Zone1 Allegory man, this thread is for you!!

[Votto]

The premise makes no sense. God is a belief an allegory is a story with meaning. Why would God perform a miracle in the first place. We are supposed tom control our destines, our lives and the outcomes we create. If God was to step in then he failed

Just trying to understand your perception of God.

Is God a sovereign being?

 

[ding]

entertaining ...



how can honesty be more important than a thousand trees ... does anyone ever get things right, must be another desert dweller narrative for the lame and irresponsible.

I wish there was a “dumb” reaction button so I could have clicked it for your post.

 

[Votto]

The premise makes no sense. God is a belief an allegory is a story with meaning. Why would God perform a miracle in the first place. We are supposed tom control our destines, our lives and the outcomes we create. If God was to step in then he failed

If God did not create me, I would not call him my God.

There would be no need.

 

[Hafar1014]

Just trying to understand your perception of God.

Is God a sovereign being?

Perception is the wrong word we cant perceive God. It conception. For me God is an abstract concept beyond what we can know at this time. I can assume some things from human qualities. He values autonomy over obedience, a life with meaning I define, there are objective moral truths the 10 commandments, male and female are equal and the only 2 genders, good will always defeat evil only if we make the effort.

God is not an idol with a name and personality like Jesus.

 

[Hafar1014]

If God did not create me, I would not call him my God.

There would be no need.

God didnt create you your mother and father started it then you finished the process. Why would God create you?

 

[Votto]

God didnt create you your mother and father started it then you finished the process. Why would God create you?

There is the little problem of creating matter and the physical universe itself, or do you view it as eternal?

Then there is the life thingy. Do you really believe life came from nonliving matter without any outside interventions?

If God did not create us, we would describe him as an alien instead.

What am I missing here?

 

[BreezeWood]

I wish there was a “dumb” reaction button so I could have clicked it for your post.

here -

use that one ...

 

[ding]

There is the little problem of creating matter and the physical universe itself

The science shows that the universe is so improbable that it could have only been an intentional creative act.

 

[Hafar1014]

There is the little problem of creating matter and the physical universe itself, or do you view it as eternal?

Then there is the life thingy. Do you really believe life came from nonliving matter without any outside interventions?

If God did not create us, we would describe him as an alien instead.

We cant know for sure.
Everything must have a beginning and an end entropy
You cant get something from nothing but then who is the creator of creators?
If we try and answer the questions we face a paradox.
An alien could have created us but then we can assume God created the alien.
An alien a million years evolved would be seen as God.

For me the best argument for God is th inherent human need to create a life that has meaning. God created enlightenment first not sunlight. It separates the light from the darkness good from evil. A human quality not given to animals. We are more than beings that need to survive and procreate. We must stad for something that benefits humanity.

1. "What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him."​

As a student and young practitioner, Frankl studied under the leading psychological minds of Vienna, notably Sigmund Freud and Alfred Adler. But Frankl grew disillusioned with psychological models that were focused on internal neuroses, like Freud's obsession with libido, or Adler's "inferiority complex."

"Frankl said that these theories describe man as an island solely interested in 'How do I feel?' and ignoring the most important questions: 'Why am I here and what am I good for?'" says Batthyány. "If we know the answer to these, many of the other problems are solved."

When Frankl says that man doesn't need a "tensionless state," he's saying that the goal of life isn't to attain happiness or comfort, which is often the focus of today's "self-help" and "self-improvement" culture.

"The primary motivation for living is to find meaning," wrote Frankl. The goal is to figure out how to live in such a way that gives purpose and meaning to existence, often by serving or sacrificing your own desires for the benefit of others.

Bonus quote: "The more one forgets himself — by giving himself to a cause to serve or another person to love — the more human he is and the more he actualizes himself."

2. "In some way, suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice."​

The wedding photo of Viktor Frankl and Tilly Grosser, 1941.
Imagno/Getty Images
When Frankl was first brought to the camps, he was carrying the unfinished manuscript for a book about logotherapy hidden in his coat. The manuscript, like all his personal possessions, was taken from him and destroyed.

In "Man's Search for Meaning," Frankl described how, in the midst of his torturous existence in the camps, he would occupy his mind with thoughts of his wife Tilly, and with the task of remembering his book, page by page, chapter by chapter. His "why" for staying alive was twofold: to see his Tilly again, and to finish his book. That was the sense of purpose that Frankl needed to survive.

In logotherapy, the psychologist tries to help his or her patients identify their own sense of purpose, even in the midst of significant suffering or sadness.

Batthyány tells a story of an elderly doctor who had just lost his wife of 60 years and was so crushed by her death that he could barely get out of bed. Frankl asked him, "What would have happened if you had died first instead of your wife?" The doctor replied, "My God, she would have suffered so. It would have been awful for her." Frankl then said, "You see? Your suffering is painful, but isn't it good that you took it away from her?" The man had found his reason for living.

"He was ready to suffer out of love," says Batthyány, "and that's the difference between suffering and desperation. Desperation is meaningless suffering, but suffering is part of life."

