America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Porter Rockwell]

#1140 Porter Rockwell reply #1134 to #1132 “Reference to God in the Declaration of Independence is DEIST not Protestant Christian.”

“In neither the eighteenth century nor today would most people consider a person with those views a “Christian.” Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia

#1134

IF your dumb ass were a student of history, Jefferson made NO statement about his views as they were private. But, what he signed his name to left no doubt... unless you want to call him a liar.

#188

If you had read this thread, I proved, unequivocally, that Jefferson was a Christian. I am not going to argue what has been established as fact..

#1140 FOR THE RECORD: All readers now have a choice. Who is to be believed on the issue of whether Thomas Jefferson was a Christian or not?

(A) Porter Rockwell

(B) The finest Jefferson historians at MONTICELLO Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia | Thomas Jefferson's Monticello


“JEFFERSON AND CHRISTIANITY
While Jefferson was a firm theist, the God in which he believed was not the traditional Christian divinity. Jefferson rejected the notion of the Trinity and Jesus’ divinity. He rejected Biblical miracles, the resurrection, the atonement, and original sin (believing that God could not fault or condemn all humanity for the sins of others, a gross injustice).10 In neither the eighteenth century nor today would most people consider a person with those views a “Christian.”

Jefferson's Religious Beliefs | Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

Jefferson's Religious Beliefs
An Article Courtesy Of The Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia. Click For More.
Thomas Jefferson’s religious beliefs have long been a subject of public discussion,

#1149 it’s exactly as I have said:

“Jefferson rejected the notion of the Trinity and Jesus’ divinity. He rejected Biblical miracles, the resurrection, the atonement, and original sin (believing that God could not fault or condemn all humanity for the sins of others, a gross injustice).10. Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia

#1140. For the record, I choose (B). How about you Correll?

NOTFOOLEDBYW,

The only people left here are you, correll and myself. WHO are you trying to make believe your B.S.? Us or yourself?

When Thomas Jefferson penned the words to the Declaration of Independence, he obviously believed in God from a Christian perspective. The term Divine Providence shows he did believe in the Divinity OR he was just a huckster.

But, wait, out of his own pocket Jefferson was willing to buy anyone in America a Bible - and not his own cut up version.

You think you know more about the historians who have written about Jefferson's views that were forever changing and evolving. You've tried to build your case around one man. You are foolish and you've been responded to every way a poster can respond. You are in need of mental health orofessionals. You are conversing with two people and nobody else gives a rat's rear. You aren't changing our minds because you know you're wrong and we know you're wrong. AND you realize you know we KNOW you're wrong.

You are embarrassing yourself and compounding your own problems. All you've argued is Thomas Jefferson - a man you clearly you do not understand AND HE IS JUST ONE FOUNDER - NOT ALL OF THEM!!!

You need to take fifty dollars and go to the dog pound.Buy yourself a dog. Name him Life. That way you can say you have one.

Jefferson was notorious for going off on a tangent and saying things he would later regret; his views were all over the map in the course of his life. For you to deny it is to deny reality. I leave you with a link to one example:

Jefferson's Letter to Philip Mazzei | The Papers of Thomas Jefferson

 

[Porter Rockwell]

"President Thomas Jefferson was a Protestant."

The religion of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)

Jefferson:

"Read the Bible, then as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The facts which are within the ordinary course of nature, you will believe on the authority of the writer, as you do those of the same kind in Livy and Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor, in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature, does not weigh against them. But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from God. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature, in the case he relates." Letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, advising him in matters of religion, 1787]”
― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” I John 4: 1

Seems to me it's the same thing.

 

[BreezeWood]

"President Thomas Jefferson was a Protestant."

The religion of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)

Jefferson:

"Read the Bible, then as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The facts which are within the ordinary course of nature, you will believe on the authority of the writer, as you do those of the same kind in Livy and Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor, in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature, does not weigh against them. But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from God. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature, in the case he relates." Letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, advising him in matters of religion, 1787]”
― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” I John 4: 1

Seems to me it's the same thing.

.

The religion of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President

Later in his adult life Jefferson did not consider himself an Episcopalian, or a member of any other specific denomination. Later in life Jefferson held many clearly Christian, Deist, and Unitarian beliefs, but was not a member of any congregation or denomination. Today, many Unitarians sincerely believe that Jefferson should be "counted as" a Unitarian, just as many Christians point to Jefferson as a Christian, and many of the small number of Americans who identify themselves as Deists believe Jefferson should be classified a Deist.

do you ever include your own articles in your posts ...

https://www.history.com/news/thomas-jefferson-bible-religious-beliefs

Prepared near the end of the ex-president’s life, the Jefferson Bible, as it is now known, included no signs of Jesus’s divinity. In two volumes, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth and The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Jefferson edited out biblical passages he considered over-the-top or that offended his Enlightenment-era sense of reason. He left behind a carefully condensed vision of the Bible—one that illustrated his own complex relationship with Christianity.

not at all clear what you are saying about Jefferson but they clearly were not a 4th century christian in any way whatsoever writing their own bible to dispel the myth of "christianity" ...

why you are even arguing with w is a mystery.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

"President Thomas Jefferson was a Protestant."

