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Amazon labor in New York votes to UNIONIZE and will become a Uinion

Grumblenuts

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The biggest problem with our system is that it's a hybrid of private, employer provided, and government provided. We would be better off if we picked just one regardless of which one it is.
True, however there's a significant difference between providing health care and health insurance. Conflating the two serves the interests of big employers and insurance corporations. Not conflating them serves the interests of workers and governments.

Health insurance acts as a middle man who then pays all the actual providers of health care services. Notice how the employer need play no role. Employers simply deduct what health insurers demand for doing all they pretend to do for profit. Easy payroll programming, fully tax deductible expenses. Why pick them? Employers and middle men, that is? Why not just let governments handle it? We already pay and trust them to protect us from foreign invasion so why not trust them to pay our health care bills?

Better yet, governments could provide health care services and compete with the private sector, thereby keeping them efficient and honest. Medicare For All. In any case, who needs employers or health insurance corporations inserting themselves between us and our providers of health care? Who asked them to? No one sane, that's for sure.
 

Grumblenuts

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Her argument is that if we can create a Government monopoly that it will be cheaper and better somehow, basically? If that worked out it would be the first time in the history of Government that they were able to do it cheaper AND better than the private sector. Unless someone has another instance where a Government run system is cheaper and provides a better service than a comparable private sector entity. Im drawing a blank on an example of that happening.
Typical political reaction. Again, never heard of the Army, Air Force, Marines,.. , NASA, NOAA? The private sector has and still does attempt to compete, but all they've really managed to do is make it messier and more expensive.
 
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Grumblenuts

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Oh the other issue this Congresswoman is ignoring (I don't believe she doesn't know) is that in large part Medicare is shored up by the private insurance industry. Indirectly through taxes, and directly by doctors and hospitals charging private insurance companies more than it can/does Medicare to make up the losses they absorb by servicing Medicare accounts. Like at twice and sometimes 3-4 times the rate.
What?
 

skews13

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I'm sure that the Chinese people see this day coming. China has so much of a head start on forethought over this nation I'm not sure the United States can ever catch up. They are too concerned with putting skirts on men and making sure some 110 lb transgender female convert to male hormones gets her place on the battlefield so she can be slaughtered by a masculine 250 lb enemy soldier. They are more concerned with corrupting the morals of four year old children
than they are keeping an eye on the potential tyrants of this world. As this once great nation slowly but surely boils in its frog pot water gradually falling asleep to the dangers of the planet around them the Chinese dragon is only just now beginning to wake up in real Ernst. For a hungry Dragon there's nothing quite as tasty as a freshly boiled frog for a wake up snack.

You must be young. China is where it is because Union busting Republicans gutted regulations a long time ago, that allowed American companies to move to China for cheap labor.

How’s that cheap China labor working out for you?
 

Grumblenuts

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Our Constitution states that our federal government is obliged, not just to provide for our "common defense," but to "promote the general Welfare" as well. Nothing promotes "the general Welfare" more than "health care."
 

Couchpotato

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Typical political reaction. Again, never heard of the Army, Air Force, Marines,.. , NASA, NOAA? The private sector has and still does attempt to compete, but all they've really managed to do is make it messier and more expensive.
What does that have to do with what I said? There's zero evidence of that private companies are what's making it more expensive. Unless you'd like to link to something?




the problem is the people who advocate for medicare for all act like healthcare will be all rainbows and unicorn farts if only the Government (one of the more inefficient entities ever conceived by man) just takes it over. No one ever wants to actually look at the costs and the pros and cons of it. Or how our current system works and why that might be the reason costs are driven up.
 

Grumblenuts

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What does that have to do with what I said? There's zero evidence of that private companies are what's making it more expensive. Unless you'd like to link to something?




the problem is the people who advocate for medicare for all act like healthcare will be all rainbows and unicorn farts if only the Government (one of the more inefficient entities ever conceived by man) just takes it over. No one ever wants to actually look at the costs and the pros and cons of it. Or how our current system works and why that might be the reason costs are driven up.
Got cognitive dissonance? You've only proven her point here, not your own:
Her argument is that if we can create a Government monopoly that it will be cheaper and better somehow, basically? If that worked out it would be the first time in the history of Government that they were able to do it cheaper AND better than the private sector.
 
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Couchpotato

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Got cognitive dissonance? You've only proven her point here, not your own:
You cant be this dumb. Medicare sets it's prices lower than the market value of the service. The only way it can do that and get away with it, is that service providers pass that shortfall on to private insurer's. If you eliminate the private insurance companies the cost of the service doesn't go down the Government will just have to pay more.
 

