'Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic'?

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This is a bit of an aside Shusha, but some DID invision an exclusively Jewish state - this came up when I was reading about the Dar Yassin massacre - there were factions that DID want exactly that.

But again, ask WHY. Why did they envision an exclusively Jewish State? What was the purpose of that? Was it a "nefarious plan" or only the desperate need for the Jewish people to be SAFE?

Also, be careful of painting the whole group with the same broad brush. And of applying modern moral standards to past events. And of bringing forward past events as though they give us clues about today's issues or beliefs.

This is where even the most fair minded of people can slide into a kind of wrong-thinking that is harmful, possibly without meaning to be.

That a small portion of the population, according to the thinking of the time (which was much more open to population transfers in order to create ethnically cohesive states) believed a thing says exactly NOTHING about today's Israel or today's Israelis.

And by making statements like the one you did -- you draw a parallel which is UNFAIRLY judgmental about Israel and Israelis today. The implication being that if factions DID want that, then factions DO STILL want that and thus it was a "nefarious plan".

Again, I am not saying that was your intent, but it comes off that way. Else why bring it up? As opposed to responding to the IMPORTANT POINT in my post, which is: the Jewish people are still (STILL!) concerned for survival.
 
The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

Except that Jews have always lived in Palestine - they ARE one of the native inhabitants.

Let's get our definitions straight. An Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew. An Inuit is not a native inhabitant of Palestine likewise a European that converts to Judaism is a Jew but not a native of Palestine.

There were a "handful" of native inhabitants prior to 1850 that had not converted to the Roman religions, Christianity and Islam through the years. These few followers of Judaism were native inhabitants, they were Arab Jews, they spoke Arabic and were culturally Arabs.

Not Europeans from Spain, Portugal, Germany, Russia, Poland, North Africa etc.

Conversely, native inhabitants of Palestine that changed religion through the ages did not magically become foreigners, just as native americans that adopted Christianity (or Judaism), for example, did not lose their status as native inhabitants of the americas.
Yeah, except....Almost all Jews have always been Jews ancestrally. Europeans, Middle Eastern, etc. so your argument discrediting today's Jews as real Jews, is null and void. That is a another favorite antisemite / antizionist argument "today's Jews aren't really Jews, they're actually all converts to Judaism, so no ties to Israel". That's just about the most delusional moronic thing that I've heard. Funny part is they actually think that people believe this stupid crap.
No they have not....Most were other peoples who converted to Judiaism,really Roudy.
No not really. Actually you don't know jack. Jews for the most part did not convert, nor did they prosletize. Listen to what you're saying, you sound like a total delusional moron.
 
Considering Israel and the US CREATED HAMAS IN THE FIRST PLACE your Ignorant Comment,IS A JOKE.......Why are you people so Thick?

Ah, yes. Another way to recognize anti-zionism/anti-semitism -- this little thing called victim-blaming.
Yes, didn't you know? It's another antisemtic canard, that the Joooos create the antisemtism towards them, and Zionism is just one of those things that bring Antisemitism. If only Israel were destroyed then the Sub-humanoids would stop their Jew hate, and their desire to murder Jews.

Never mind that antisemtism and the slaughtering of Jews was in full bloom during many eras in the last 2500 years, non of which there was an Israel to blame it on.
 
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Considering Israel and the US CREATED HAMAS IN THE FIRST PLACE your Ignorant Comment,IS A JOKE.......Why are you people so Thick?

Ah, yes. Another way to recognize anti-zionism/anti-semitism -- this little thing called victim-blaming.
Yes, didn't you know? It's another antisemtic canard, that the Joooos create the antisemtism towards them, and Zionism is just one of those things that bring Antisemitism. If only Israel were destroyed then the Sub-humanoids would stop their Jew hate, and their desire to murder Jews.

Never mind that antisemtism and the slaughtering of Jews was in full bloom during many eras in the last 2500 years, non of which there was an Israel to blame it on.

I find this analysing of Jews, as if it were some kind of eugenic spread sheet about objects, not human beings, quite offensive. Conversions, racial issues, tribes, you name it. It goes on and on, this abnormal fascination. Monte what's his name being the worst perpetrator of this obsession.

I visited a museum in Prague once. Constructed by the Germans during WW2, a sort of preemptive programme to inform future generations about an extinct race and culture. Which they were already in the process of accomplishing. The extermination of Jews.
 
Another story of the British reneging on their promises.