The religion of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)

Jefferson:

"Read the Bible, then as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The facts which are within the ordinary course of nature, you will believe on the authority of the writer, as you do those of the same kind in Livy and Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor, in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature, does not weigh against them. But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from God. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature, in the case he relates." Letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, advising him in matters of religion, 1787]”
― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” I John 4: 1

Seems to me it's the same thing.

.

The religion of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President

Later in his adult life Jefferson did not consider himself an Episcopalian, or a member of any other specific denomination. Later in life Jefferson held many clearly Christian, Deist, and Unitarian beliefs, but was not a member of any congregation or denomination. Today, many Unitarians sincerely believe that Jefferson should be "counted as" a Unitarian, just as many Christians point to Jefferson as a Christian, and many of the small number of Americans who identify themselves as Deists believe Jefferson should be classified a Deist.

do you ever include your own articles in your posts ...

https://www.history.com/news/thomas-jefferson-bible-religious-beliefs

Prepared near the end of the ex-president’s life, the Jefferson Bible, as it is now known, included no signs of Jesus’s divinity. In two volumes, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth and The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Jefferson edited out biblical passages he considered over-the-top or that offended his Enlightenment-era sense of reason. He left behind a carefully condensed vision of the Bible—one that illustrated his own complex relationship with Christianity.

not at all clear what you are saying about Jefferson but they clearly were not a 4th century christian in any way whatsoever writing their own bible to dispel the myth of "christianity" ...

why you are even arguing with w is a mystery.

I don't bother reading multi quotes, but did see your last sentence. "W" came onto this thread, ignored the OP and his repeated posts set the tone for the entire thread. We never "discussed" this thread. We were only treated to his opinion regarding Thomas Jefferson AND his opening posts to call Christianity bullshit.

I'm just not willing to concede defeat to the POS no matter what he does. As for my own opinion, it was not welcome here and "W" made damn sure of it. He makes his stand here and here is where his reputation will die. Trolling a thread until it takes over your life signals that an individual needs mental help. As for me, the next time I post a thread, that individual will think twice before posting prior to READING the first post. Obviously, it's too late to go there. Nobody is left to read the thread.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

America was founded as a Christian nation. We did not need a theocracy to force people to be what most every person already was at the time the Constitution was ratified.

Christianity was interwoven into our history, our nationality, our heritage, and our customs. We didn't need a government God. So, the discussion about a theocracy was used to nuke this thread when it wasn't applicable. The founders / framers were men, NOT Gods. They were sinners, hypocrites, liars, and ... well people. The Bible says that we're all sinners. To look at them and expect to see nothing except daily proclamations of their religiosity is silly - especially considering the era where any mention of His holy name was sacred, so not uttered as if the Christian was wearing their religion on their sleeves... AND people were changing their mind about their tenets of faith.

Still that sense of right and wrong; good and bad; acceptable and unacceptable was universally understood. Today, we are at war with even the next door neighbor because their "good" is not your "good."

Every fifteen minutes there is a commercial blaring on tv by a billionaire that says he has the "resources to change America." It's an attempt to coyly admit he's going to try and buy the White House. He wants to take our firearms so that we cannot resist tyranny, allow murder - especially of children to take place; the guy even proposed laws to tell you how much food your meal could consist of! He actually wanted to outlaw your Right to supersize your fast food order!!! He wants to be your King... your God... from the womb to the tomb. I suspect about all the politicians do.

Benjamin Franklin summed it up best:

“Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.”

My forefathers fought, bled and died for religious Liberty. On this thread, you've witnessed what will happen if those opposed to the principles upon which the Republic rests are allowed to take over.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1141.

Jefferson was notorious for going off on a tangent and saying things he would later regret; his views were all over the map in the course of his life. For you to deny it is to deny reality. I leave you with a link to one example:

Jefferson's Letter to Philip Mazzei | The Papers of Thomas Jefferson

FOR THE RECORD: That’s a pathetic link. That letter has absolutely nothing to do with Jefferson’s disbelief that Jesus was the Son of God. It has nothing to do with religion at all.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1145

We were only treated to his opinion regarding Thomas Jefferson AND his opening posts to call Christianity bullshit.

NEVER CALLED Christianity Bullshit.

I write, There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

I wanted to know how many of today’s Christians would appreciate
Thomas JEFFERSON declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung.

Which I said is a nice word for bullshit.