Grumblenuts

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You cant be this dumb. Medicare sets it's prices lower than the market value of the service. The only way it can do that and get away with it, is that service providers pass that shortfall on to private insurer's. If you eliminate the private insurance companies the cost of the service doesn't go down the Government will just have to pay more.
Wow. I must admit, never heard that one before. Let me make sure I've got this straight. There's this health care "market" some place that assigns each billable service an official "value" so that's what service providers all charge. Mean Old Medicare then looks that up, chops off a fixed percentage, and tells the service providers to call their customer's favorite health insurance corporation and beg for mercy or be content with the chopped amount. So they do.. Ring, ring, ring.. "Hello, Innocent Insurance Corporation,.. how may I direct your call? Click, bzzz.. "Shit!" Ring, ring-a- ling! "Hey doc, we're the ones supposedly interested in controlling costs, remember? Why didn't you just call us to begin with? DENIED!" Click, bzzz.. Boom, boom, boom, is heard in the distance.. as the heads of service providers, sick patients, Medicare employees, and of the masses in general softly explode nationwide.. again.. and again..

You cant be this dumb!
You cant be this dumb!
You cant be this dumb!


And yet,.. incredibly,.. somehow,.. you are!
 

Couchpotato

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Wow. I must admit, never heard that one before. Let me make sure I've got this straight. There's this health care "market" some place that assigns each billable service an official "value" so that's what service providers all charge. Mean Old Medicare then looks that up, chops off a fixed percentage, and tells the service providers to call their customer's favorite health insurance corporation and beg for mercy or be content with the chopped amount. So they do.. Ring, ring, ring.. "Hello, Innocent Insurance Corporation,.. how may I direct your call? Click, bzzz.. "Shit!" Ring, ring-a- ling! "Hey doc, we're the ones supposedly interested in controlling costs, remember? Why didn't you just call us to begin with? DENIED!" Click, bzzz.. Boom, boom, boom, is heard in the distance.. as the heads of service providers, sick patients, Medicare employees, and of the masses in general softly explode nationwide.. again.. and again..

You cant be this dumb!
You cant be this dumb!
You cant be this dumb!


And yet,.. incredibly,.. somehow,.. you are!
Wow. How can you expect to discuss a topic you're so miserably uninformed about? So why is it you think that the Government gets such a good deal on health care? Why do they get to pay 5 dollars for an Xray and Kaiser has to pay 20?
 

Grumblenuts

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Wow. How can you expect to discuss a topic you're so miserably uninformed about? So why is it you think that the Government gets such a good deal on health care? Why do they get to pay 5 dollars for an Xray and Kaiser has to pay 20?
Very funny. Unsurprisingly, you choose Kaiser as your model. Kaiser remains a very distinct, giant sort of corporate fish from the norm these days. Non-profit, still actually providing health care insurance AND services. This isn't about that. Tons of the crazy changes have occurred in HMOs, Medicare, and Medicaid since they emerged. But nice attempt to distract. I know, what choice do you have left?

In any case, just like all the other surviving, "employer based," behemoths, Kaiser knows full well. It's been their plan all along. Getting doctors to work together and agree on shit has been like herding cats since the 1890s. Kaiser's figured out many clever ways to do it since,.. all initiated with government funding. Unlike you, they've always known exactly how to get governments to butter their toast their way while crying the blues publicly the entire time.
 

Jarlaxle

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Not a big fan of labor unions I've seen them do nasty things too.

But all the stories I've heard from Amazon employees about managerial abuse including some admissions from Bezos himself about the conditions that they work in.... And well all I can say is they get what they ask for. The employees will now be respected like it or not.
Or they'll be unemployed.
 

Couchpotato

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Very funny. Unsurprisingly, you choose Kaiser as your model. Kaiser remains a very distinct, giant sort of corporate fish from the norm these days. Non-profit, still actually providing health care insurance AND services. This isn't about that. Tons of the crazy changes have occurred in HMOs, Medicare, and Medicaid since they emerged. But nice attempt to distract. I know, what choice do you have left?

In any case, just like all the other surviving, "employer based," behemoths, Kaiser knows full well. It's been their plan all along. Getting doctors to work together and agree on shit has been like herding cats since the 1890s. Kaiser's figured out many clever ways to do it since,.. all initiated with government funding. Unlike you, they've always known exactly how to get governments to butter their toast their way while crying the blues publicly the entire time.
My selection of Kaiser was random. They are just a big name insurance company I figured everyone had heard of. Feel free to pick another one. You've yet to explain why private insurance companies pay 3-4 times what Medicare pays for the same service, and how, if we go to a Medicare For All those services are suddenly going to only cost 1/4 of what the private insurers are paying. Because Medicare said so?
 

