'Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic'?

[Mindful]

You parrot this self same stuff on every thread you infest.

No doubt you'd do it on a gardening thread. Confusing growing cucumbers with your intense obsessions.

Well, yes. The facts don't change so they tend to remain the same. Inconvenient truths enrage propagandists such as yourself. Do you think your kind can pull the wool over everyone's eyes?

And it certainly is germane to the thread. It supports the fact that criticizing expropriation and exploitation of native people by colonizers and occupiers cannot be antisemitic as colonizers of all religions, race, ethnicity, nationality can be equally criticized.

We're not talking about colonialists.

What did you mean by "your kind"?

What do you mean they weren't colonists? What were they, day trippers, tourists? The Zionists were colonists and they were proud of it.

Zionists.

What did you mean: "your kind"?

Zionists.

Oh, for a moment there, I thought you meant the J word.

 

[montelatici]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

 

[Mindful]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

Well if Jews said it, it must be right.

 

[montelatici]

Just a fact. Not all Jews are Zionists. Nothing about Jews being right or wrong.

 

[Lipush]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

The minority- the Haredim and the crazy extra leftists

 

[Mindful]

Just a fact. Not all Jews are Zionists. Nothing about Jews being right or wrong.

Yawn.......

 

[montelatici]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

The minority- the Haredim and the crazy extra leftists

That's how the Boers saw their anti-Apartheid white co-nationalists. Not unusual in these kinds of conflicts.

 

[montelatici]

Just a fact. Not all Jews are Zionists. Nothing about Jews being right or wrong.

Yawn.......

Now, isn't that clever.

 

[Humanity]

Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

As soon as you reduce your criticism to hate speech by using terms out of context then you become a racist. It took 20 years from the end of the war for people to realise that the words used by Germans from the 1930's were racist terms in their contextual meanings. Because we are more enlightened and educated we can see when YOU use such terms as Zionist, hasbara et al as RACIST HATE SPEECH because we understand your contextual meanings.

Ah Phoney, no surprise that you THINK you know everything...

But, unfortunately, you don't...

You clearly delusional and every post you make simply shows that you really know nothing and are one of the most hate filled 'contributors' on this board...

Link?

Phoenall

Read every post, that should be proof enough!

 

[Mindful]

Just a fact. Not all Jews are Zionists. Nothing about Jews being right or wrong.

Yawn.......

Now, isn't that clever.

Did you want to say something?

 

[montelatici]

What?

 

[Mindful]

Okay. You don't.

 

[Shusha]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

Remember that poll I posted yesterday? The one that noted 91% of Jews believe that having a Jewish State is essential to the survival of the Jewish people? All of us are Zionists.

There are no Jews who are opposed to Zionism -- opposed to the idea of the Jewish people being liberated, safe, secure and free to pursue self-determination. There should be no PEOPLE who are opposed to a concept as simple and obviously morally correct as that.

The small percentage of Jews who do not actively pursue Zionism or who reject it are not rejecting the CONCEPT of Zionism -- they are only rejecting the manner in which it comes about. They believe it should come from G-d and not from the people. They believe that certain signs must be in place, certain events must happen BEFORE Zionism. But they don't reject Zionism itself.

 

[Shusha]

And, frankly, your insistence that there are some Jews who are opposed to Zionism is just another way to undermine the concept of Zionism by saying, "See? Even the Jews think its a bad idea".

 

[montelatici]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

Remember that poll I posted yesterday? The one that noted 91% of Jews believe that having a Jewish State is essential to the survival of the Jewish people? Nearly all of us are Zionists.

There are no Jews who are opposed to Zionism -- opposed to the idea of the Jewish people being liberated, safe, secure and free to pursue self-determination. There should be no PEOPLE who are opposed to a concept as simple and obviously morally correct as that.

The small percentage of Jews who do not actively pursue Zionism or who reject it are not rejecting the CONCEPT of Zionism -- they are only rejecting the manner in which it comes about. They believe it should come from G-d and not from the people. They believe that certain signs must be in place, certain events much happen BEFORE Zionism. But they don't reject Zionism itself.

"Overall, about seven-in-ten Jews surveyed say they feel either very attached (30%) or somewhat attached (39%) to Israel..."

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/10/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey-overview.pdf

 

[Shusha]

Excluding very few Islamist fanatics that post here, the neutral's position vis-a-vis the Israeli Jews is no different than their position was or would have been towards the whites in Apartheid South Africa, the French in Algeria, the whites in Rhodesia etc.

For example, there was no hate for the Europeans that ruled South Africa, what was hated was their policies and their insistence that South Africa would have to remain a white-ruled nation through the disenfranchisement of a large part of the population.

Accusing anyone that criticizes Israel in this section of the forum, dedicated to the I/P conflict, is childish and absurd. You demand that Israeli Jews be given a pass for their brutal treatment of a population as large as their own, forget about it, it isn't going to happen. There is plenty of Muslim bashing, for good reason, in the Middle East and Europe sections, and I am one of the bashers, go there if you want to observe the criticizing of the actions of Muslim ruled states for behaving as the Israeli state behaves.

Neutral? Who are you calling "neutral"?

The rejection of a Jewish claim to our ancestral and historical and religious homeland is not neutral. Its a rejection of an obvious truth in order to negate any rights of the Jewish people to the same rights you would grant other people. You don't argue that the rights of one peoples must be balanced with the rights of another peoples -- you claim, with regularity, that the Jewish people do not have rights.

You even reject the idea of a Jewish people -- you reject the existence of the Jewish people as Jews and instead label us nothing more than a motley collection of Europeans with the intent to exploit a foreign country.
There is nothing neutral about it. And to hold different rules for the Jewish people that you would for all others is anti-semitism.


