of going into these crime ridden schools to work. ...

That's exactly the kind of district I sought out.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Some schools teachers should get combat pay.

Funny you mention that.

We did that about 10 years ago as we really focused on getting some schools in poorer neighborhoods up to speed because they were struggling with state accreditation. The program lasted about 3 or 4 years if I remember correct.

Technically is was called a "Under Serviced Schools Supplement" and it was a few thousand dollars for the year. Participation was purely voluntary and it was offered as an incentive to entice some of out top performing teachers to leave their home school for a year (or a few years if they volunteered again to return).

The program also involved transfers of Principals and APs and some were encourage to retire or find employment elsewhere.

So with invigorated Administrators and Teachers The results were actually very, VERY good. The goal, which was successful was to establish an environment of success. Developing a culture of change, expectations, and achivement.

I say funny you mention that because while it was called "Under Serviced Schools Supplement" or something like that, we in the business offices always called it "combat pay".



WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes, I was responsible for the people on my team, who often were selected to advance DEI, whose abilities or lack thereof impact the successful completion of the project. You don’t honestly think that a failure will be blamed on the black gay female who messes up the project, do you?

No. It was your fault, but you won't admit it!