American education falls to below average globally

[hunarcy]

We should reduce college costs or make it free. General public becomes more intelligent. America becomes competitive and in turn you wont have to fly in talent from countries that have free college.

Now, that said the only objection I hear about reducing college costs or making it outright free is this: "Shut up!"

So theres that...

Increasing the level of subsidy available to four-year degree-granting institutions would be a wildly regressive step. The student population at such institutions is disproportionately affluent, and was disproportionately affluent back when college tuition was cheaper. ...

The second big problem, however, is that if the level of subsidy were increased enough to eliminate tuition, the faculty and administrators of public universities would still thirst for more money.

The third and most fundamental problem is simply that it's hardly as if the university sector is the only branch of education that might plausibly want more money.

 

[zeke]

.

Yeah, but at least our kids have REALLY HIGH SELF ESTEEM! And we're REALLY CAREFUL not to HURT THEIR FEELINGS! That's what matters!

Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable



.

This generation was raised to value self-esteem above discipline and achievement. Consequently, students are feeling better than ever about themselves while performing worse. We have become a nation of narcissists.

No wonder these students find school a place to cut loose a little, drink, use drugs and turn the school into a free brothel. They are gifted and already know everything.

Yep.

And worse, they'll enter the real world expecting awards just for showing up, rewards for doing nothing, respect without earning it. I feel bad for them, they're in for a rude awakening when they leave school. Many of them are experiencing it now.

Hate to see it.

.

Hey Mac, it sounds like you are speaking from personal experience with your own kids?
Cause mine are not like what you described at all. And their friends are not like that.
What's up with that? How could that be?

Are you sure about what you think? Or is that just another opinion?

 

[candycorn]

Well, your avatar holds a key to this dilemma. Too much emphasis on sports in high school as well as college. Not enough emphasis on science.

The best technology-based university in the world right now is Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. And honey, they DON'T have a big, bloated cash machine called a football team.

You do realize that both Stanford & Harvard, just for starters, have sports... right?

What you said is insanely goofy.

Uh-huh. And....what made the national news this weekend? Auburn's win over Alabama.

Thanks for trying to play, anyway.

Oh yeah, ....Hook 'em, Horns. University of Texas alone has more students than Harvard or Stanford combined. Big football college.

And look at Penn State....They even turned a blind eye to boys getting raped in the locker room because THEIR sports program was more important.

Sadly, you're just reporting the tip of the proverbial ice berg. But it isn't just colleges that are being affected. Detroit is going through, apparently, with building a stadium for it's hockey team--the same Detroit that is going to give it's pensioners $0.16 on the dollar according to one report I heard.

Currently the Republican governor and his hand-picked emergency manager for Detroit as well as the lineage of Democratic mayors of the city are just fine with it too.

As I said, this should be an apolitical issue.

 

[candycorn]

I guess the answer is what the left always says the answer is for all our problems.
We just don't spend enough...because.
We just don't tax people nearly enough.

We should reduce college costs or make it free. General public becomes more intelligent. America becomes competitive and in turn you wont have to fly in talent from countries that have free college.

Now, that said the only objection I hear about reducing college costs or making it outright free is this: "Shut up!"

So theres that...

A few months back I parroted a suggestion I heard about funding college the same way we fund social security. You get 60 hours paid for by Uncle Sam. With that 60 hours you choose whatever you want to take; 4 year college pre-requisites, nuclear chemistry, cosmotology, nursing, welding, dodgeball, etc... Then when you start working, a very small percentage of your paycheck is deducted to cover your costs plus a small bit of interest to cover rising costs for the next generation.

So if you're taking 60 Semester Hours at $300 per hour, that is $18,000 fronted by Uncle Sam. So when you start your work-career, you will work for, lets say, 30 years, You will pay $600 per year. Or, with Interest, lets say you're paying back $25,000. You're paying $833 per year or $16 per week. You can pay it off sooner if you want.

You can also take fewer than 60 hours to get just a certificate; take some now, some later; the government could incentivize the STEM fields by forgiving loans for scholars in those areas etc...

When I brought it up, some dipshit squawked about the government taking over education.

 

[editec]

How many folks here who are SO concerned have ever been to your local school board meetings?

I guessing, based on how little most of you seem to know about how education is funded and controlled, the answer is NONE.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This generation was raised to value self-esteem above discipline and achievement. Consequently, students are feeling better than ever about themselves while performing worse. We have become a nation of narcissists.