Jefferson for his entire adult life, in all his writing, basically considered the corruption of Jesus’ moral teachings by the Church And preachers to be bullshit.

He considered Calvinism to be demonic.

I’m not saying Christianity is bullshit.

Here is the Entire Post again:

#78.

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation.

There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

How many currently immersed and obsessed with Christianity today would have appreciated one if the greatest minds of all the founders declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung. Nice word for bullshit.

• Jefferson was most comfortable with Deism, rational religion, and Unitarianism.[3] He was sympathetic to and in general agreement with the moral precepts of Christianity.[4] He considered the teachings of Jesus as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man,"[5] yet he held that the pure teachings of Jesus appeared to have been appropriated by some of Jesus' early followers, resulting in a Bible that contained both "diamonds" of wisdom and the "dung" of ancient political agendas.[6]. Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia

 

[Porter Rockwell]

#1145

We were only treated to his opinion regarding Thomas Jefferson AND his opening posts to call Christianity bullshit.

NEVER CALLED Christianity Bullshit.

I write, There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

I wanted to know how many of today’s Christians would appreciate
Thomas JEFFERSON declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung.

Which I said is a nice word for bullshit.

Jefferson for his entire adult life, in all his writing, basically considered the corruption of Jesus’ moral teachings by the Church And preachers to be bullshit.

He considered Calvinism to be demonic.

I’m not saying Christianity is bullshit.

Here is the Entire Post again:

#78.

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation.

There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

How many currently immersed and obsessed with Christianity today would have appreciated one if the greatest minds of all the founders declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung. Nice word for bullshit.

• Jefferson was most comfortable with Deism, rational religion, and Unitarianism.[3] He was sympathetic to and in general agreement with the moral precepts of Christianity.[4] He considered the teachings of Jesus as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man,"[5] yet he held that the pure teachings of Jesus appeared to have been appropriated by some of Jesus' early followers, resulting in a Bible that contained both "diamonds" of wisdom and the "dung" of ancient political agendas.[6]. Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia

And you lie. Yes, you did. And you agreed to leave this thread, but proved not to be a man of your word. Play semantics all you like, but you're still a troll and you've let this become part of your life. So I remain living in your head, rent free. You're the only one who cares what I post on this thread. The rest of the posters got bored.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Here is some of NOTFOOLEDBYW'S idiotic attempts at trolling:

"John Winthrop was a settler not a founder. Jefferson was a founder and Jefferson was a Diest not a Christian." Post # 80

NOTHING in what our resident troll quoted claimed ANYTHING of the kind regarding John Winthrop. Winthrop was not called a founder, a framer, or anything else... That kind of post is a troll post. From the very first time NOTFOLLEDBYW started posting, he's been wanting a pissing match. He's looked for something to argue about.

He is a liar and the worst kind of person on the face of the earth. An honorable man would have kept his word and exited after being proven to be the liar that he is.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

ACKNOWLEDGING THE TROLL

I made no such claims. NONE OF NOTFOOLEDBYW'S CRITICISMS REFLECT MY VIEWS; NOTHING HE SAYS IS TRUE This list of NOTFOOLEDBYW updated today and an addendum follows in the next post...

NOTFOOLEDBYW - YOU ARE A FILTHY LIAR. SEE THE UPDATES THAT PROVE SAME. Bolded for everyone's convenience

NOTFOOLEDBYW'S FINAL RESPONSE

This thread is now 1025 posts long as I begin this response. Of those, NOTFOOLEDBYW has made a total of 187 posts. They are posts # 78, 80, 111, 113, 118, 126, 140, 154, 157, 158, 159, 162, 172, 174, 179, 189, 192, 195, 196, 197, 203, 204, 205, 212, 220, 224, 225, 232, 233, 234, 235, 240, 240, 241, 242, 243, 246, 247, 254, 255, 256, 267, 279, 280, 285, 290, 296, 297, 302, 307, 309, 318, 321, 328, 330, 335, 339, 340, 341, 345, 347, 350, 350, 351, 352, 367, 370, 373, 381, 393, 394, 399, 401, 404, 411, 412, 413, 420, 421, 425, 426, 429, 430, 431, 432, 468, 485, 500, 504, 508, 512, 516, 519, 525, 527, 537, 539, 541, 546, 549, 551, 554, 557, 559, 561, 563, 565, 566, 569, 570, 574, 577, 581, 582, 587, 589, 606, 607, 610, 626, 630, 636, 642, 644, 646, 684, 688, 699, 700, 703, 704, 707, 708, 709, 715, 716, 718, 724, 725, 730, 740, 744, 746, 747, 750, 753, 754, 755, 761, 762, 769, 774, 782, 7998, 800, ... that is 155 posts out of 805, 807, 812, 824, 827, 830, 831, 832, 844, 847, 860, 872, 899, 904,913, 929, 936, 943, 946, 951, 965, 973, 986, 999, 1011, 1018

In virtually every post NOTFOOLEDBYW has insulted posters, called them liars, misrepresented people, and NOBODY has defended his positions.


