Another person claiming animals are the same as people

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

I would disagree, not with your data, but with some underlying assumptions. We aren't biologically designed to be efficient herbivore's. We are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores. One look at our guts, jaws and teeth pretty much prove that. The key to success is "well planned" which requires knowledge and access to affordable quality substitutes for meat protein. This is ESPECIALLY important for children.

IMO - we often eat too much meat as a culture and could do with less. But the flip side of this is what is happening to peoples who evolved to subsist on a high meat diet, such as would be found in hunter/gatherer societies like the Innuit. Transforming to a primarily carbohydrate based diet is creating all sorts of health problems.

It's not a one size fits all sort of thing. I would rather see us transform how we view our domestic animals. We entered into a compact with them when they chose to allow themselves to be domesticated - we need to uphold our side of that bargain.
I couldn't disagree with that more. First of all, I am a believer, so I believe it was GOD who designed us, not evolution.

And there is no question that from a biblical perspective, we were designed and created to be herbivores, to eat a plant-based diet, that is clear in Genesis 1:29. In the beginning, ALL of creation were herbivores, as you can see in Genesis 1:29-30.

As for the other things you said, not so. Watch this video:

 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal.

Tastes good and good for you!!!
Ooh, yeah, rotting flesh from a sick, abused animal is really "yummy." Thanks, I'lll pass.





 

Toddsterpatriot

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal.

Tastes good and good for you!!!
Ooh, yeah, rotting flesh from a sick, abused animal is really "yummy." Thanks, I'lll pass.





I make it a point not to eat the rotting flesk.
 

westwall

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal.

Tastes good and good for you!!!
Ooh, yeah, rotting flesh from a sick, abused animal is really "yummy." Thanks, I'lll pass.










Ahhhhh, how cute. Vegan propaganda. You should see how nasty they are out in the real world.
 

Aurora Woman

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Healthy ecosystems require both those who eat others, those who are eaten, and those who clean up the left overs.

Given that though, as good stewards, we need to treat the animals in our care with dignity, compassion and respect, giving them the best lives we can until it is time to go to that great microwave in the sky.

Using them for scientific research? Very very sparingly and carefully And some species never. We have a lot of other alternatives now.
Here, here. So beautifully said. Thank you.
 

esalla

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal.

Tastes good and good for you!!!
Ooh, yeah, rotting flesh from a sick, abused animal is really "yummy." Thanks, I'lll pass.










Ahhhhh, how cute. Vegan propaganda. You should see how nasty they are out in the real world.
Are you claiming those videos are fake? You can see similar videos from veterinarians or farmers, so I'm sorry but they are real. And my post was to the other guy, and we were both kinda joking, so.... lighten up.
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
 

esalla

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
Should all wolves bears and lions be trained to eat leaves?

I was fully serious, you are clueless
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
Should all wolves bears and lions be trained to eat leaves?

I was fully serious, you are clueless

You really are equating a vegetable with a thinking, feeling animal that has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child? Seriously?

You really see no difference between cutting into a head of lettuce and cutting into a sentient animal who is screaming for his life?

Come on, I thought you were smarter than that, I hope I didn't give you too much credit.
 

buttercup

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This animal is not the same as a vegetable. To claim otherwise is either blatantly dishonest, or incredibly stupid.

 

Toddsterpatriot

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
I've seen carrots that were smarter than your average Democrat.
 

esalla

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
Should all wolves bears and lions be trained to eat leaves?

I was fully serious, you are clueless

You really are equating a vegetable with a thinking, feeling animal that has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child? Seriously?

You really see no difference between cutting into a head of lettuce and cutting into a sentient animal who is screaming for his life?

Come on, I thought you were smarter than that, I hope I didn't give you too much credit.
Do impalas think and feel when a lion ambushes them? Do you want all lions killed because they kill?

Poor slob, why do you hate lions, what did they ever do to you?
 

Coyote

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

I would disagree, not with your data, but with some underlying assumptions. We aren't biologically designed to be efficient herbivore's. We are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores. One look at our guts, jaws and teeth pretty much prove that. The key to success is "well planned" which requires knowledge and access to affordable quality substitutes for meat protein. This is ESPECIALLY important for children.