Bonus quote: "Nietzsche’s words: 'He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how,' could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohygienic efforts regarding prisoners."

 

[Votto]

We cant know for sure.
Everything must have a beginning and an end entropy
You cant get something from nothing but then who is the creator of creators?
If we try and answer the questions we face a paradox.
An alien could have created us but then we can assume God created the alien.
An alien a million years evolved would be seen as God.

For me the best argument for God is th inherent human need to create a life that has meaning. God created enlightenment first not sunlight. It separates the light from the darkness good from evil. A human quality not given to animals. We are more than beings that need to survive and procreate. We must stad for something that benefits humanity.

​

1. "What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him."​

As a student and young practitioner, Frankl studied under the leading psychological minds of Vienna, notably Sigmund Freud and Alfred Adler. But Frankl grew disillusioned with psychological models that were focused on internal neuroses, like Freud's obsession with libido, or Adler's "inferiority complex."

"Frankl said that these theories describe man as an island solely interested in 'How do I feel?' and ignoring the most important questions: 'Why am I here and what am I good for?'" says Batthyány. "If we know the answer to these, many of the other problems are solved."

When Frankl says that man doesn't need a "tensionless state," he's saying that the goal of life isn't to attain happiness or comfort, which is often the focus of today's "self-help" and "self-improvement" culture.

"The primary motivation for living is to find meaning," wrote Frankl. The goal is to figure out how to live in such a way that gives purpose and meaning to existence, often by serving or sacrificing your own desires for the benefit of others.

Bonus quote: "The more one forgets himself — by giving himself to a cause to serve or another person to love — the more human he is and the more he actualizes himself."

2. "In some way, suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice."​

The wedding photo of Viktor Frankl and Tilly Grosser, 1941.
Imagno/Getty Images
When Frankl was first brought to the camps, he was carrying the unfinished manuscript for a book about logotherapy hidden in his coat. The manuscript, like all his personal possessions, was taken from him and destroyed.

In "Man's Search for Meaning," Frankl described how, in the midst of his torturous existence in the camps, he would occupy his mind with thoughts of his wife Tilly, and with the task of remembering his book, page by page, chapter by chapter. His "why" for staying alive was twofold: to see his Tilly again, and to finish his book. That was the sense of purpose that Frankl needed to survive.

In logotherapy, the psychologist tries to help his or her patients identify their own sense of purpose, even in the midst of significant suffering or sadness.

Batthyány tells a story of an elderly doctor who had just lost his wife of 60 years and was so crushed by her death that he could barely get out of bed. Frankl asked him, "What would have happened if you had died first instead of your wife?" The doctor replied, "My God, she would have suffered so. It would have been awful for her." Frankl then said, "You see? Your suffering is painful, but isn't it good that you took it away from her?" The man had found his reason for living.

"He was ready to suffer out of love," says Batthyány, "and that's the difference between suffering and desperation. Desperation is meaningless suffering, but suffering is part of life."

Bonus quote: "Nietzsche’s words: 'He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how,' could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohygienic efforts regarding prisoners."

We cant know for sure.
Everything must have a beginning and an end entropy
You cant get something from nothing but then who is the creator of creators?
If we try and answer the questions we face a paradox.
An alien could have created us but then we can assume God created the alien.
An alien a million years evolved would be seen as God.

For me the best argument for God is th inherent human need to create a life that has meaning. God created enlightenment first not sunlight. It separates the light from the darkness good from evil. A human quality not given to animals. We are more than beings that need to survive and procreate. We must stad for something that benefits humanity.

We can answer these questions while avoiding a paradox. As you say, time measures from point A to point B, therefore, everything and everyone confined to the dimension time governs must have a beginning and an end. The key is the notion of being confined to the dimension in which time rules. God, or whatever came before God, came from a dimension in which time did not exist, i.e., the material universe.

Naturally, we have no way to relate to that dimension because it is completely foreign to us.

But it was not long ago the scientists though the universe was eternal, until science later learned about the Big Bang. Science also has learned that other dimensions exist that we have trouble defining.

You then say that God created enlightenment? Why enlightenment and not light itself?

Very odd.

But if you answer the question of where the universe came from, you are still left to answer where life came from.

To think that it just happened is rather infantile, at least from an educated position.

 

[Woodznutz]

It wouldn’t have been as entertaining and memorable.

The way I read the story little George was caught red-handed and had to fess up.

 

[Hafar1014]

We cant know for sure.
Everything must have a beginning and an end entropy
You cant get something from nothing but then who is the creator of creators?
If we try and answer the questions we face a paradox.
An alien could have created us but then we can assume God created the alien.
An alien a million years evolved would be seen as God.

For me the best argument for God is th inherent human need to create a life that has meaning. God created enlightenment first not sunlight. It separates the light from the darkness good from evil. A human quality not given to animals. We are more than beings that need to survive and procreate. We must stad for something that benefits humanity.

We can answer these questions while avoiding a paradox. As you say, time measures from point A to point B, therefore, everything and everyone confined to the dimension time governs must have a beginning and an end. The key is the notion of being confined to the dimension in which time rules. God, or whatever came before God, came from a dimension in which time did not exist, i.e., the material universe.