As for criticizing Israel -- when do you actually criticize Israel's policies or actions? I haven't seen anything even remotely critical of Israel's policies or actions from you. You spend all your time rejecting Israel and rejecting the Jewish people's tie to our homeland. Why don't you go over to the thread about the tunnels and actually talk about the tunnels, as an example. Why don't you tell us what policy Israel SHOULD have about the tunnels? THAT would be a conversation which is being critical of Israel.

Actually, just to prove how very neutral you are and how you can be legitimately critical of Israel -- why don't you spend an entire month not posting anything at all about Israel's right to exist or the Jewish people's right to a portion of that territory. All of our anti-Israel posters should try that for a month. It would be refreshing.

 

[Shusha]

"Overall, about seven-in-ten Jews surveyed say they feel either very attached (30%) or somewhat attached (39%) to Israel..."

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/10/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey-overview.pdf

Its a discussion. Not dodgeball. What's your point as it relates to my post?

 

[Roudy]

The

I would agree with 1, 3 and 4.

#2 - not so much. Look at the people who post here. Many tend to have their own particular areas of interest and specialization and passion. What drives people to "single out" Israel might be the same thing which drives people to, at one time, "single out" South Africa, or "single out" Burma. There seems to be this expectation that once must be equitable in condemnations around the world and that expectation only comes up with Israel.[/QUOTE

I know you feel compelled to defend your Islamist and Nazi friends here, but when your fellow antisemites single out Israel, they do so because it is the one Jewish state in the world.

The double standards used to attack the Jewish state are so obvious in the way that NOBODY else in the world is attacked for anything even remotely similar removes any doubt as to the ethnic basis of your hatred. Especially considering your automatic defense of those with the very worst human rights abuses in the world, your concern here has nothing to do with human rights and everything to do with antisemitism.

re

Excluding very few Islamist fanatics that post here, the neutral's position vis-a-vis the Israeli Jews is no different than their position was or would have been towards the whites in Apartheid South Africa, the French in Algeria, the whites in Rhodesia etc.

For example, there was no hate for the Europeans that ruled South Africa, what was hated was their policies and their insistence that South Africa would have to remain a white-ruled nation through the disenfranchisement of a large part of the population.

Accusing anyone that criticizes Israel in this section of the forum, dedicated to the I/P conflict, is childish and absurd. You demand that Israeli Jews be given a pass for their brutal treatment of a population as large as their own, forget about it, it isn't going to happen. There is plenty of Muslim bashing, for good reason, in the Middle East and Europe sections, and I am one of the bashers, go there if you want to observe the criticizing of the actions of Muslim ruled states for behaving as the Israeli state behaves.

How many times have you been told that nobody's buying your Israel / South Africa comparison? Whites were not in South Africa thousands of years before the blacks, nor did they maintain a presence and keep coming back to South Africa for thousands of years despite the many invasions and pogroms, nor is South Africa the religious, spiritual, and cultural holy land of the whites for 3000 years, as it is with Israel and the Jews. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with regards to the differences. Other things could be mentioned such as equal rights to the two million Arab Muslim citizens in Israel, and Arab Muslim representatives in the Israeli Parlaiment.

Nor does it have anything absolutely to do with the topic of this thread and in fact anything on this forum. But hey, go ahead and post it another 5000 times, just like those five irrelevant loser documents you somehow inject into every thread.

Well, not that it makes any difference. The European Jews hadn't been going "back", they had never been to Palestine. That's a bunch of self-serving bullshit. A myth that only Jews believe does not change the moral compass. The Koran might tell Muslims that non-believers must be converted, I not only reject that, I find it absurd and despicable, just as I reject and find despicable the biblical justification for the expropriation of the non-Jews of Palestine.

But, we have a more recent example of expropriation of the native people. Former American slave groups expropriated the native people living in what was to become Liberia and colonized. They lived separate from the natives and were able to maintain absolute rule for 130 years until finally overthrown by the native people, led by the native leader Samuel Doe in 1980.

The colonization and exploitation of the native people by the Americo-Liberians for 130 years can't be justified by the suffering caused by slavery or by the claim that the Americo-Liberian's ancestors came from Africa.

That notwithstanding, the dynamics of the European colonization of Rhodesia and South Africa are no different than the European colonization of Palestine.

Again your comparison is totally useless, because most of today's Jews come from thousands of years of Jewish ancestry, there has always been a Jewish presence in Israel and especially in the last 700 years of the Ottoman Empire where Jews were invited from all over to repopulate their holy land.

Clearly the Ottomans who were Muslims themselves realized that the land is Jewish holy land first and foremost. So Jews from the Middle East, Europe and elsewhere had every right to go back and join their brethern in re-establishing their ancestral homeland, free from persecution and the genocide they had faced over the last two millennia.

So your comparisons to South Africa are null and void as the Whites had no ancestral, religious, historical, or cultural ties to South Africa, nor did they maintain a presence for 2000 years, like the Jews did to Israel.

But like I said, if you want to repeat the same ineffective, irrelvant bullshit comparison, go right ahead, It won't change any of the facts of the ground. Israel moves on.

 

[montelatici]

"Overall, about seven-in-ten Jews surveyed say they feel either very attached (30%) or somewhat attached (39%) to Israel..."

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/10/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey-overview.pdf

Its a discussion. Not dodgeball. What's your point as it relates to my post?

That 91% of Jews are supporters of Zionism is out of line with the results of Pew's survey. It is not clear to me how a Jew can be a Zionist if he/she isn't at least "somewhat attached to Israel".

 

[Roudy]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and a great many Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

Bull. 99.99% of Jews are Zionists. Israel, Jerusalem, and the return of Jews to their promised holy land aka Zionism has been central to the Jewish faith for over 3500 years. In fact both the Christian and Muslim faith also confirm that the land belongs to the Jews.