No wonder these students find school a place to cut loose a little, drink, use drugs and turn the school into a free brothel. They are gifted and already know everything.

Yep.

And worse, they'll enter the real world expecting awards just for showing up, rewards for doing nothing, respect without earning it. I feel bad for them, they're in for a rude awakening when they leave school. Many of them are experiencing it now.

Hate to see it.

.

Hey Mac, it sounds like you are speaking from personal experience with your own kids?
Cause mine are not like what you described at all. And their friends are not like that.
What's up with that? How could that be?

Are you sure about what you think? Or is that just another opinion?

Mine neither. They have had life a little easier than I did.....and that puts a big smile on my face. It is how it should be. But they are very much aware of how difficult things could be if they don't take care of business.

Even my sweet baby girl expects no freebies....no meaningless accolades. She has earned every one of them.

I am pretty sure Mac is referring to someone else's kids. His are probably perfect.

 

[NoNukes]

The answer to this is for the US to emulate what the countries with the best education systems are doing.

Many Americans, especially those on the right, do not want to hear what is going on in other countries.

 

[Samson]

It all comes down to our ass backwards funding and control of our educational system

Those countries that do better than us all have national control over the educational system. Only the US puts the power with the local school board....with widely varying results

"Those Countries" also have national control over their borders.

 

[NoNukes]

.

Yeah, but at least our kids have REALLY HIGH SELF ESTEEM! And we're REALLY CAREFUL not to HURT THEIR FEELINGS! That's what matters!

Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable



.

My kids went to a primary school that emphsized self confidence. They are much more confident than many of their peers, and they do very well in academics because of their confidence. Their confidence really helps them to improve in the subjects that they are weaker in. I have taught primary school, secondary school and have lectured on the university level, and I can tell you that self confidence is very important in education.

 

[candycorn]

How many folks here who are SO concerned have ever been to your local school board meetings?

I guessing, based on how little most of you seem to know about how education is funded and controlled, the answer is NONE.

Very true...we get the government we deserve. One of the responses I got on this thread was that the school board members are "placed" in their positions... I suppose that may be the case somewhere but we had run-offs yesterday for school board positions in some districts around here... they are being "placed" or "replaced" by those who bother to show up to vote.

 

[editec]

SEriously some of the dodos posting here seem to think that Obama is running education in their towns.

Why would anyone CARE what people this ignorant think about education?

It's clear these folks are not educated, do not respect education, and have personal hard-ons about all things educational.

The know-nothings that post here (that's about half the players here) ought not control the rest of us.

They do, however, because they say such outrageously ignorant things that many of feel we have no choice but to correct the record.

Here's a clue for those of us who are honestly posting..

1. You cannot shame those without honor. No sense trying to embarrass them with facts.

2. We cannot fix stupid.

That leaves it up to us to respond to those folks that we believe are HONESTLY posting their POVs.

Those people, regardless of how much we might disagree, deserve both our thoughts AND our respect even if what they believe is personally repugnant to us.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since the establishment of the federal department of public education the chart graphing American academic performance looks like a black diamond ski slope...and democrats are proud

 

[ClosedCaption]

We should reduce college costs or make it free. General public becomes more intelligent. America becomes competitive and in turn you wont have to fly in talent from countries that have free college.

Now, that said the only objection I hear about reducing college costs or making it outright free is this: "Shut up!"

So theres that...

Increasing the level of subsidy available to four-year degree-granting institutions would be a wildly regressive step. The student population at such institutions is disproportionately affluent, and was disproportionately affluent back when college tuition was cheaper. ...

"Would be regressive" got it. Wait, what? Students at colleges are from affluent backgrounds is the point? Ok.

The second big problem, however, is that if the level of subsidy were increased enough to eliminate tuition, the faculty and administrators of public universities would still thirst for more money.

Thirsting for money is not a reason because someone will always thirst for more money

The third and most fundamental problem is simply that it's hardly as if the university sector is the only branch of education that might plausibly want more money.

Again, because someone MAY want more money isn't the reason to reduce or make college free. Yes I know "nothing it free". But we should do it the way everyone else is doing it.

Sure people come over here to go to college. The people that can AFFORD IT. Having the best of anything aint worth much if a large portion of the population cannot access it. Its like saying we have the best Unicorns! Meanwhile America is going down the drain and the only solution is "don't do anything"

 

[hunarcy]

"Would be regressive" got it.