Naturally, we have no way to relate to that dimension because it is completely foreign to us.

But it was not long ago the scientists though the universe was eternal, until science later learned about the Big Bang. Science also has learned that other dimensions exist that we have trouble defining.

You then say that God created enlightenment? Why enlightenment and not light itself?

Very odd.

But if you answer the question of where the universe came from, you are still left to answer where life came from.

To think that it just happened is rather infantile, at least from an educated position.

According to Einstein time is not linear.
The sun hadnt been created yet so its cant be sunlight.
Sometimes you just have to have the wisdom to admit you just dont know.
I never said it just happened.

 

[Woodznutz]

We cant know for sure.
Everything must have a beginning and an end entropy
You cant get something from nothing but then who is the creator of creators?
If we try and answer the questions we face a paradox.
An alien could have created us but then we can assume God created the alien.
An alien a million years evolved would be seen as God.

For me the best argument for God is th inherent human need to create a life that has meaning. God created enlightenment first not sunlight. It separates the light from the darkness good from evil. A human quality not given to animals. We are more than beings that need to survive and procreate. We must stad for something that benefits humanity.

​

1. "What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him."​

As a student and young practitioner, Frankl studied under the leading psychological minds of Vienna, notably Sigmund Freud and Alfred Adler. But Frankl grew disillusioned with psychological models that were focused on internal neuroses, like Freud's obsession with libido, or Adler's "inferiority complex."

"Frankl said that these theories describe man as an island solely interested in 'How do I feel?' and ignoring the most important questions: 'Why am I here and what am I good for?'" says Batthyány. "If we know the answer to these, many of the other problems are solved."

When Frankl says that man doesn't need a "tensionless state," he's saying that the goal of life isn't to attain happiness or comfort, which is often the focus of today's "self-help" and "self-improvement" culture.

"The primary motivation for living is to find meaning," wrote Frankl. The goal is to figure out how to live in such a way that gives purpose and meaning to existence, often by serving or sacrificing your own desires for the benefit of others.

Bonus quote: "The more one forgets himself — by giving himself to a cause to serve or another person to love — the more human he is and the more he actualizes himself."

2. "In some way, suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice."​

The wedding photo of Viktor Frankl and Tilly Grosser, 1941.
Imagno/Getty Images
When Frankl was first brought to the camps, he was carrying the unfinished manuscript for a book about logotherapy hidden in his coat. The manuscript, like all his personal possessions, was taken from him and destroyed.

In "Man's Search for Meaning," Frankl described how, in the midst of his torturous existence in the camps, he would occupy his mind with thoughts of his wife Tilly, and with the task of remembering his book, page by page, chapter by chapter. His "why" for staying alive was twofold: to see his Tilly again, and to finish his book. That was the sense of purpose that Frankl needed to survive.

In logotherapy, the psychologist tries to help his or her patients identify their own sense of purpose, even in the midst of significant suffering or sadness.

Batthyány tells a story of an elderly doctor who had just lost his wife of 60 years and was so crushed by her death that he could barely get out of bed. Frankl asked him, "What would have happened if you had died first instead of your wife?" The doctor replied, "My God, she would have suffered so. It would have been awful for her." Frankl then said, "You see? Your suffering is painful, but isn't it good that you took it away from her?" The man had found his reason for living.

"He was ready to suffer out of love," says Batthyány, "and that's the difference between suffering and desperation. Desperation is meaningless suffering, but suffering is part of life."

Bonus quote: "Nietzsche’s words: 'He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how,' could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohygienic efforts regarding prisoners."

"How to gives the strength for the why", generally speaking.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This thread is only about the Bible.

Focus!!

A Thread Is Not a Tightrope

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Is God a sovereign being?

Sovereigns invented God in order to get the peasants in a mind-set to believe in a benevolent tyranny

 

[Votto]

Sovereigns invented God in order to get the peasants in a mind-set to believe in a benevolent tyranny

It used to be that world leaders would claim to be God so that the people worship them, but when that fell out of favor, they claimed to speak for God so that they would do everything they told them, but when that fell out of favor, they said that there is no God, thus making them the ultimate authority once again.

But yea, they will all answer to a real God, and something tells me he won't be too happy about all that.

 

[ding]

The way I read the story little George was caught red-handed and had to fess up.

Did he? If I recall Adam was caught red handed and he still managed to not take accountability.

 

[BreezeWood]

Did he? If I recall Adam was caught red handed and he still managed to not take accountability.

according to the 4th century christian bible -

than the 1st century rendering of a&e choosing self determination instead of servitude and denial and to accomplish the heavenly goal granted them for their own judgement and admission to the everlasting.

 

[ding]

according to the 4th century christian bible -

than the 1st century rendering of a&e choosing self determination instead of servitude and denial and to accomplish the heavenly goal granted them for their own judgement and admission to the everlasting.

You would see following God’s commands as servitude.

 

[Woodznutz]

Did he? If I recall Adam was caught red handed and he still managed to not take accountability.

God laid accountability on him.