Zone1 Are Atheists Happier Than Christians?

[Red Front]

Everyone is redeemed through the blood of Christ. Redemption is an unconditional gift. Your salvation is between you and God.

Salvation begins with the grace of God but requires us to choose whether to receive this grace or reject it. If we choose to receive grace, we choose a life aligned with the will of God but it we don’t receive it, we remain in a life of sin. For most people this is a process; a journey.

So are you saying that a person can be saved and redeemed from being separated from God forever, without being a Christian?

 

[Clyde 154]

So a Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, atheist..etc, has to become a Christian in order to receive salvation and redemption? What are the consequences of not becoming a Christian or not being saved and redeemed?

The scriptures address your question. The creator simply allows you to live your life as does an animal.....having allowed your reprobate animalistic worldly mind to do as you wish........having already revealed to you His existence and proven Himself by the things that are created without explanation by any of man's philosophies to include the pseudoscience (Theoretical Science) being promoted today as Applied Science that concludes with evidences of fact..... (Romans 1)

"Professing to be wise.........they became fools." -- 1:22-25 You can't science your way into heaven.......its all about spiritualism. Science and the laws of physics do not judge, reward, condemn, reprieve......they are simply Laws that are enforced. There is not one natural LAW that can prove the non-existence of GOD. Laws do not deal in negatives.

.........and yes, if you refuse to accept God's moral conditions (those transcending moral codes that exist all over the globe).........you are without excuse, your spirit will remain separated from God for eternity. There is only one path to salvation........a path that God would have all men accept by coming to the knowledge of the truth( 1 Tim.2:4-6).......there is only 1 path to the Father, clear and unambiguous: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

As far as hell and eternal punishment ........the scriptures answer this also. Its YOUR CHOICE........you are judged by comparing your life with the content of the Books (the eternal record of God's word...i.e, the combined books of the Holy Scriptures) and the Book of Life. God sentences no one to hell...........you sentence yourself.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books.......according to their works." -- Rev. 20:12

 

[ding]

I've already expressed the fact that I don't believe that God condemns people to hell for not believing in a particular religion. Now for the 10th time, I'm asking you. Do you believe God condemns people to the state of hell ( being consciously separated from Him forever), if they're not Christians? Easy question. Can you answer it?

I couldn’t have answered it more clearly. Play back for me what I told you was the difference between redemption and salvation. Does anywhere in that description does it mention any religion at all?

 

[ding]

So are you saying that a person can be saved and redeemed from being separated from God forever, without being a Christian?

I’m saying every single person who has ever existed or will ever exist regardless of race, creed or color is redeemed through the body and blood of Christ.

And that the salvation of every single person who has ever existed or will ever exist regardless of race, creed or color is between them and God and ultimately their acceptance of the will of God.

 

[Red Front]

The scriptures address your question. The creator simply allows you to live your life as does an animal.....having allowed your reprobate animalistic worldly mind to do as you wish........having already revealed to you His existence and proven Himself by the things that are created without explanation by any of man's philosophies to include the pseudoscience (Theoretical Science) being promoted today as Applied Science that concludes with evidences of fact..... (Romans 1)

"Professing to be wise.........they became fools." -- 1:22-25 You can't science your way into heaven.......its all about spiritualism. Science and the laws of physics do not judge, reward, condemn, reprieve......they are simply Laws that are enforced. There is not one natural LAW that can prove the non-existence of GOD. Laws do not deal in negatives.

.........and yes, if you refuse to accept God's moral conditions (those transcending moral codes that exist all over the globe).........you are without excuse, your spirit will remain separated from God for eternity. There is only one path to salvation........a path that God would have all men accept by coming to the knowledge of the truth( 1 Tim.2:4-6).......there is only 1 path to the Father, clear and unambiguous: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

As far as hell and eternal punishment ........the scriptures answer this also. Its YOUR CHOICE........you are judged by comparing your life with the content of the Books (the eternal record of God's word...i.e, the combined books of the Holy Scriptures) and the Book of Life. God sentences no one to hell...........you sentence yourself.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books.......according to their works." -- Rev. 20:12

Thank you for being straightforward and honest. I believe that if there is truly a personal God, that is loving and just, not to speak of His omnipotence and omniscience, absolute, infinite genius, He would create a path of reform and salvation for all of his sentient creatures. This path of restoration might indeed involve a painful process but in the end, this almighty, good God, would restore his creation, not abandoning anyone to an eternal state of perdition or torment.

Asserting that a God who is identified in the NT as LOVE itself would demand that every human being convert to the Christian religion to be reconciled to Him is inconsistent with the nature and quality of love. Can't this omnipotent, absolutely creative, and compassionate God figure out a more constructive, love-affirming way to justify His divine sense of justice, than demanding everyone convert to just one of many religions in the world? Why does anyone have to convert or "believe" in religious dogma, to avoid being separated from their Creator and tortured forever?