*In exchange for their services during WWI, Britain, France, and Russia promised to give the Assyrians a safe and independent homeland in the area of northern Iraq known as `Assyrian Triangle.' This land never materialized and the tensions between the Assyrian population and Iraqi government culminated with a massacre in Simeil, Iraq in 1933. From this time on, the Assyrian diaspora began in an effort to find a safe haven and protect themselves from total elimination.*

Think I'll start a thread about it.
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel






As soon as you reduce your criticism to hate speech by using terms out of context then you become a racist. It took 20 years from the end of the war for people to realise that the words used by Germans from the 1930's were racist terms in their contextual meanings. Because we are more enlightened and educated we can see when YOU use such terms as Zionist, hasbara et al as RACIST HATE SPEECH because we understand your contextual meanings.
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

No they are not. They are Russian and Ukrainians.

Yikes, more lies that simply don't stand up to scrutiny

Only about 35% of all Israeli's today returned from all of Europe and the America's combined. Less than half of those returned from former Russian states

See
Statistical Abstract of Israel, 2009, CBS. "Table 2.24 – Jews, by country of origin and age"

So the majority then!

52.5% by YOUR calculations!







You really need to learn how to read a spread sheet as by my reckoning it is 25% or there abouts

In 2008 there were 1.6 million immigrant Jews compared to 3.9 million indigenous Jews. making it a 25%/75% split
 
An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It would if you did it in the same manner you racially attack the Jews, calling them zionuts, hasbara and Zionists to inflame and instill hatred.

The fact is Labour have been anti Jew for many years and are no longer able to cover it up since they lost control of the courts and legal system.

Idiot!

Try and address the topic Phoney or don't bother commenting!

The OP is not about the Labour party...





I did or didn't you see the reference in your link to the Labour party ?

What a failure you are
 
Anti-Israeli government is not the same as anti-Semitism. Two different things. It's like saying if you are against the US government, you hate all Americans.

They can try of course. Good luck with that. lol

But seriously; the Pals DO have rights but you must recall that most of the ME was owned by absent Landlords in Lebanon and Turkey(the Ottomans). The Pals have Jordan and any number of CLAIMS but they need to be settled by legal means. You have heard of the Levy Report??

Levy Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dispute it in the Courts!!

Greg

A report created by Zionist , come on now, not worth the paper its wrote on.

Then you won't have any problems challenging it in Court, will you?? lmao

Greg

They are above the courts and also the UN.







PROOF OF YOUR RACIST CLAIM

PROOF IT'S A RACIST CLAIM!






How can you prove a negative as you are quick to say.

The claim was that Israel is above the courts and the UN, yet the courts have looked at Israel's actions as have the UN and made recommendations. This proves that her claim is RACIST and INTOLERANT and designed to incite racist and religigious hatred
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

The fact that you direct it specifically at Jews, makes it anti Semitic.

Direct WHAT at Jews?

You Israel apologists need to wake up...

You are a 'clever'(?) zionut, show me where, in my posts, I have been "anti semitic" and I will immediately turn myself into the authorities!





Read your last sentence and you will see the racist remark as clear as day. A term you use frequently that under British law is seen as being racist.
 
Considering Israel and the US CREATED HAMAS IN THE FIRST PLACE your Ignorant Comment,IS A JOKE.......Why are you people so Thick?

Ah, yes. Another way to recognize anti-zionism/anti-semitism -- this little thing called victim-blaming.
Yes, didn't you know? It's another antisemtic canard, that the Joooos create the antisemtism towards them, and Zionism is just one of those things that bring Antisemitism. If only Israel were destroyed then the Sub-humanoids would stop their Jew hate, and their desire to murder Jews.

Never mind that antisemtism and the slaughtering of Jews was in full bloom during many eras in the last 2500 years, non of which there was an Israel to blame it on.

I find this analysing of Jews, as if it were some kind of eugenic spread sheet about objects, not human beings, quite offensive. Conversions, racial issues, tribes, you name it. It goes on and on, this abnormal fascination. Monte what's his name being the worst perpetrator of this obsession.

I visited a museum in Prague once. Constructed by the Germans during WW2, a sort of preemptive programme to inform future generations about an extinct race and culture. Which they were already in the process of accomplishing. The extermination of Jews.






Your first sentence shows that team Palestine is being racist as you find their words, terms and actions to be offensive . The only criteria used in British law to prove racism, ageism, anti Semitism, religious intolerance and all the other anti's on the statute books. Lets see if inhumanity will keep to his word and turn himself in ?
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

As soon as you reduce your criticism to hate speech by using terms out of context then you become a racist. It took 20 years from the end of the war for people to realise that the words used by Germans from the 1930's were racist terms in their contextual meanings. Because we are more enlightened and educated we can see when YOU use such terms as Zionist, hasbara et al as RACIST HATE SPEECH because we understand your contextual meanings.

