Allen West is a disgrace.

[digger]

Did 'enhanced interrogation' save Los Angeles?


If you live in L.A. and didn't die in a terrorist attack, you may owe it to the CIA's use of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" that are currently under fire from the Obama administration and the left-wing fringe.


In a compelling Op-Ed in Tuesday's Washington Post, Marc A. Thiessen disproves Barack Obama's hollow claim that such techniques "did not make us safer." Rather than following the MSM lead and merely parroting the Obamatons' talking points after the release of previously-classified memos this week, Thiessen actually examined the documents.


Thiessen concludes that Obama's contention is "patently false. The proof is in the memos Obama made public -- in sections that have gone virtually unreported in the media."


"...that have gone virtually unreported in the media." No surprise there. The legacy media has proved to be singularly un-inquisitive when it comes to facts that get in the way of Obama talking points.


Thiessen specifically refers to a May, 2005 memo regarding two top al Qaeda operatives, Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah:


"the CIA believes 'the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qaeda has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.' . . . In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including [Khalid Sheik Mohammed] and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques... Before the CIA used enhanced techniques ... KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon you will find out.' "


But once the enhanced techniques were used, "interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates."


In other words, the techniques worked when previous interrogation methods had failed.


Indeed, the memos point out that the only way to get information from Qaeda operatives may be through the use of such enhanced methods:


"as Abu Zubaydah himself explained with respect to enhanced techniques, 'brothers who are captured and interrogated are permitted by Allah to provide information when they believe they have reached the limit of their ability to withhold it in the face of psychological and physical hardship."


The CIA documents reveal specifically that the enhanced techniques:


"led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles... information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' "


Further, the memo states that KSM might never have been captured, and the information he revealed never learned, without enhanced interrogation techniques used against Zubaydah.


"...Zubaydah -- again, once enhanced techniques were employed -- furnished detailed information regarding al Qaeda's 'organizational structure, key operatives, and modus operandi' and identified KSM as the mastermind of the September 11 attacks."

American Thinker Blog: Did 'enhanced interrogation' save Los Angeles?

I followed your article to the legitimate news story that it was based on. No one but you will be surprised to hear this, but your article warped the information as far as it could possibly go and still be considered technically truthful.

You're justifying torture because you think it works. The only reason you think it works is that Obama's document dump had two memos in it in which the CIA said that they think it works. Why? Because a terrorist told them so! That's not evidence. That's people who committed horrible crimes trying to justify it to themselves.

Regardless, even if those techniques described in the article work, they are completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Because West did not use those techniques. All he did was kidnap him, blindfold him, beat him, and threaten to kill him.

And regardless of the regardless, it doesn't matter if it worked or not. There's no evidence that West got any useful information through torture. But even if he did, it doesn't matter. Torture is wrong. The ends do not justify the means. And the ends aren't even there anyway. It has been explained to you several times in this thread why torture hurts the military mission in Iraq. It hurts our standing in the world. And it hurts our immortal souls, if you care about such things.

PS : I don't like it when people call torture "enhanced interrogation." They know it's torture. The euphemism might be a sign of shame. And doing something your shameful of is weak. Or the euphemism might be to dodge the lawyers. And that's just wrong. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There is no such thing as "rule of law" republicans. They honor treason

Doncha think you've had enough crack for one day?

 

[Jroc]

Do any of you libs know what was done to Japanese prisoners in the invasion of Japan before we dropped the bomb? They were killed. I saw an interview with a WWII vet he said they couldn't bring them with them, they had no food for them, and they couldn't leave them so they had to kill them. War is hell that's the way it is....and you people complain about scaring someone.

 

[bodecea]

I see a trend in who some on the Right admire in the Military....West....North.....those who do not follow the law. Them, they like.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How does it feel? That's exactly what you say about those of us that disagree with Obama, who is the racist now?

It feels just fine because it doesn't apply to me.

First of all, I'm black, so its impossible to be racist against blacks, unless I'm some rancid radical greasy RWer like say, West or something.

Secondly, its just another DUMB radical RW fringer reaction, in the form of a false equivalence the CON$ do to assuage their guilt and/or drag others down into the gutter with them.

I would say nice try...but it really wasn't.

*Yawn*

Where I come from your statement above would get you this: "that guy sure does talk a lot ,but doesn't say much. He's full of shit".
BTW genius, anyone can be racist against any group or person.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Apparently not, as no real connection was ever found. And since he had the means and ability to do things properly through trained 35M or 35L soldiers, he should have. Dragging in a police officer and doing an illegal interrogation is not the way to protect your men.