IMO - we often eat too much meat as a culture and could do with less. But the flip side of this is what is happening to peoples who evolved to subsist on a high meat diet, such as would be found in hunter/gatherer societies like the Innuit. Transforming to a primarily carbohydrate based diet is creating all sorts of health problems.

It's not a one size fits all sort of thing. I would rather see us transform how we view our domestic animals. We entered into a compact with them when they chose to allow themselves to be domesticated - we need to uphold our side of that bargain.
I couldn't disagree with that more. First of all, I am a believer, so I believe it was GOD who designed us, not evolution.

And there is no question that from a biblical perspective, we were designed and created to be herbivores, to eat a plant-based diet, that is clear in Genesis 1:29. In the beginning, ALL of creation were herbivores, as you can see in Genesis 1:29-30.

As for the other things you said, not so. Watch this video:

I disagree, not with being a believer - I'm not opposed to that, whether it's evolution, God, or God's hand using evolution as a tool, I'm fine with it.

The non-primate animal closest to us in terms of digestive system is the pig, an omnivore. Other apes are also omnivorous - sometimes opportunistically, sometimes in a more coordinated manner of hunting. Our gut lacks the specialization needed to truly make use of many plants. For example, look at iron. Iron is available in two types - heme and non-heme. Plants are entirely non-heme, animal flesh is a mixture of both. The highest sources of iron are lean meats and shellfish.


Heme iron has higher bioavailability than nonheme iron, and other dietary components have less effect on the bioavailability of heme than nonheme iron [3,4]. The bioavailability of iron is approximately 14% to 18% from mixed diets that include substantial amounts of meat, seafood, and vitamin C (ascorbic acid, which enhances the bioavailability of nonheme iron) and 5% to 12% from vegetarian diets [2,4]. In addition to ascorbic acid, meat, poultry, and seafood can enhance nonheme iron absorption, whereas phytate (present in grains and beans) and certain polyphenols in some non-animal foods (such as cereals and legumes) have the opposite effect [4]. Unlike other inhibitors of iron absorption, calcium might reduce the bioavailability of both nonheme and heme iron. However, the effects of enhancers and inhibitors of iron absorption are attenuated by a typical mixed western diet, so they have little effect on most people’s iron status.

Herbivores are far more efficient at processing and breaking down plant material and extracting and recycling iron, usually through a process of fermentation (either rumen, like cows, or hind-gut, such as horses). We humans have no such capacity.

And that doesn't even begin to address the issue of teeth and jaws....humans aren't naturally herbivores, we become herbivores by choice.
 
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RetiredGySgt

RetiredGySgt

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

I would disagree, not with your data, but with some underlying assumptions. We aren't biologically designed to be efficient herbivore's. We are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores. One look at our guts, jaws and teeth pretty much prove that. The key to success is "well planned" which requires knowledge and access to affordable quality substitutes for meat protein. This is ESPECIALLY important for children.

IMO - we often eat too much meat as a culture and could do with less. But the flip side of this is what is happening to peoples who evolved to subsist on a high meat diet, such as would be found in hunter/gatherer societies like the Innuit. Transforming to a primarily carbohydrate based diet is creating all sorts of health problems.

It's not a one size fits all sort of thing. I would rather see us transform how we view our domestic animals. We entered into a compact with them when they chose to allow themselves to be domesticated - we need to uphold our side of that bargain.
I couldn't disagree with that more. First of all, I am a believer, so I believe it was GOD who designed us, not evolution.

And there is no question that from a biblical perspective, we were designed and created to be herbivores, to eat a plant-based diet, that is clear in Genesis 1:29. In the beginning, ALL of creation were herbivores, as you can see in Genesis 1:29-30.

As for the other things you said, not so. Watch this video:

Wrong God specifically said we had dominion over all other animals.
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
Should all wolves bears and lions be trained to eat leaves?

I was fully serious, you are clueless

You really are equating a vegetable with a thinking, feeling animal that has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child? Seriously?

You really see no difference between cutting into a head of lettuce and cutting into a sentient animal who is screaming for his life?

Come on, I thought you were smarter than that, I hope I didn't give you too much credit.
Do impalas think and feel when a lion ambushes them? Do you want all lions killed because they kill?

Poor slob, why do you hate lions, what did they ever do to you?
We went over this earlier in the thread. I'll paraphrase what I said earlier.