By contrast, NOTFOOLEDBYW has been challenged by numerous posters to whom NOTFOOLEDBYW has called liars, fools, morons, and accused them of all manner of wrongdoing. Those posters responded a total of 137 times in posts: #120, 130, 134, 167, 169,174, 176, 175, 176, 180, 185, 206, 207, 250, 282, 299, 346, 346, 354, 396, 397, 403, 405, 406, 407, 414, 415, 416, 424, 427, 428, 433, 434, 438, 439, 440, 445, 446, 447, 448, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 460, 461, 464, 465, 466, 467, 469, 470, 472, 474, 476, 483, 484, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 496, 497, 498, 499, 501, 502, 517, 518, 521, 526, 528, 531, 558, 562, 564, 567, 568, 571, 573, 576, 578, 579, 588, 591, 593, 594, 595, 596, 598, 599, 600, 603, 608, 612, 613, 615, 618, 627, 628, 629, 633, 645, 648, 653, 658, 665, 668, 698, 701, 705, 706, 711, 722, 723, 726, 751, 764, 765, 779, 834, 837, 839, 954, 971, 974, 976, 1002, 1016, 1019

I have been obliged to respond to NOTFOOLEDBYW a total of 90 times personally. That is a total of 414 posts that have revolved around this one poster.

One poster or another has successfully defeated each and every argument he brings to the table. He is now remaining, claiming I lied about Thomas Jefferson - as if that would change the balance of this discussion. Here is my position:

1) When other posters began discussing this as a conversation rather than a point by point, let's prove everything, I got conversational. I quoted Thomas Jefferson from an unnamed source in an online general conversation.

I really do not want to restart any conversations with THIS idiot about Thomas Jefferson and my quote. But, I cut and pasted the quote as I found it on the Internet:

http://peace2you.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Faith-of-Founding-Fathers1.pdf

If you look a few quotes down, you can see where I got it from. When that troll made a big deal out of my inadvertent faux pas of leaving out the link, I looked up the book from where the quote was obtained and put it in post #552. I DIDN'T LIE AND NOTFOOLEDBYW IS A ROTTEN, FILTHY, STINKING, LIAR. ALL of his posts were responded to honestly and openly. Check his posts... he's quoting me and it's there.


2) NOTFOOLEDBYW seized upon that accusing me of posting a lie; even claiming that I edited my source. I did not. I did, however, look at where my source got their material and I quoted where it could be found. I did not lie

3) Regardless of how that material reads, the bottom line is Thomas Jefferson said he was a Christian and I took him at his word as his early life indicates such. Jefferson states, and it was quoted on this thread, that his life experiences changed his outlook. Nothing has changed what Jefferson said at that point in his life

4) Regardless of how many times founders did or said one thing or another, I look at the bottom line and if over half the posts here are either one man arguing against those points compared to the scores of posts disagreeing with him, there is no point to prove. If this matters to you and you want to wade through who said what, you have each post - minus my own (which is unnecessary since all those people who agreed with me either quoted the relevant parts and / or the post itself. My point here is I did not lie and every time that troll posts, I will simply cut and paste this response (that took some hours to research just for him.)

If he still wants to call me a liar, he can do it to my face. Otherwise, he has been successfully defeated by other posters to the point that nothing I have to say would be relevant anyway. IF there are any other points to be addressed, I will be happy to entertain them, just not by the resident troll. The dumb ass needs to read. This post refutes his account of what happened.. I know because I'm the one who did it. I copied and pasted the fucking quote as it appeared and no amount of political jockeying will change that. It's over dumbass

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AN ADDENDUM TO NOTFOOLEDBYW AKA "BREEZEWOOD" if you are following that whizzing contest

Just in case anyone has followed the saga of the poster known as NOTFOOLEDBYW, I want to take a moment to acknowledge his vicious attacks on me that, as I type those were 187 out of the 1025 posts. He received 137 negative responses for his attacks and a single hit and run poster (which is against the rules) took a swipe at me (and that violated the rules in this zone.)

NOTFOOLEDBYW's very first post (#78) was to take a swipe at Christianity with a claim that it was bullshit (sic.) The post did not address the OP; it was just an off topic insult. If his post was not relative to the OP (it was not) then he deliberately, knowingly and purposely insulted me.

NOTFOOLEDBYW has made it his mission to claim I insulted him first. My position is that his post did not address the OP, it started the thread on a downward spiral. So, when I said "ignorance is bliss," he comes unglued for 187 posts so far. His entire argument rests on an accusation regarding what "I" said. I left a quote from a source. The quote is italicized and in quotation marks AND the title and page of a book, but no link. It should be apparent to any idiot that those were not my words.

