'Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic'?

[Coyote]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

So where is the Roma Homeland?? False analogy.

Greg

Very false.

The Jews still maintained a population there, had a long history there, and wanted to establish a an autonomous homeland where their ancestral population still lived is no different thant the Kurds, Basques, Chechnyans, Palestinians, or other independence movements.

Trying to make it different makes one want to ask - why? Why do some native groups have a right to establish a homeland but others not?

Even if I were to agree that an Inuit or Russian magically becomes a native inhabitant of Palestine by converting to Judaism, it has nothing to do with the right to establish a homeland, it has to do with the right to expropriate the people inhabiting an area to establish a homeland.

Is an Inuit magically become not-an-Inuit if he moves elsewhere? Are his children not Inuit?

The Roma (gypsies) came from what is now Pakistan, what was once northwestern India. Would it be considered rational today if a world power say, the U.S. or China, issued a declaration that mimicked the Balfour Declaration which suggested that a National Home for the Roma be established in Pakistan? Now that the native people there have almost all converted to Islam? It would be absurd to do such a thing. Yet some people believe that the Balfour Declaration was somehow justifiable.

Are there still Roma people in Pakistan?

Of course, the Dalits.

"European Roma descended from Indian 'untouchables', genetic study shows

Roma gypsies in Britain and Europe are descended from "dalits" or low caste "untouchables" who migrated from the Indian sub-continent 1,400 years ago, a genetic study has suggested....Later, they left to flee the fall of Hindu kingdoms in what is today Pakistan, with many setting off from near Gilgit."

European Roma descended from Indian 'untouchables', genetic study shows

Hasn't the culture completely diverged though from that of the Hindu's?

 

[gtopa1]

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

Other ways to recognize anti-Zionism/anti-semitism:

Lies and exaggerations, such as "never offered full sovereignty"
Assumptions of intent which are not in evidence
Changes in meanings of words
Justifications for violence, especially for pointless violence

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

 

[Coyote]

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

You've just contradicted your self by talking about distrust on both sides.

When you've implied that the Palestinians think they know the Israalis' nefarious intentions.

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

Other ways to recognize anti-Zionism/anti-semitism:

Lies and exaggerations, such as "never offered full sovereignty"
Assumptions of intent which are not in evidence
Changes in meanings of words
Justifications for violence, especially for pointless violence

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

 

[gtopa1]

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

You've just contradicted your self by talking about distrust on both sides.

When you've implied that the Palestinians think they know the Israalis' nefarious intentions.

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

Other ways to recognize anti-Zionism/anti-semitism:

Lies and exaggerations, such as "never offered full sovereignty"
Assumptions of intent which are not in evidence
Changes in meanings of words
Justifications for violence, especially for pointless violence

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

 

[Coyote]

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

You've just contradicted your self by talking about distrust on both sides.

When you've implied that the Palestinians think they know the Israalis' nefarious intentions.

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

 

[P F Tinmore]

An Inuit who is displaced from northern Canada remains Inuit no matter where she happens to be living. Her children remain Inuit. And her children's children.

But you are missing the larger point here. It doesn't matter what argument you use to deny the Jewish people AS a people -- one whose ancestors originated on the territory in question. ANY argument which prevents the Jewish people from having the same rights as other peoples is fundamentally an anti-semitic argument.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

But - this is a big but - it is not an exclusive Jewish state, and in point of fact it is more diverse than many of it's neighbors. Granted there are inequities and injustices but it's not an exclusive Jewish state and it's foundational documents encorporate diversity.

It won't be an exclusive Jewish state until Israel kicks out the remaining Palestinians.

There are polls that show that a significant portion of Israeli's want to expel all Arabs - but that would be extremely difficult and a violation of human rights. There are also Druze, Samaritan and Christian residents. I think each side believes the worst of each other - and unfortunately those fears get propogated. Most Palestinians don't want to "drive Jews to the sea" and most Jews don't want to "expel all the Arabs".

Violating human rights has never been an issue for Israel. They don't care about the law or rights.

 

[gtopa1]

The question was "expelled OR TRANSFERRED".......as I expected. "Transferred" is one of those dodgy terms that "soften" the question. I would like to see other polls before I make further comment though.

Among Israeli Arabs and Jews, limited optimism about a two-state solution

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

You've just contradicted your self by talking about distrust on both sides.

When you've implied that the Palestinians think they know the Israalis' nefarious intentions.