Maybe if you read a little more you would find out that attacks against his men stopped after this incident and didn't start again until after he was relieved. Hmmm, didn't your talking points cover that little bit of information?

Then by that reasoning the best thing the Army could do in Iraq is start abducting local officials, have some goons beat the shit out of them and turn them loose.

Ollie, you should submit that suggestion to Petraeus.

Only stating the known facts that others tend to leave out.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Good-for-Nothin' CON$ are just that, good. for. nothing!

Your heart is filled with hate, your head is filled with mush. Racism drives every post you make.

So what exactly are YOU good for?

 

[Wicked Jester]

I see a trend in who some on the Right admire in the Military....West....North.....those who do not follow the law. Them, they like.

You spent twenty years stepping all over military rules, and I have zero respect for you so, as usual, you're full of shit!

 

[thereisnospoon]

It feels just fine because it doesn't apply to me.

First of all, I'm black, so its impossible to be racist against blacks, unless I'm some rancid radical greasy RWer like say, West or something.

Secondly, its just another DUMB radical RW fringer reaction, in the form of a false equivalence the CON$ do to assuage their guilt and/or drag others down into the gutter with them.

I would say nice try...but it really wasn't.

*Yawn*

So you judge whether a person is racist base on their skin color?????

I think you need to rethink your racist comment. Negg'd for being a racist....

it's not racist to dislike someone , its not racist to disagree , but when you put up pictures of chimpanzees as his parents your a racist bastard ,
the teabaggers are a home for skin heads , it used to be libertarians but those dumb ass's kept trying to get lyndon Larush , our own American nazi , in fact head of the --- you know .

cant take you seriously when your leaders a white supremo's nut job .

Prove it! You don't get to make general statements such as that and get a away with it.
You Lefties waltz around saying how open minded you are and how accepting you are of other people and viewpoints are the FIRST to make vicious broad statements against anyone who dares to not share your viewpoint. That makes you every bit the same as those you criticize.
It cuts both ways, sunshine. You just got exposed.
BTW Mr room temperature IQ...The guy's name is Lyndon Larouche..And he was a self proclaimed Libertarian crack pot who thought he didn't have to pay taxes. This guy hasn't been around for 20 years. Is your arsenal so limited that you have to bring up a de-facto dead guy? Jesus Christ you libs are the champs.

 

[Uncensored2008]

it's not racist to dislike someone , its not racist to disagree , but when you put up pictures of chimpanzees as his parents your a racist bastard ,
the teabaggers are a home for skin heads , it used to be libertarians but those dumb ass's kept trying to get lyndon Larush , our own American nazi , in fact head of the --- you know .

cant take you seriously when your leaders a white supremo's nut job .

You're a right ******* genius...

Guess you're a racist, huh?

 

[Uncensored2008]

are4 you saying you never saw the picture of THE PRESIDENTS MOTHER AND FOTHER AS CHIMPANZIES AND YOU DON'T THINK THAT CAUSE TO CALL RACISM ? REALLY ?

Not when you filthy ***** were doing it to Bush.

Bush or Chimp? YOU DECIDE

 

[thereisnospoon]

Recognizing race as relevant in American society is not racist. Racism is a structural inequality in which certain people have more hardship and less opportunity. Those of us who perpetuate this are racists, and most of us do to a certain degree.

But, I am not racist, many white folks have said.
But racism's not just a thought in your head
It's the privilege we wield when we walk down the street
And don't have to fear each White cop that we meet
It's the power you're handed from the moment of birth
When you're told your pale skin is your measure of worth.
color blind is a code word for the problems not mine.
Because White folks have the privilege to say everything's fine
It's all the shit we never went through, all the pain we never felt
It's in this stacked deck of cards, and the hand we were dealt.

That's a bunch of psycho babble.
It buys right into the notion carried by the Left and self hating Caucasians that says but for the fact that one is Caucasian, he is therefore privileged and guilty of racism.
That's a crock of shit. As far as I am concerned those that hold these ideas are excusing their own racism.
Your kind of rhetoric is poisonous.

 

[digger]

Do any of you libs know what was done to Japanese prisoners in the invasion of Japan before we dropped the bomb? They were killed. I saw an interview with a WWII vet he said they couldn't bring them with them, they had no food for them, and they couldn't leave them so they had to kill them. War is hell that's the way it is....and you people complain about scaring someone.

War is a sticky situation, no doubt about it. And no, I didn't know about those Japanese POWs who got killed. Not sure how I feel about that. But if you've got no choice, you've got no choice. Still, couldn't they have disarmed them and left them on an island somewhere? I dunno. Sounds like a really tough decision to make.