The Christian God wants you and I to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us yet He keeps people alive in a state of eternal torment. Isn't this inconsistent, a bit odd to say the least? Isn't He creative and powerful enough to figure out a way to redeem His beloved human creation without requiring people to convert to one of many religions, in just one lifetime? He didn't consider the fact that there are many cultures and religions, with their own view of the world and God? Does he demand that everyone, irrespective of their culture and conditioning, convert to just one religion of many? Really?

People have to "believe" (why belief?) the missionary that hands them the pamphlet, leaving their religion, or they burn in hell forever. That's compatible with the definition of justice, love, compassion, omnipotence, absolute genius, and creativity? God couldn't figure out a better way to reconcile humanity to Himself, a humanity that is suffering in an indifferent universe that trying to kill them. All of the challenges, obstacles, diseases, suffering, wars, hunger, poverty, gross injustice, ignorance, all of that is ignored by your God, who you define as "Love Itself", it seels quite obscene and preposterous.

Why can't He purge a human soul of its corruption in a purgative state or place, allowing them to purify themselves and gradually establish and cultivate a relationship with Him? You have to figure it all out, with respect to which religion is the "correct one" to establish a relationship with your God, avoiding eternal perdition. You have to "believe" in a particular set of religious dogmas to avoid being tortured in hell for all eternity.

"What What what? You didn't believe that I was born of the virgin Mary 2000 years ago? I was a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth, and I was executed by the Romans, rising from the dead three days later for your sins. What? You didn't believe that? No not Muhammad. Not Krishna, not Buddha, not Guru Nanak, not Sai Baba, you're going to hell now Bubba. I don't want you around me, you're not a born-again Protestant Christian. You didn't convert to Christianity. I'm going to keep you conscious in hell for all eternity, for not believing that I was born of the virgin Mary and became a Jewish carpenter. Get away from me...."

 

[alang1216]

I think that way because you are not at peace.

You think that way because you fear I am at peace.

 

[Red Front]

I’m saying every single person who has ever existed or will ever exist regardless of race, creed or color is redeemed through the body and blood of Christ.

And that the salvation of every single person who has ever existed or will ever exist regardless of race, creed or color is between them and God and ultimately their acceptance of the will of God.

So they don't have to convert to Christianity to avoid hell. They can establish a relationship with God without being a Christian. Is that what you're saying? Correct me if I'm wrong. They don't have to be of the Christian creed.

 

[Clyde 154]

Thank you for being straightforward and honest. I believe that if there is truly a personal God, that is loving and just, not to speak of His omnipotence and omniscience, absolute, infinite genius, He would create a path of reform and salvation for all of his sentient creatures. This path of restoration might indeed involve a painful process but in the end, this almighty, good God, would restore his creation, not abandoning anyone to an eternal state of perdition or torment.

Asserting that a God who is identified in the NT as LOVE itself would demand that every human being convert to the Christian religion to be reconciled to Him is inconsistent with the nature and quality of love. Can't this omnipotent, absolutely creative, and compassionate God figure out a more constructive, love-affirming way to justify His divine sense of justice, than demanding everyone convert to just one of many religions in the world? Why does anyone have to convert or "believe" in religious dogma, to avoid being separated from their Creator and tortured forever?

The Christian God wants you and I to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us yet He keeps people alive in a state of eternal torment. Isn't this inconsistent, a bit odd to say the least? Isn't He creative and powerful enough to figure out a way to redeem His beloved human creation without requiring people to convert to one of many religions, in just one lifetime? He didn't consider the fact that there are many cultures and religions, with their own view of the world and God? Does he demand that everyone, irrespective of their culture and conditioning, convert to just one religion of many? Really?

People have to "believe" (why belief?) the missionary that hands them the pamphlet, leaving their religion, or they burn in hell forever. That's compatible with the definition of justice, love, compassion, omnipotent, absolute genius, and creativity? God couldn't figure out a better way to reconcile humanity to Himself, a humanity that is suffering in an indifferent universe that trying to kill them. All of the challenges, obstacles, diseases, suffering, wars, hunger, poverty, gross injustice, ignorance, all of that is ignored by your God, who you define as "Love Itself", it seels quite obscene and preposterous.

Why can't He purge a human soul of its corruption in a purgative state or place, allowing them to purify themselves and gradually establish and cultivate a relationship with Him? You have to figure it all out, with respect to which religion is the "correct one" to establish a relationship with your God, avoiding eternal perdition. You have to "believe" in a particular set of religious dogmas to avoid being tortured in hell for all eternity.