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Thank you. That "transferred" is a pesky term. What does it mean in context?? I feel sure that with the recent murders by random Arabs of their neighbours that mistrust is increased and that, after all, is why the killings are happening. "Transferred" may well just mean "away from being able to kill us". I mistrust the question...seriously.

Greg

 

[Lipush]

An Inuit who is displaced from northern Canada remains Inuit no matter where she happens to be living. Her children remain Inuit. And her children's children.

But you are missing the larger point here. It doesn't matter what argument you use to deny the Jewish people AS a people -- one whose ancestors originated on the territory in question. ANY argument which prevents the Jewish people from having the same rights as other peoples is fundamentally an anti-semitic argument.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

But - this is a big but - it is not an exclusive Jewish state, and in point of fact it is more diverse than many of it's neighbors. Granted there are inequities and injustices but it's not an exclusive Jewish state and it's foundational documents encorporate diversity.

It won't be an exclusive Jewish state until Israel kicks out the remaining Palestinians.

There are polls that show that a significant portion of Israeli's want to expel all Arabs - but that would be extremely difficult and a violation of human rights. There are also Druze, Samaritan and Christian residents. I think each side believes the worst of each other - and unfortunately those fears get propogated. Most Palestinians don't want to "drive Jews to the sea" and most Jews don't want to "expel all the Arabs".

If you make a poll about how many Arabs would want the Jews out, you'll get nearly 100%. But that's besides the point. Israel is not going to expel all Arabs, that we know.

We have no problem with the Christians, and we consider the Druze out blood brothers.

 

[gtopa1]

An Inuit who is displaced from northern Canada remains Inuit no matter where she happens to be living. Her children remain Inuit. And her children's children.

But you are missing the larger point here. It doesn't matter what argument you use to deny the Jewish people AS a people -- one whose ancestors originated on the territory in question. ANY argument which prevents the Jewish people from having the same rights as other peoples is fundamentally an anti-semitic argument.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

But - this is a big but - it is not an exclusive Jewish state, and in point of fact it is more diverse than many of it's neighbors. Granted there are inequities and injustices but it's not an exclusive Jewish state and it's foundational documents encorporate diversity.

It won't be an exclusive Jewish state until Israel kicks out the remaining Palestinians.

There are polls that show that a significant portion of Israeli's want to expel all Arabs - but that would be extremely difficult and a violation of human rights. There are also Druze, Samaritan and Christian residents. I think each side believes the worst of each other - and unfortunately those fears get propogated. Most Palestinians don't want to "drive Jews to the sea" and most Jews don't want to "expel all the Arabs".

If you make a poll about how many Arabs would want the Jews out, you'll get nearly 100%. But that's besides the point. Israel is not going to expel all Arabs, that we know.

We have no problem with the Christians, and we consider the Druze out blood brothers.

That term "transferred"?? What do you make of it and has it been topical in Israel?

Greg

 

[Lipush]

You've just contradicted your self by talking about distrust on both sides.

When you've implied that the Palestinians think they know the Israalis' nefarious intentions.

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

The Israelis are well aware of the intent from Hamas..

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

That's not entirely accurate.

The term "Hiloni" is referred to a Jewish Israeli with no connection to the Jewish religion, meaning, leading no religious lifestyle whatsoever. But we know it's not true. If you look at it more correctly, you'll find that most Jews in Israel have connection to religion. The Holiday of Passover is celebrated in almost every Jewish house. Even the most secular people will fast on Yom Kippur, because they're living in an environment which teaches the importance of respecting this holy day. The main holidays are kept in Israel.

But many Jews don't keep the Shabbat or pray each day, or fast each fasting-holiday, which categorizes them as "Secular". And again, that's far from accurate. I'd classify most Jews in Israel as traditional. Those without any connection AT ALL to their Jewish heritage, are very few.

 

[Lipush]

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

But - this is a big but - it is not an exclusive Jewish state, and in point of fact it is more diverse than many of it's neighbors. Granted there are inequities and injustices but it's not an exclusive Jewish state and it's foundational documents encorporate diversity.

It won't be an exclusive Jewish state until Israel kicks out the remaining Palestinians.

There are polls that show that a significant portion of Israeli's want to expel all Arabs - but that would be extremely difficult and a violation of human rights. There are also Druze, Samaritan and Christian residents. I think each side believes the worst of each other - and unfortunately those fears get propogated. Most Palestinians don't want to "drive Jews to the sea" and most Jews don't want to "expel all the Arabs".