NOTFOOLEDBYW made a big deal about it, so I researched the book and posted the title and everything needed to locate it on the page my link said it was on. Then NOTFOOLEDBYW issued a challenge in post # 831. He says:

"Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

In post # 838 I accepted his challenge and repeated the quote I had from the Internet:

http://peace2you.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Faith-of-Founding-Fathers1.pdf

NOTFOOLEDBYW's argument is that I lied. Pardon my language, but you have to be one dumb fuck not to understand that a quote in quotation marks AND in italics are not my words, but a quote. Consequently, it is dishonest to say I lied. I provided the source and there is no requirement in NOTFOOLEDBYW'S challenge that says the quote must be accurate or fit some standard. NOTFOOLEDBYW is a dishonorable liar that did not keep his word.

And so this saga has caused NOTFOOLEDBYW to misrepresent my positions, lie, complain, and attempt to derail this thread to the point that correll wants to lock the thread. I simply don't want to give one troll that kind of power over me. NOTFOOLEDBYW has gotten 137 negative responses and he has called posters here morons, liars, fools, LUNATICS, etc. He wanted to be the poster boy for the secularists or maybe humanists. The best he could do is waste a tremendous amount of bandwidth over one word. Ironically, with or without that word, it does not change the facts that were brought to the table AND WHOLLY IRRELEVANT TO THE OP.

SOCKPUPPET ACCOUNTS, DAILY HARASSMENT, THE GUY IS A COWARD AND NOT A MAN OF HIS WORD

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1148

And you lie.

You are the liar. I reposted my first post twice now because be caused it is clear, you you cannot read and comprehend the English language at all.

FOR THE RECORD: Here it is again POST #78.

“There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

How many currently immersed and obsessed with Christianity today would have appreciated one if the greatest minds of all the founders declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung. Nice word for bullshit.”


Where in that statement do I say that Christianity is bullshit?

where? I said Jefferson refers to the Bible as containing Dung. And that is a nice word for Bullshit.

Not even a Jefferson is saying that Christianity is bullshit.

Jefferson cut out the parts of the Bible that he considered Bullshit which left his version of Christianity that he consisted the highest set of moral teachings known to man.

What I’m saying is your absurd need to convert Jefferson into something acceptable to mainstream Christianity is part of the fraud that you are.

For some weird reason you need Jefferson to be a typical Christian to promote your absurd idea that America was FOUNDED as a Christian nation.

You need to accept the truth that I presented and let the lies about Jefferson go,


Quit indirectly calling the Historians and scholars at Monticello liars.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1148

And you agreed to leave this thread, but proved not to be a man of your word.

That is another one of your lies that you force me to defend myself.

I asked for a ‘direct’ quote from Jefferson and you posted the same second or third cut up and pasted version of a quote with the word “CHRIST” added.

you did not post a direct quote from JEFFERSON.

I have posted the direct quotes from Jefferson showing the TRUTH of what he said and thought.

You reposted the fake quote knowing It is fake as if it was a direct quote as I had asked.

That makes you a liar and a fraud as well.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

# 1154 I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Christian Nationalists of today. I consider the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man” but I don’t believe what the Catholic and Protestant Church teach that Jesus was the Son of a God who came to earth to shed blood for the salvation of mankind because of original sin in a Garden of Eden.

 

[ding]

# 1154 I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Christian Nationalists of today. I consider the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man” but I don’t believe what the Catholic and Protestant Church teach that Jesus was the Son of a God who came to earth to shed blood for the salvation of mankind because of original sin in a Garden of Eden.

So then you believe it’s a conspiracy so to speak?

Because not only did he claim to be God, he allowed others to believe he was God. There are too many written manuscripts that detail this to ignore it.

I don’t believe he gave us the option to think the way you do. Either he is who he said he is or he is crazy.

I don’t see any middle ground here.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

#1148

And you lie.

You are the liar. I reposted my first post twice now because be caused it is clear, you you cannot read and comprehend the English language at all.

FOR THE RECORD: Here it is again POST #78.

“There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

How many currently immersed and obsessed with Christianity today would have appreciated one if the greatest minds of all the founders declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung. Nice word for bullshit.”


Where in that statement do I say that Christianity is bullshit?

where? I said Jefferson refers to the Bible as containing Dung. And that is a nice word for Bullshit.

Not even a Jefferson is saying that Christianity is bullshit.

Jefferson cut out the parts of the Bible that he considered Bullshit which left his version of Christianity that he consisted the highest set of moral teachings known to man.

What I’m saying is your absurd need to convert Jefferson into something acceptable to mainstream Christianity is part of the fraud that you are.