"What What what? You didn't believe that I was born of the virgin Mary 2000 years ago? I was a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth, and I was executed by the Romans, rising from the dead three days later for your sins. What? You didn't believe that? No not Muhammad. Not Krishna, not Buddha, not Guru Nanak, not Sai Baba, you're going to hell now Bubba. I don't want you around me, you're not a born-again Protestant Christian. You didn't convert to Christianity. I'm going to keep you conscious in hell for all eternity, for not believing that I was born of the virgin Mary and became a Jewish carpenter. Get away from me...."

Your beliefs are based upon a logical fallacy......i.e., a false premise. The God of the N.T. is the same God as was in the O.T., He never changes.......what has changed are the Covenants or agreements that God has presented to mankind. These covenants exist as 3 primary covenants 1. The Abrahamic Covenant (with the covenant of Adam and Noah preceding) 2. The Mosaic Covenant.....and lastly the final......i.e, the Last days of mankind, the Covenant of Christ Jesus, the Messiah from God's plan of salvation that existed before the worlds were formed or time began.........a mystery to man and even the prophets who foretold of its coming until God's revealed it through the birth, life, death and resurrection of His only begotten Son.

The faults with the first covenants were not due to any error of God....but, they were designed to be but temporary as God was husbanded only to one nation prior to the N.T. covenant (Jer. 31:31-34)..........the fault of the Mosaic covenant was with men who continually used the gift of free will to make unrighteous....lawless decisions, with the only remedy for sin being a temporary burnt animal sacrifice carrying sin over one year to the next........simply because there is a recorded history of the O.T. does not indicate that God endorsed or authorized all that is recorded in that history.......the scriptures present the truth, the good, the bad and the ugly concerning the human condition and man's struggle with sin.

This plan for man's salvation found in the revealed word of God...i.e, the Holy Scriptures, demonstrate that God always had a plan for the salvation of His greatest creation, mankind......this plan existed before time began or the world's were created (1 Peter 1:20, 2 Tim. 1:9). This plan was hidden (a mystery that was revealed -- Col. 1:26-27) from mankind and the prophets who foretold of its coming (Eph. 3:5-6, 1 Peter 1:10-12) until God, at a time of His choosing, revealed the mystery to mankind though the Holy Ghost inspired word's of the Apostles of Christ (Eph. 3:5, 1 Peter 1:12)

We are told in scripture that when we read what is written within the word of God that we may understand God's will (Eph. 3:4). We are actually commanded to understand the will of God (Eph. 5:17)......and God actually desires that all men find salvation by coming to the knowledge of this truth.........this revealed mystery (2 Tim. 2:3,4)

Thus....man has no excuse for not understanding the terms of this contract...i.e., the law. God.........does not play favorites in this life, (God has no respect of person -- Romans 2:11) the rain falls on the just and the unjust.....all the troubles, calamities, sorrows, love, hope, etc., are all based upon the free will decisions of mankind. Jesus........God incarnate, informs us that His mission to earth was to deliver the truth from heaven that could save mankind's eternal Spirit/Soul......that we should quest for spiritual salvation instead of questing for the things to feed the flesh (whose world belongs to Satan....as he is the god of this world -- 2 Cor. 4:4)

Jesus' mission statement was to deliver this truth....to reveal the mystery to those who would but hear His voice of Truth, ".......everyone that is of the Truth, HEARS MY VOICE." -- John 18:37

As revealed..........Jesus actually "chastised" those who followed Him following the miracle of the loaves and the fish, He told them directly that they did not seek Him out to find the spiritual truth that could save their souls......but they followed Him to fill their stomachs, that they should feed the spirit and fear Him that can destroy both body and soul......that it was not His purpose to feed the flesh (John 6:26-27). He even told them........"the poor you will have among you ALWAYS..." -- John 12:8. Why will there always be the poor, the evil, the good, and the bad among us? Because its all based upon free will decisions. The poor have always made POOR DECISIONS concerning their life circumstance or they would not be poor. What about the poor due to illness? (its nature....but the poor will always be among us) You can't legislate poverty out of existence. The fact that our government has spent TRILLIONS of dollars attempting to change the poverty index...with little to no movement since the government supposedly declared war on poverty..........poverty is holding its own.

Again.........God has no respect of person, you decide where you want your soul to spend eternity, as its a gift from God, no one is worthy to be saved (Romans 3:10).......God's love for mankind is so great that He gave His only Begotten Son (John 3:16)......as a sacrifice to take the sins of the world upon Himself (1 Peter 2:4).........all that is required to receive this gift is to follow the terms of the Will or Testament. "If you love Me you will follow My commandments (John 14:15) Those who refuse to hear the voice of Jesus has that which judges him on the day of judgment.........his life will be compared to the words of Jesus. Jesus did not come to JUDGE the world.........BUT TO SAVE IT. (John 12:47-48)

Those that have never had access to the word? The righteous does by nature what is correct, and they become a law upon themselves (Romans 2:14)......but in order to find salvation through this method, a man must walk a perfect sin free life, something that only one man in history has accomplished........Jesus Christ who was tempted as are all men but sinned not (Heb.4:15-16)

Jesus who is equal to God, who found it not robbery to be equal with God......gave up His divine attributes at birth (Phil. 2:6-10)

Jesus, the Son of Man (Adam) did no miracles until He was baptized by John the Baptist and the Holy Spirit fell upon Him in the form of a dove. (Luke 3:22). Jesus' ministry lasted but 3 years.