If you make a poll about how many Arabs would want the Jews out, you'll get nearly 100%. But that's besides the point. Israel is not going to expel all Arabs, that we know.

We have no problem with the Christians, and we consider the Druze out blood brothers.

That term "transferred"?? What do you make of it and has it been topical in Israel?

Greg

It's not discussed seriously, no. Most people who use the term do it on very specific times and due to very specific agendas.

No one will transfer anyone in this generation.

 

[Lipush]

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Thank you. That "transferred" is a pesky term. What does it mean in context?? I feel sure that with the recent murders by random Arabs of their neighbours that mistrust is increased and that, after all, is why the killings are happening. "Transferred" may well just mean "away from being able to kill us". I mistrust the question...seriously.

Greg

"Transfer" doesn't mean people are expelled or moved from their houses.

 

[Mindful]

And that the Israeli's think they know the Palestinians nafarious intentions.

How am I contradicting myself?

What is accurate? Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

And the Palestinians firmly believe Israel intends to expel them in entirety. What's your point?

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

That's not entirely accurate.

The term "Hiloni" is referred to a Jewish Israeli with no connection to the Jewish religion, meaning, leading no religious lifestyle whatsoever. But we know it's not true. If you look at it more correctly, you'll find that most Jews in Israel have connection to religion. The Holiday of Passover is celebrated in almost every Jewish house. Even the most secular people will fast on Yom Kippur, because they're living in an environment which teaches the importance of respecting this holy day. The main holidays are kept in Israel.

But many Jews don't keep the Shabbat or pray each day, or fast each fasting-holiday, which categorizes them as "Secular". And again, that's far from accurate. I'd classify most Jews in Israel as traditional. Those without any connection AT ALL to their Jewish heritage, are very few.

That's what I would have said, but I gave it up as a bad job. The close connection and the traditions would not be understood anyway.

 

[Lipush]

You've misunderstand what I was getting at.

Then enlighten me

From Israel or Gaza and the West Bank??

Greg

Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs
At the same time, public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled.

I think the question sounds like it may be dodgy. I'll have a look.

Greg

Here's the actual survey source - it's actually a very interesting survey overall: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

That's not entirely accurate.

The term "Hiloni" is referred to a Jewish Israeli with no connection to the Jewish religion, meaning, leading no religious lifestyle whatsoever. But we know it's not true. If you look at it more correctly, you'll find that most Jews in Israel have connection to religion. The Holiday of Passover is celebrated in almost every Jewish house. Even the most secular people will fast on Yom Kippur, because they're living in an environment which teaches the importance of respecting this holy day. The main holidays are kept in Israel.

But many Jews don't keep the Shabbat or pray each day, or fast each fasting-holiday, which categorizes them as "Secular". And again, that's far from accurate. I'd classify most Jews in Israel as traditional. Those without any connection AT ALL to their Jewish heritage, are very few.

That's what I would have said, but I gave it up as a bad job. The close connection and the traditions would not be understood anyway.

Plus, when looking into secular families, you'll descover that one, two generations back they were actually religious.

I'm considered secular by almost all definitions, and My grandfather was a Rabbi in Budapest, his brother was a Hazzan.

Many secular families of today, were actually rooted in ultra-orthodox faith

 

[Shusha]

The question was "expelled OR TRANSFERRED".......as I expected. "Transferred" is one of those dodgy terms that "soften" the question. I would like to see other polls before I make further comment though.

Among Israeli Arabs and Jews, limited optimism about a two-state solution

Greg

I think it is also important to think about the context of that question. It came up as "proof" of Israel's nefarious intentions. Proof that "all along" Israel and the Jewish people have intended an exclusively Jewish State. Yet the evidence over the past 100 years of conflict has demonstrated the opposite -- the Jewish people and the State of Israel have consistently expressed the desire for a democratic and multi-cultural State. And Israel is indeed those things in action.

However, now, only after a hundred years of conflict with no progress and where Jews are being stabbed in the streets by citizens of Israel (!) do a good number of Israelis feel that perhaps it is not possible to live in a mixed community with Arabs.

One of the other questions in the poll was: Do you think a Jewish State is necessary for the long term survival of the Jewish people? And the answer is an overwhelming YES! 91% (BTW, that link will take you to a list of the actual survey questions).
So WHY do the Jewish people want to expel the Arabs? Is it because they have a "nefarious plan" to ethnically cleanse the territory and have always had? Or is it because the Jewish people believe (with cause, imo) that our very survival depends on it?