Yes, when you make it free, you subsidize the education of the rich.

And, just as we saw with health care, the cost rise to whatever level government is willing to pay, then exceeds it.


"But we should do it the way everyone else is doing it."

If we are going to do it the way everyone else is doing it, then we will give a test for academic competence during the 7th Grade and then channel them into an academic track or a vocational track. Once they are on that track, there's no changing back. Is that really what you want?

 

[Unkotare]

The answer to this is for the US to emulate what the countries with the best education systems are doing...

That is ridiculously wrong.

 

[ClosedCaption]

"Would be regressive" got it.

Yes, when you make it free, you subsidize the education of the rich.

Annnnnnd everyone else wont have access? I don't understand how that can be but please explain

And, just as we saw with health care, the cost rise to whatever level government is willing to pay, then exceeds it.

"But we should do it the way everyone else is doing it."

If we are going to do it the way everyone else is doing it, then we will give a test for academic competence during the 7th Grade and then channel them into an academic track or a vocational track. Once they are on that track, there's no changing back. Is that really what you want?

Given a test...ok

On a track...alright.

Things can always change...so...yeah

Yes that is what I want and so far you haven't given one reason why this bad

 

[hunarcy]

"Would be regressive" got it.

Yes, when you make it free, you subsidize the education of the rich.

Annnnnnd everyone else wont have access? I don't understand how that can be but please explain

I realize there's lots that you are choosing to not understand, and I have no interest in sparring with you when you're being willfully ignorant.

And, just as we saw with health care, the cost rise to whatever level government is willing to pay, then exceeds it.

"But we should do it the way everyone else is doing it."

If we are going to do it the way everyone else is doing it, then we will give a test for academic competence during the 7th Grade and then channel them into an academic track or a vocational track. Once they are on that track, there's no changing back. Is that really what you want?

Given a test...ok

On a track...alright.

Things can always change...so...yeah

Yes that is what I want and so far you haven't given one reason why this bad

I see. Perhaps I was wrong and you're not being willfully ignorant, but are really such a oppressive soul that you don't see how wrong it is to take choices away from people based on how they performed on one test on one day. Your sort of ignorance ends up with the majority imposing its will on the minority and individual rights being trampled.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

.

Yeah, but at least our kids have REALLY HIGH SELF ESTEEM! And we're REALLY CAREFUL not to HURT THEIR FEELINGS! That's what matters!

Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable



.

My kids went to a primary school that emphsized self confidence. They are much more confident than many of their peers, and they do very well in academics because of their confidence. Their confidence really helps them to improve in the subjects that they are weaker in. I have taught primary school, secondary school and have lectured on the university level, and I can tell you that self confidence is very important in education.

That's all well & good but it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this thread.

This thread is about the liberal policy of passing students who are FAILING academically so as to not hurt them emotionally.

You morons bitch about education needing more money yet you INTENTIONALLY pass failing students.

 

[Iceman]

The answer to this is for the US to emulate what the countries with the best education systems are doing.

Many Americans, especially those on the right, do not want to hear what is going on in other countries.

You can't have first world scores like Europe and East Asia when you have a third world population on average, not realistic. Spending more money won't change that.

 

[ClosedCaption]

"Would be regressive" got it.

Yes, when you make it free, you subsidize the education of the rich.

Annnnnnd everyone else wont have access? I don't understand how that can be but please explain

I realize there's lots that you are choosing to not understand, and I have no interest in sparring with you when you're being willfully ignorant.

And, just as we saw with health care, the cost rise to whatever level government is willing to pay, then exceeds it.

"But we should do it the way everyone else is doing it."

If we are going to do it the way everyone else is doing it, then we will give a test for academic competence during the 7th Grade and then channel them into an academic track or a vocational track. Once they are on that track, there's no changing back. Is that really what you want?

Given a test...ok

On a track...alright.

Things can always change...so...yeah

Yes that is what I want and so far you haven't given one reason why this bad

I see. Perhaps I was wrong and you're not being willfully ignorant, but are really such a oppressive soul that you don't see how wrong it is to take choices away from people based on how they performed on one test on one day. Your sort of ignorance ends up with the majority imposing its will on the minority and individual rights being trampled.

No that would be wrong. So lets not do that one thing. Now its fixed.

Was that the only problem? Lets not take choice away based on one day and one test.

Boom, fixed!