 

[ding]

You think that way because you fear I am at peace.

I wish you were.

 

[ding]

So they don't have to convert to Christianity to avoid hell. They can establish a relationship with God without being a Christian. Is that what you're saying? Correct me if I'm wrong. They don't have to be of the Christian creed.

What part of what I wrote did you not understand?

 

[Meriweather]

So they don't have to convert to Christianity to avoid hell. They can establish a relationship with God without being a Christian. Is that what you're saying? Correct me if I'm wrong. They don't have to be of the Christian creed.

The Christian creed is for Christians. I imagine, as a whole, Christians do not give a thought to what people of other denominations and other religious and non-religious faith believe/say about them. I also imagine Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. don't give any thought to what Christians believe/say about them.

Would you agree that this seems to be a purely atheist concern? If I don't care that other Christian denominations say/believe I am going to hell, why does it bother you/others, especially those who do not even believe heaven/hell exist?

 

[BreezeWood]

The Christian creed is for Christians. I imagine, as a whole, Christians do not give a thought to what people of other denominations and other religious and non-religious faith believe/say about them. I also imagine Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. don't give any thought to what Christians believe/say about them.

Would you agree that this seems to be a purely atheist concern? If I don't care that other Christian denominations say/believe I am going to hell, why does it bother you/others, especially those who do not even believe heaven/hell exist?

prove first who they claim was a messiah ever claimed they were and what is written in the 4th century christian bible is an authentic representation of the 1st century events ... nothing of which was archived by those that wrote that book.

and that the christian creed was ever witnessed or approved by those that gave their lives for issues not mentioned in any of those documents - liberation theology, self determination. without any reference to a messiah by any of them.

 

[Red Front]

The Christian creed is for Christians. I imagine, as a whole, Christians do not give a thought to what people of other denominations and other religious and non-religious faith believe/say about them. I also imagine Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. don't give any thought to what Christians believe/say about them.

Would you agree that this seems to be a purely atheist concern? If I don't care that other Christian denominations say/believe I am going to hell, why does it bother you/others, especially those who do not even believe heaven/hell exist?

I do care what other people believe about reality because I don't live in a vacuum. Bad ideas and attitudes can and often do lead to bad behavior, that undermines my interests and survival, because I have to coexist and share this world with them. It behooves me to challenge such beliefs and to get my own cherished assertions scrutinized as well. You may not care if you're living in a community full of people with irrational, dogmatic, sectarianistic, ethnocentric, xenophobic, sexist, racist, and imperialistic. etc. ideals, but I do.

 

[Red Front]

What part of what I wrote did you not understand?

Thanks for clarifying that you don't believe a person has to be a Christian to avoid damnation or inherit eternal life.

 

[alang1216]

I wish you were.

No you don't. If I were it would negate everything you believe.

 

[ding]

No you don't. If I were it would negate everything you believe.

I don’t see how. Quite the opposite.

 

[ding]

Thanks for clarifying that you don't believe a person has to be a Christian to avoid damnation or inherit eternal life.

So then it shouldn’t be a problem for you to accept the will of God.

 

[Blues Man]

Everyone is more unhappy nowadays. That said, in both history and my.personal interactions with people, Atheists are far more comfortable with evil. Some of the very issues that make people unhappy.

Evil like right and wrong are purely subjective.

People will do terrible things
People have always done terrible things
People will always do terrible things

It is inevitable because it is our nature.

Just because some people may be able to reconcile this fact in no way means they are comfortable with it.

 

[SweetSue92]

You don't need religion to have hope for a better future.

What's even better than hope is action.

Hope is a wish and the old saying goes wish in one hand and and shit in the other and see which one fills up first

What action matters, in atheism?

You are space dust floating around on an obscure space rock, doomed to oblivion.

So what?

 

[SweetSue92]

Evil like right and wrong are purely subjective.

People will do terrible things
People have always done terrible things
People will always do terrible things

It is inevitable because it is our nature.

Just because some people may be able to reconcile this fact in no way means they are comfortable with it.

Heh

You claim they are subjective, and then use the word "terrible" and invoke "our nature".

If these things are subjective, like the flavor of ice cream, what are you even talking about?