See? This is a really good example of examining actual intent rather than assigning a negative intent.

 

[Lipush]

The question was "expelled OR TRANSFERRED".......as I expected. "Transferred" is one of those dodgy terms that "soften" the question. I would like to see other polls before I make further comment though.

Among Israeli Arabs and Jews, limited optimism about a two-state solution

Greg

I think it is also important to think about the context of that question. It came up as "proof" of Israel's nefarious intentions. Proof that "all along" Israel and the Jewish people have intended an exclusively Jewish State. Yet the evidence over the past 100 years of conflict has demonstrated the opposite -- the Jewish people and the State of Israel have consistently expressed the desire for a democratic and multi-cultural State. And Israel is indeed those things in action.

However, now, only after a hundred years of conflict with no progress and where Jews are being stabbed in the streets by citizens of Israel (!) do a good number of Israelis feel that perhaps it is not possible to live in a mixed community with Arabs.

One of the other questions in the poll was: Do you think a Jewish State is necessary for the long term survival of the Jewish people? And the answer is an overwhelming YES! 91% (BTW, that link will take you to a list of the actual survey questions).
So WHY do the Jewish people want to expel the Arabs? Is it because they have a "nefarious plan" to ethnically cleanse the territory and have always had? Or is it because the Jewish people believe (with cause, imo) that our very survival depends on it?

See? This is a really good example of examining actual intent rather than assigning a negative intent.

That actually makes a lotta sense. I'm embarrassed to admit that even I didn't think of it that way.

 

[Shusha]

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

Other ways to recognize anti-Zionism/anti-semitism:

Lies and exaggerations, such as "never offered full sovereignty"
Assumptions of intent which are not in evidence
Changes in meanings of words
Justifications for violence, especially for pointless violence

I disagree. Lies and exaggerations are part and parcel of the arguments in both sides of the conflict - that isn't anti-semitism.

Assumption of intent - same thing, in any conflict and this one is no different. There is deep distrust of the other's intent on BOTH sides here.

Changes in meanings of words...not sure, can you give some examples?

Justifications for violence - again, that is not uncommon in conflicts, I don't see that as "anti-semitic" unless the person is holding double standards.

Well, there are lies and exaggerations and there are lies and exaggerations. I agree that both sides do tend to exaggerate somewhat. I entirely disagree that the pro-Israel sides tells outright lies to the extent that the anti-Israel side does, thinking back to the threads which falsely accuse Israel of keeping children in cages comes to mind immediately. There are others.

While I agree that there is a deep distrust on both sides -- it is relatively easy to find evidence for the reasons behind the distrust for the one side rather than the other. For example -- there is absolutely no evidence that Israel intends to prevent Muslims from worship on the Temple Mount and yet that is a common belief of most Muslims, especially Palestinian Muslims.

My favourite change in the meaning of words is "slow genocide" -- you know, a "genocide" where the population is actually increasing. Also "open air prison", Bantustan, apartheid, indigenous. One of the others is the change in the legal meaning of "occupation".

 

[Shusha]

An Inuit who is displaced from northern Canada remains Inuit no matter where she happens to be living. Her children remain Inuit. And her children's children.

But you are missing the larger point here. It doesn't matter what argument you use to deny the Jewish people AS a people -- one whose ancestors originated on the territory in question. ANY argument which prevents the Jewish people from having the same rights as other peoples is fundamentally an anti-semitic argument.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

No one is arguing that the Jewish people were either the first or the only. The Jewish people are the oldest surviving occupants of that territory. And of course there is a historic precedence -- it is the RECONSTITUTION of the Jewish self-determination.

Again, ANY argument which prevents the Jewish people from having the same rights as other peoples is fundamentally an anti-semitic argument.

 

[Shusha]

Violating human rights has never been an issue for Israel. They don't care about the law or rights.

See here is another great example of anti-zionism which is really anti-semitism and most certainly not a criticism of Israel.

There is a difference between saying something as broad and sweeping as this and criticising specific actions which Israel does.

Saying that Israel should not commit air strikes in Gaza is a legitimate criticism. Saying that Israel should not demolish illegally built homes is a legitimate criticism. Saying that Israel doesn't care about the law or human rights is not.