Whereas in West's case, he had plenty of options. He could have simply not tortured the man. He could have turned him over to trained interrogators to do the job. Of course, there's a good chance he'd just get tortured by the interrogators. But then I'd be calling that person a monster instead of West.

The mission in Iraq does not involved people who are not trained in interrogation using techniques that do not work to extract information that is not true. To compare that to military necessity is extremely dishonest.

I'm actually not clear on what the Geneva Convention says you're supposed to do with POWs that you can't feed. My guess is that it says you're not supposed to take them prisoner in the first place. But I do know what the Geneva Convention says about torture. It's very clear. Don't do it.

 

[slukasiewski]

h

I see a trend in who some on the Right admire in the Military....West....North.....those who do not follow the law. Them, they like.

You spent twenty years stepping all over military rules, and I have zero respect for you so, as usual, you're full of shit!

Amen to that brother!
That Dishonorable Douche started her lies day ONE of her military career when asked if she ever particiapated in a homo act.

"NO" was the answer checked.

Liar.

Dishonorable.

Fraudulant enlistment.

Should be brought back on active duty and ******* court-martialed.

Integrity - ZERO.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Racial caricatures are only racist if you apply them to someone whose race matches the caricature. Pictures of Bush as a monkey were intended to make fun of his intellect and had nothing to do with his skin color. You really couldn't figure that out on your own? I think you're a troll.

ROFL

Your not only a ******* hypocrite, you're an utter moron.

What a ******* fool.

No wonder you're a leftist.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm not playing the victim card. I'm privileged. Do you have an image of me as a Black 20-year-old?

I have an image of you as a drooling retard with an IQ of 20.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I apologize for my vulgar spitting comments referring to West. I let the base negative instincts get the better of me. I wouldn't spit in his face...that's rude.

Besides, he'd kick the **** out of your whiny little liberal ass.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A White man who speeds past a Black man getting a ticket and does nothing to stop racial profiling is racist.

Being racist isn't about having racist thoughts. It's about participating in a racist structure, and benefiting from it, without doing anything to dismantle it.

With power come responsibility.

HUH? We are supposed to stop a cop from writing a ticket to a black driver?
Your statement assumes that black people never violate traffic laws but are only stopped because they are black.
Tell me oh great one...If a police officer tracks a car that is speeding at night, how does he know the driver is black? Are there "black" cars? Do cops have "black radars"?
Your rhetoric is the simplistic crutch leaning bullshit that perpetuates distrust between the races. YOU are guilty of racism.

 

[digger]

You exist in a context. You profit from racism every day. If you do nothing to stop it, you are complacent. Complacency plus profit is participation. You just like to let other people do the dirty work for you while you pretend that we live in a color blind society.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Please this slowly...then explain what an article 128 is. Jester, please focus on this for a second. What exactly is an article 128? Then get into article 134. You had the nerve to call me a poseur? Poseur, Allen West is a disgrace.

While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men.[11] The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer.[11] At first, West thought the reports were a joke...until a week later when several of his officers were ambushed when he was supposed to be traveling with them. At that point, Colonel West began taking the risk of a planned assassination attempt seriously. [11] West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted or witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi.[11] In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Mr. Hamoodi appeared to go for his weapon and needed to be subdued.[11] Hamoodi was beaten by four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body.[12] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head.[11] Hamoodi then provided West with names and information, what Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[11] At least one suspect was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[11] West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."[11]

West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers."[citation needed] The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000.[11] LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[13] After Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw became more dangerous and chaotic.[11]




(I am talking to military people for a minute here) there are rules and the ucmj is there for a reason. True?You violate it, you can get kicked out. Righty Mr. West? Civilians dont seem to get this. There are are reasons why you do missions you are responsible for. When you cross the line, you are in violation of the UCMJ. Righty Jester? This disgraced idiot was never responsible for that interrogation. That is why he was busted and in my opinion, they should not have given him a choice and they should have put him behind bars for 10 years.

HE IS A DISGRACE. I know a lot of civilians will say so what, but the military has rules and this "officer" broke them. There are ways to complete mission while following the damn rules. I am going with the army and not some arm chair guy who says "so what"..he committed assult and I agree with the Army. He should have and did have to retire.

God bless America.

Jester, prove me wrong. This will be the hardest thing you have ever done but, If you dont like the link, prove me wrong with a different one that says he did't commit assult. You know, article 128 and dont forget article 134.


Allen West (politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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