For some weird reason you need Jefferson to be a typical Christian to promote your absurd idea that America was FOUNDED as a Christian nation.

You need to accept the truth that I presented and let the lies about Jefferson go,


Quit indirectly calling the Historians and scholars at Monticello liars.

You are the liar and difference between you and I is that I am willing to say it to your face, not come here every day and be a blowhard. I'm not reading your posts. I see, at best, the last sentence.

But, with respect to Thomas Jefferson, you are the only swinging dick lying about him. He never believed in the same thing all his life at all times. You need to quit fretting over that.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

#1148

And you agreed to leave this thread, but proved not to be a man of your word.

That is another one of your lies that you force me to defend myself.

I asked for a ‘direct’ quote from Jefferson and you posted the same second or third cut up and pasted version of a quote with the word “CHRIST” added.

you did not post a direct quote from JEFFERSON.

I have posted the direct quotes from Jefferson showing the TRUTH of what he said and thought.

You reposted the fake quote knowing It is fake as if it was a direct quote as I had asked.

That makes you a liar and a fraud as well.

You asked for a direct quote that I provided. You did not say that the quote had to be approved as authentic by any specific individual. You are a liar, a fraud, an idiot, and the stupidest individual ever to post on USM

You're a fraud because you wailed about me, claiming I lied when all I did was a copy and paste of a quote I found. I didn't lie and you will not call me a liar to my face. You are the coward.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

ACKNOWLEDGING THE TROLL 11 Feb 2020 Update

I made no such claims. NONE OF NOTFOOLEDBYW'S CRITICISMS REFLECT MY VIEWS; NOTHING HE SAYS IS TRUE This list of NOTFOOLEDBYW updated today and an addendum follows in the next post...

NOTFOOLEDBYW - YOU ARE A FILTHY LIAR. SEE THE UPDATES THAT PROVE SAME. Bolded for everyone's convenience

NOTFOOLEDBYW'S FINAL RESPONSE

This thread is now 1158 posts long as I begin this response. Of those, NOTFOOLEDBYW has made a total of 213 posts. They are posts # 78, 80, 111, 113, 118, 126, 140, 154, 157, 158, 159, 162, 172, 174, 179, 189, 192, 195, 196, 197, 203, 204, 205, 212, 220, 224, 225, 232, 233, 234, 235, 240, 240, 241, 242, 243, 246, 247, 254, 255, 256, 267, 279, 280, 285, 290, 296, 297, 302, 307, 309, 318, 321, 328, 330, 335, 339, 340, 341, 345, 347, 350, 350, 351, 352, 367, 370, 373, 381, 393, 394, 399, 401, 404, 411, 412, 413, 420, 421, 425, 426, 429, 430, 431, 432, 468, 485, 500, 504, 508, 512, 516, 519, 525, 527, 537, 539, 541, 546, 549, 551, 554, 557, 559, 561, 563, 565, 566, 569, 570, 574, 577, 581, 582, 587, 589, 606, 607, 610, 626, 630, 636, 642, 644, 646, 684, 688, 699, 700, 703, 704, 707, 708, 709, 715, 716, 718, 724, 725, 730, 740, 744, 746, 747, 750, 753, 754, 755, 761, 762, 769, 774, 782, 7998, 800, ... that is 155 posts out of 805, 807, 812, 824, 827, 830, 831, 832, 844, 847, 860, 872, 899, 904,913, 929, 936, 943, 946, 951, 965, 973, 986, 999, 1011, 1018,1033, 1037, 1039, 1040, 1047, 1049, 1052, 1063, 1074, 1076, 1079, 1080, 1083, 1090, 1096, 1097, 1108, 1111, 1124, 1132, 1140, 1146, 1147, 1152, 1153, 1154

In virtually every post NOTFOOLEDBYW has insulted posters, called them liars, misrepresented people, and NOBODY has defended his positions.


By contrast, NOTFOOLEDBYW has been challenged by numerous posters to whom NOTFOOLEDBYW has called liars, fools, morons, and accused them of all manner of wrongdoing. Those posters responded a total of 137 times in posts: #120, 130, 134, 167, 169,174, 176, 175, 176, 180, 185, 206, 207, 250, 282, 299, 346, 346, 354, 396, 397, 403, 405, 406, 407, 414, 415, 416, 424, 427, 428, 433, 434, 438, 439, 440, 445, 446, 447, 448, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 460, 461, 464, 465, 466, 467, 469, 470, 472, 474, 476, 483, 484, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 496, 497, 498, 499, 501, 502, 517, 518, 521, 526, 528, 531, 558, 562, 564, 567, 568, 571, 573, 576, 578, 579, 588, 591, 593, 594, 595, 596, 598, 599, 600, 603, 608, 612, 613, 615, 618, 627, 628, 629, 633, 645, 648, 653, 658, 665, 668, 698, 701, 705, 706, 711, 722, 723, 726, 751, 764, 765, 779, 834, 837, 839, 954, 971, 974, 976, 1002, 1016, 1019 - and I have not recorded the people who have disagreed with him past this point

I have been obliged to respond to NOTFOOLEDBYW more than 100 times personally. There are roughly 500 posts that have revolved around this one poster. TO DATE NOBODY IS SUPPORTING HIS CRAP AND HE'S EVEN SUNK SO LOW AS TO HAVE SOCKPUPPET ACCOUNTS.