Ah Phoney, no surprise that you THINK you know everything...

But, unfortunately, you don't...

You clearly delusional and every post you make simply shows that you really know nothing and are one of the most hate filled 'contributors' on this board...
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

The fact that you direct it specifically at Jews, makes it anti Semitic.

Direct WHAT at Jews?

You Israel apologists need to wake up...

You are a 'clever'(?) zionut, show me where, in my posts, I have been "anti semitic" and I will immediately turn myself into the authorities!

Read your last sentence and you will see the racist remark as clear as day. A term you use frequently that under British law is seen as being racist.

Oh Phoney, stop making shit up man...

Got a link ??
 
An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It would if you did it in the same manner you racially attack the Jews, calling them zionuts, hasbara and Zionists to inflame and instill hatred.

The fact is Labour have been anti Jew for many years and are no longer able to cover it up since they lost control of the courts and legal system.

Idiot!

Try and address the topic Phoney or don't bother commenting!

The OP is not about the Labour party...





I did or didn't you see the reference in your link to the Labour party ?

What a failure you are

As I said, the OP is NOT about the Labour Party dummy!
 
Of course,if the Jews have the right to reclaim the land they lost (after they had taken it from others some years earlier), then so do all the other previous owners of just about any country on Earth. The Native Americans are, by this logic, entitled to reclaim Canada, USA, Mexico, etc, treat the 'invaders' with utter contempt, block their access to essential services, and retaliate ferociously when any of them dare to resist.

They can try of course. Good luck with that. lol

But seriously; the Pals DO have rights but you must recall that most of the ME was owned by absent Landlords in Lebanon and Turkey(the Ottomans). The Pals have Jordan and any number of CLAIMS but they need to be settled by legal means. You have heard of the Levy Report??

The report concludes that Israel's presence in the West Bank is not an occupation,[3] and that the Israeli settlements are legal under international law.[4] It recommends the legalization of unauthorized Jewish settlement outposts by the state,[3] and provides proposals for new guidelines for settlement construction.[1]

In May 2014, it was reported that the Government was covertly carrying out the recommendations of the Report.[5]

Levy Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dispute it in the Courts!!

Greg
Agree, except not in Israel's kangaroo court.





EVIDENCE OF YOUR RACIST CLAIM ?
 
...Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

...You are a 'clever'(?) zionut, show me where, in my posts, I have been "anti semitic" and I will immediately turn myself into the authorities!

Criticizing the policies or actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, of itself. But every time you post the word "zionut" you are failing to criticize Israel's policies or actions. Instead you are creating a negative label which applies to all Zionists. And THAT, alone, my friend, is proof that you are something other than merely a critic of Israel.

From your posts, I gather that you reject the idea of a Jewish liberation movement, Jewish native rights and Jewish self-determination. Rejecting these things is not equivalent to "criticizing Israel".

Personally, I would love to see your posts have more substance than merely labelling us all zionuts -- especially as I am quite sure that you have, on occasion, said that you support the rights of both peoples and favour a two state solution.






Saying and meaning something are two different things, and inhumanity has often let slip that he does not think the Jews should be allowed to have a homeland and be settled.
 
15th post
Is anti-Zionism anti-semitism?

I think that is hard to answer because I do not think there is one clear definition of Zionism and the term seems to be used in many different ways and it seems to have many different meanings among Jews as well.

Haaretz has a good article on this:

Defining Zionism: The belief that Israel belongs to the entire Jewish people - Opinion

...If so, how would we define who is a Zionist, starting from the emergence of the Zionist movement as inspired by Theodor Herzl and his associates? Here is the definition: A Zionist is a person who desires or supports the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, which in the future will become the state of the Jewish people. This is based on what Herzl said: “In Basel I founded the Jewish state.”​

The key word in this definition is “state,” and its natural location is the Land of Israel because of the Jewish people’s historical link to it. Thus my grandfather’s grandfather, for example, who came to the Land of Israel from Thessaloniki in the mid-19th century, cannot be considered a Zionist. He came to settle in the Land of Israel, not to establish a state here. This is also the rule for the ancestors of Neturei Karta and other Hasidic groups that came to the Land of Israel as far back as the 17th and 18th centuries, and who remain loyal to it. Not only were these Jews not interested in establishing a Jewish state, but they include some who saw − and still see − the State of Israel as an abomination and a desecration of God’s name.