Yes, some eat other animals but that doesn't mean humans should. Some animals also eat their own caca and rape each other, does that means humans should do those things too? Animals are not our moral compass. But if you're going to model the behavior of animals, why be a predator? There are tons of peaceful herbivorous animals, why not use them as your role model?

We have a greater ability to reason, to make wise choices, to have compassionate, etc. So because we are "above" the animals in that sense, that is all the more reason for us to NOT act like barbaric, bloodthirsty predators.

I know you won't agree with this, because I'm pretty sure you're not a Christian? (correct me if I'm wrong) but the reason why some animals eat each other and there is so much violence in this world is because this is a fallen world, it is nothing like the way it was originally, and it's nothing like the way God intended it to be. The way God intended it to be is clear in the pre-fall world and in the new earth and heaven. Peace and harmony. No cruelty, exploitation, abuse and needless killing.
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

I would disagree, not with your data, but with some underlying assumptions. We aren't biologically designed to be efficient herbivore's. We are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores. One look at our guts, jaws and teeth pretty much prove that. The key to success is "well planned" which requires knowledge and access to affordable quality substitutes for meat protein. This is ESPECIALLY important for children.

IMO - we often eat too much meat as a culture and could do with less. But the flip side of this is what is happening to peoples who evolved to subsist on a high meat diet, such as would be found in hunter/gatherer societies like the Innuit. Transforming to a primarily carbohydrate based diet is creating all sorts of health problems.

It's not a one size fits all sort of thing. I would rather see us transform how we view our domestic animals. We entered into a compact with them when they chose to allow themselves to be domesticated - we need to uphold our side of that bargain.
I couldn't disagree with that more. First of all, I am a believer, so I believe it was GOD who designed us, not evolution.

And there is no question that from a biblical perspective, we were designed and created to be herbivores, to eat a plant-based diet, that is clear in Genesis 1:29. In the beginning, ALL of creation were herbivores, as you can see in Genesis 1:29-30.

As for the other things you said, not so. Watch this video:

Wrong God specifically said we had dominion over all other animals.
Dominion is not synonymous with "the ability to eat animals." That is easy to prove because when God gave us dominion, the very next verse states our diet which was 100% PLANT-BASED.

I did a blog post on this topic, of dominion. Please read it, when you have a minute. I go into this in more depth, but it's a fairly quick and easy read.

 
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RetiredGySgt

RetiredGySgt

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth
Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.
Should all wolves bears and lions be trained to eat leaves?

I was fully serious, you are clueless

You really are equating a vegetable with a thinking, feeling animal that has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child? Seriously?

You really see no difference between cutting into a head of lettuce and cutting into a sentient animal who is screaming for his life?

Come on, I thought you were smarter than that, I hope I didn't give you too much credit.
Do impalas think and feel when a lion ambushes them? Do you want all lions killed because they kill?

Poor slob, why do you hate lions, what did they ever do to you?
We went over this earlier in the thread. I'll paraphrase what I said earlier.

Yes, some eat other animals but that doesn't mean humans should. Some animals also eat their own caca and rape each other, does that means humans should do those things too? Animals are not our moral compass. But if you're going to model the behavior of animals, why be a predator? There are tons of peaceful herbivorous animals, why not use them as your role model?

We have a greater ability to reason, to make wise choices, to have compassionate, etc. So because we are "above" the animals in that sense, that is all the more reason for us to NOT act like barbaric, bloodthirsty predators.

I know you won't agree with this, because I'm pretty sure you're not a Christian? (correct me if I'm wrong) but the reason why some animals eat each other and there is so much violence in this world is because this is a fallen world, it is nothing like the way it was originally, and it's nothing like the way God intended it to be. The way God intended it to be is clear in the pre-fall world and in the new earth and heaven. Peace and harmony. No cruelty, exploitation, abuse and needless killing.
LOL and YET god made every animal UNDER man. And I am sorry but we were never intended to be herbivores, Not God and NOT science support that claim, that is delusional comments from a person trying to force their views on others. Meat eaters do not try and force vegans to eat meat why is it vegans try to force meat eaters to do as they want again?
 

harmonica

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animals are better than some people--like the Chicago looters
 

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