One poster or another has successfully defeated each and every argument he brings to the table. He is now remaining, claiming I lied about Thomas Jefferson - as if that would change the balance of this discussion. Here is my position:

1) When other posters began discussing this as a conversation rather than a point by point, let's prove everything, I got conversational. I quoted Thomas Jefferson from an unnamed source in an online general conversation.

I really do not want to restart any conversations with THIS idiot about Thomas Jefferson and my quote. But, I cut and pasted the quote as I found it on the Internet:

http://peace2you.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Faith-of-Founding-Fathers1.pdf

If you look a few quotes down, you can see where I got it from. When that troll made a big deal out of my inadvertent faux pas of leaving out the link, I looked up the book from where the quote was obtained and put it in post #552. I DIDN'T LIE AND NOTFOOLEDBYW IS A ROTTEN, FILTHY, STINKING, LIAR. ALL of his posts were responded to honestly and openly. Check his posts... he's quoting me and it's there.


2) NOTFOOLEDBYW seized upon that accusing me of posting a lie; even claiming that I edited my source. I did not. I did, however, look at where my source got their material and I quoted where it could be found. I did not lie

3) Regardless of how that material reads, the bottom line is Thomas Jefferson said he was a Christian and I took him at his word as his early life indicates such. Jefferson states, and it was quoted on this thread, that his life experiences changed his outlook. Nothing has changed what Jefferson said at that point in his life

4) Regardless of how many times founders did or said one thing or another, I look at the bottom line and if over half the posts here are either one man arguing against those points compared to the scores of posts disagreeing with him, there is no point to prove. If this matters to you and you want to wade through who said what, you have each post - minus my own (which is unnecessary since all those people who agreed with me either quoted the relevant parts and / or the post itself. My point here is I did not lie and every time that troll posts, I will simply cut and paste this response (that took some hours to research just for him.)

If he still wants to call me a liar, he can do it to my face. Otherwise, he has been successfully defeated by other posters to the point that nothing I have to say would be relevant anyway. IF there are any other points to be addressed, I will be happy to entertain them, just not by the resident troll. The dumb ass needs to read. This post refutes his account of what happened.. I know because I'm the one who did it. I copied and pasted the fucking quote as it appeared and no amount of political jockeying will change that. It's over dumbass

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AND THEN THERE WERE NONE

We started this thread almost a month ago on 13 January 2020. The premise for this thread is that America was FOUNDED as a Christian nation. Although I started this thread, one poster, NOTFOOLEDBYW, decided he would co-opt, derail and run this thread. He failed to get any support. If you are dedicated to finding the truth, every objection that NOTFOOLEDBYW has been refuted. He may have posted a lot of bluster, but he did not stop the truth.

While I never got to explain exactly what is meant by FOUNDED as a Christian nation, we got to expose the secularists, deists, humanists, atheists, and others who try to silence the truth and expose them for who and what they are.

America was founded as a Christian nation. Some consider the genesis of the founding as synonymous with the Declaration of Independence. That is inaccurate. Our nation had over 150 years of development behind it before the Declaration of Independence was penned. We had become our own people. And, America was, by and large, Christian. Culturally, the people were Christian. Of this there is no substantial denial. The men who signed their names to the Declaration of Independence, on the day they signed that document, acknowledged a Christian God. This is beyond dispute.

Each of the signatories signed that document "with a firm reliance on Divine Providence" which was synonymous with a Christian God. As evidence of this, I go back to my original post (Post # 1.) John Winthrop, a Protestant, gave a sermon in the language of those times. Winthrop's sermon begins with "GOD ALMIGHTY in His most holy and wise providence" and Winthrop uses He and His without any references to Jesus Christ. On the very first page of the sermon, this sentence jumps out: "From hence it appears plainly that no man is made more honorable than another or more wealthy etc., out of any particular and singular respect to himself, but for the glory of his Creator and the common good of the creature..." and by page 2 of Winthrop's sermon we find this: "Honor the Lord with thy riches," etc. --- All men being thus (by divine providence)" showing, unequivocally that when the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence were fully cognizant that when they pledged their Lives, Fortunes and sacred Honor, it was before a Christian God. Divine Providence is an acknowledgment of the Trinity.