Grumblenuts

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My selection of Kaiser was random. They are just a big name insurance company I figured everyone had heard of. Feel free to pick another one. You've yet to explain why private insurance companies pay 3-4 times what Medicare pays for the same service, and how, if we go to a Medicare For All those services are suddenly going to only cost 1/4 of what the private insurers are paying. Because Medicare said so?
Did you really not listen to the woman? Medicare has an established track record of doing just that or better. So you need to ask yourself how removing all the currently mandated interference from "private insurance companies" and "private employers" would not make the entire business cheaper? Single payer. Just accomplishing that.. tons of waste.. POOF!.. gone.

As I just said, "private insurance companies pay 3-4 times what Medicare pays for the same service" because they want to! You think Medicare puts a gun to their head and says "Pay more or else!"? You're blaming the victim here. Who do you think's been corrupting Medicare and Medicaid for profit? The service providers create the bills. Medicare has always just told service providers (in advance!) the maximum Medicare will pay for this or that service to Medicare A and B card holders.

The big employers PREFER spending more on worker insurance to granting workers pay raises for obvious reasons. The insurance cabal has now fucked us all with their "Medicare Advantage" and "Supplement" Plans and you think either Medicare or "the government" itself somehow wanted that outcome? You think "the government" wanted Obamacare? The workers? If so.. Be extra careful out there.. You never know.. What may be coming..
:aug08_031:Next..
 

Couchpotato

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Did you really not listen to the woman? Medicare has an established track record of doing just that or better. So you need to ask yourself how removing all the currently mandated interference from "private insurance companies" and "private employers" would not make the entire business cheaper? Single payer. Just accomplishing that.. tons of waste.. POOF!.. gone.

As I just said, "private insurance companies pay 3-4 times what Medicare pays for the same service" because they want to! You think Medicare puts a gun to their head and says "Pay more or else!"? You're blaming the victim here. Who do you think's been corrupting Medicare and Medicaid for profit? The service providers create the bills. Medicare has always just told service providers (in advance!) the maximum Medicare will pay for this or that service to Medicare A and B card holders.

The big employers PREFER spending more on worker insurance to granting workers pay raises for obvious reasons. The insurance cabal has now fucked us all with their "Medicare Advantage" and "Supplement" Plans and you think either Medicare or "the government" itself somehow wanted that outcome? You think "the government" wanted Obamacare? The workers? If so.. Be extra careful out there.. You never know.. What may be coming..
:aug08_031:Next..


LOL you think the insurance providers want to pay more and that Medicare (ie The Government) is just better at keeping costs down? Really?

Just for arguments sake let's say Medicare pays 5 dollars per x-ray and the private sector pays 15. Every year medical providers take a 1000 x-rays across the country. Half are billed to Medicare for 2500, and half to private companies for 7500. What happens when the private companies are gone and Medicare only pays the providers 5k for the same number of x-rays they used to get 10k for? Is it suddenly going to be cheaper to take the 1000 x-rays just because Medicare is paying for them? Do you really believe the healthcare industry is running a profit margin that large?
 

WEATHER53

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Grumblenuts

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LOL you think the insurance providers want to pay more and that Medicare (ie The Government) is just better at keeping costs down? Really?

Just for arguments sake let's say Medicare pays 5 dollars per x-ray and the private sector pays 15. Every year medical providers take a 1000 x-rays across the country. Half are billed to Medicare for 2500, and half to private companies for 7500. What happens when the private companies are gone and Medicare only pays the providers 5k for the same number of x-rays they used to get 10k for? Is it suddenly going to be cheaper to take the 1000 x-rays just because Medicare is paying for them? Do you really believe the healthcare industry is running a profit margin that large?
Let's see.. stawman argument.. hypothetical whatabout-IF-ism.. classically finishing up with a loaded question flourish..

Yep, I'm convinced you seriously prefer this "employer based" form of indentured servitude even more than direct "fee for service." And yes, "the healthcare industry," meaning those who actually profit from providing related insurance and services, have definitely been gaming the system while you've been asleep on your couch.
 
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Couchpotato

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Let's see.. stawman argument.. hypothetical whataboutism.. classically finishing up with a loaded question..

Yep, I'm convinced you seriously prefer this "employer based" form of indentured servitude even more than direct "fee for service." And yes, "the healthcare industry," meaning those who actually profit from providing related insurance and services, have definitely been gaming the system while you've been asleep on your couch.
So you have no answers. Got it.
 

Grumblenuts

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You've offered zero verifiable facts to support your idiotic inquiries, potato man.
 

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