A Zionist, therefore, is a Jew who supported the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, and not necessarily one who actually settled in the land. Herzl himself and many Zionist leaders never settled in the land, yet you wouldn’t hesitate to call them Zionists. Even today, the members of Zionist federations worldwide are considered Zionists by us and by themselves, even though they don’t live in Israel.​

...Ever since the State of Israel was founded in 1948, the definition of “Zionist” has been revised, since we don’t need to establish another state. Therefore, its definition is as follows: A Zionist is a person who accepts the principle that the State of Israel doesn’t belong solely to its citizens, but to the entire Jewish people. The practical expression of this commitment is the Law of Return.

Interesting take on it, because it also points out that a lot of the issues and struggles Israel deals with really have nothing to do with Zionism but are issues facing many other countries as well.

Here is another question though - does Zionism affect territorial aquisition? Is the desire to settle the Occupied Territories with Jews an expression of Zionism as a desire to regain all of what was once the ancient Kingdom of Israel and is criticizing that anti-semitism? I would say no.

I always associated "Zionism" with "Manifest Destiny" - a concept that there was a right, given by God, to a territory.
This video has more sanity than most people can handle. The difference between homeland and state is explained quite simply @ 6:50










You must have a team of islamonazi immigrants trawling the internet for your video's that actually never say what you claim.

Does the person making the wild exaggerated claims have any academic qualifications on the subject, or are they just her own personal Points of View that she is trying to force onto others
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

The fact that you direct it specifically at Jews, makes it anti Semitic.

Direct WHAT at Jews?

You Israel apologists need to wake up...

You are a 'clever'(?) zionut, show me where, in my posts, I have been "anti semitic" and I will immediately turn myself into the authorities!

Read your last sentence and you will see the racist remark as clear as day. A term you use frequently that under British law is seen as being racist.

Oh Phoney, stop making shit up man...

Got a link ??







P to R: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service


"A racial group means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins." The definition is wide and victims may come within the definition under more than one of the references. Gypsies and some travellers, refugees or asylum seekers or others from less visible minorities would be included within this definition.

a) at the time of the offence (or shortly before or after), the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group, or

b) the offence is motivated wholly or partly by hostility towards members of a racial or religious group based on their membership (or presumed membership) of that group.



So you see you are a RACIST now hand yourself in
 
An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It would if you did it in the same manner you racially attack the Jews, calling them zionuts, hasbara and Zionists to inflame and instill hatred.

The fact is Labour have been anti Jew for many years and are no longer able to cover it up since they lost control of the courts and legal system.

Idiot!

Try and address the topic Phoney or don't bother commenting!

The OP is not about the Labour party...





I did or didn't you see the reference in your link to the Labour party ?

What a failure you are

As I said, the OP is NOT about the Labour Party dummy!






You brought it up DUMMY and I replied. So when will you keep on topic, or do I have to point out every time when you are derailing the thread ?
 
Of course it is, Zionism is the basic belief in native rights. That indigenous people shouldn't be forcefully removed from their native homeland.

Anti Zionist is clearly anti Israeli and anti Judaic, since todays Israeli's are the same native people that countless Arab Muslim pogroms attempted to eradicate from the Judaic homeland.

Your racism is once again glaringly apparent

Oh the stupid flag troll returns...

Of course it is IF you are a blind zionut...

Correct the indigenous people should not be forced to leave their land by Europeans, common sense, unfortunately something you are lacking!

Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-zionist, is NOT anti-semitic...

I'm not a racist, and racism has NOTHING to do with Jews you schuck...

Jeez, open your eyes, smell the coffee and see if you can try and hold a sensible debate...

Oh, and you might want to check out this link... Is a 'good'(?) video, the guy is slightly 'confused' but makes some good points... Go on, give it a go, try and educate yourself!

The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

As soon as you reduce your criticism to hate speech by using terms out of context then you become a racist. It took 20 years from the end of the war for people to realise that the words used by Germans from the 1930's were racist terms in their contextual meanings. Because we are more enlightened and educated we can see when YOU use such terms as Zionist, hasbara et al as RACIST HATE SPEECH because we understand your contextual meanings.

Ah Phoney, no surprise that you THINK you know everything...

But, unfortunately, you don't...

You clearly delusional and every post you make simply shows that you really know nothing and are one of the most hate filled 'contributors' on this board...






The cry of the beaten islamonazi buffoon when they are shown to be out of their depth. The first thing they do is reach for the red book of disinformation and apply one of the rules, normally one that calls the opponents mental state into question
 
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