While these men did not create a theocracy, the first contribution that they made was a commitment to Liberty. They understood Liberty from a Christian concept. The fact that so many meetings took place in homes, churches, and in barns for years prior to the Declaration of Independence and had a difficult time separating from the rule of King George, especially reconciling Independence with the admonitions in Romans 13 fill many pages of historical texts.

In the end, the founders adopted the common law the colonists and founders came here with. Its basis is Christianity. When we pass a statute, we then interpret that statute based upon a line of reasoning. That reasoning is predicated upon how we handled previous cases. Since we had no starting point on legal reasoning - we used the reasoning of the English law... which was based on a Christian perspective. Consequently, our concept of right and wrong; good and bad; evil versus acceptable stem from a Christian perspective. So, the first contribution of the Christians to our form of government is the commitment to Liberty and the second contribution would be the common law.

But, due to the ego of one man, our incessant troll, with a holier than thou attitude, (AND NOT ONE POSTER SUPPORTED HIS ERRONEOUS OPINIONS) we were prevented from having this discussion. While there may be no more new material being discussed on this thread, I will continue to oppose this childish troll because he CAN be defeated. He cannot silence the truth forever.

 

[BreezeWood]

AND THEN THERE WERE NONE

We started this thread almost a month ago on 13 January 2020. The premise for this thread is that America was FOUNDED as a Christian nation. Although I started this thread, one poster, NOTFOOLEDBYW, decided he would co-opt, derail and run this thread. He failed to get any support. If you are dedicated to finding the truth, every objection that NOTFOOLEDBYW has been refuted. He may have posted a lot of bluster, but he did not stop the truth.

While I never got to explain exactly what is meant by FOUNDED as a Christian nation, we got to expose the secularists, deists, humanists, atheists, and others who try to silence the truth and expose them for who and what they are.

America was founded as a Christian nation. Some consider the genesis of the founding as synonymous with the Declaration of Independence. That is inaccurate. Our nation had over 150 years of development behind it before the Declaration of Independence was penned. We had become our own people. And, America was, by and large, Christian. Culturally, the people were Christian. Of this there is no substantial denial. The men who signed their names to the Declaration of Independence, on the day they signed that document, acknowledged a Christian God. This is beyond dispute.

Each of the signatories signed that document "with a firm reliance on Divine Providence" which was synonymous with a Christian God. As evidence of this, I go back to my original post (Post # 1.) John Winthrop, a Protestant, gave a sermon in the language of those times. Winthrop's sermon begins with "GOD ALMIGHTY in His most holy and wise providence" and Winthrop uses He and His without any references to Jesus Christ. On the very first page of the sermon, this sentence jumps out: "From hence it appears plainly that no man is made more honorable than another or more wealthy etc., out of any particular and singular respect to himself, but for the glory of his Creator and the common good of the creature..." and by page 2 of Winthrop's sermon we find this: "Honor the Lord with thy riches," etc. --- All men being thus (by divine providence)" showing, unequivocally that when the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence were fully cognizant that when they pledged their Lives, Fortunes and sacred Honor, it was before a Christian God. Divine Providence is an acknowledgment of the Trinity.

While these men did not create a theocracy, the first contribution that they made was a commitment to Liberty. They understood Liberty from a Christian concept. The fact that so many meetings took place in homes, churches, and in barns for years prior to the Declaration of Independence and had a difficult time separating from the rule of King George, especially reconciling Independence with the admonitions in Romans 13 fill many pages of historical texts.

In the end, the founders adopted the common law the colonists and founders came here with. Its basis is Christianity. When we pass a statute, we then interpret that statute based upon a line of reasoning. That reasoning is predicated upon how we handled previous cases. Since we had no starting point on legal reasoning - we used the reasoning of the English law... which was based on a Christian perspective. Consequently, our concept of right and wrong; good and bad; evil versus acceptable stem from a Christian perspective. So, the first contribution of the Christians to our form of government is the commitment to Liberty and the second contribution would be the common law.

But, due to the ego of one man, our incessant troll, with a holier than thou attitude, (AND NOT ONE POSTER SUPPORTED HIS ERRONEOUS OPINIONS) we were prevented from having this discussion. While there may be no more new material being discussed on this thread, I will continue to oppose this childish troll because he CAN be defeated. He cannot silence the truth forever.

.

You asked for a direct quote that I provided. You did not say that the quote had to be approved as authentic by any specific individual. You are a liar, a fraud, an idiot, and the stupidest individual ever to post on USM

^^^ that's a bit of a stretch, rockwell -

w - has not prevented anyone else from posting in your dubiously titled thread.

what is the difference between multi-posts and overlengthy posts ... * lets try, clarity.