Agree or not: The rich benefit the most from tax money?

[Intense]

You are free to take the job or not. You are free to compete at some level. Sometimes it is about accomplishment more than profit.

True, true, fair point, but you are also free to choose whether to invest your hard earned money or not.

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

 

[hboats]

True, true, fair point, but you are also free to choose whether to invest your hard earned money or not.

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

There's getting to be more and more guarantees though, thanks to our wonderful government. We now have guaranteed health care, we have guaranteed that no large business will fail. Pretty soon we'll have more guarantees, thanks to ever expanding government control and involvement in things they should not be involved in.

Rick

 

[Intense]

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

There's getting to be more and more guarantees though, thanks to our wonderful government. We now have guaranteed health care, we have guaranteed that no large business will fail. Pretty soon we'll have more guarantees, thanks to ever expanding government control and involvement in things they should not be involved in.

Rick

Yeah... Hows that been working out? ... LOL

We are gonna be needing a bigger check book Lucy!!!! What comes after a Trillion?

 

[Vast LWC]

You know what? You actually have a good point.

I get most of my interpretation of what Ann Rand believes second-hand. I have honestly only read bits and pieces of her actual work.

Do you have a specific book that would sum her up best that I might pick up and read?

I probably won't agree with most of it, but I prefer to be educated before passing judgement.

On Her... "We The Living", or "Anthem". My favorite of her works "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead".

Excellent, I'll head down to the bookstore this evening and pick one of those up. Thanks.

 

[Jarhead]

You know what? You actually have a good point.

I get most of my interpretation of what Ann Rand believes second-hand. I have honestly only read bits and pieces of her actual work.

Do you have a specific book that would sum her up best that I might pick up and read?

I probably won't agree with most of it, but I prefer to be educated before passing judgement.

On Her... "We The Living", or "Anthem". My favorite of her works "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead".

Excellent, I'll head down to the bookstore this evening and pick one of those up. Thanks.

Just a correction if I may.

I beleve the authors name is Ayn Rand...not Ann Rand.

 

[Intense]

You know what? You actually have a good point.

I get most of my interpretation of what Ann Rand believes second-hand. I have honestly only read bits and pieces of her actual work.

Do you have a specific book that would sum her up best that I might pick up and read?

I probably won't agree with most of it, but I prefer to be educated before passing judgement.

On Her... "We The Living", or "Anthem". My favorite of her works "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead".

Excellent, I'll head down to the bookstore this evening and pick one of those up. Thanks.

"Anthem", Futuristic Communal Society, inside the mind of one member. I think it was her first. Very short read, but enlightening.

"We The Living" is a fictional, but similar account of life in Russia post Revolution. It's eye opening.

"The Fountainhead" One Architect against the Powers that be. Think Gary Cooper, Patricia Neil, Raymond Massey.
The Fountainhead (1949)

"Atlas Shrugged" Titan of a read, long and Prophetic.

All of this stuff is on Amazon, with write up's and free shipping? Just a thought.

 

[Vast LWC]

Just a correction if I may.

I beleve the authors name is Ayn Rand...not Ann Rand.

It is, that was a typo.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Of course, the government workers can only grow rich off our tax money, or theft which it actually is on most planets.........

Government workers are the only rich people I know...........

 

[Foxfyre]

True, true, fair point, but you are also free to choose whether to invest your hard earned money or not.

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

Yes, before I went into business for myself I worked as an Independent Contractor, and yes, I had to sign a contract. But I had to bring little to the contract other than my skill set and work ethic. And if I was unable to fulfill the contract, all it cost me was the payment that I would otherwise have received. I required anybody who hired me to name me as an additional named insured so I didn't have to carry my own E&O and business liability insurance, but there was little serious risk to me anyway. If I screwed up,it was far more likely my client would have been sued as he or she was the one with the deep pockets. And even if I was named, they would have been also.

But again, to assume that the Independent Contractor or the employee invests anywhere nearly as much or takes anywhere near the risk as the employer is to simply be wearing huge blinders.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

There's getting to be more and more guarantees though, thanks to our wonderful government. We now have guaranteed health care, we have guaranteed that no large business will fail. Pretty soon we'll have more guarantees, thanks to ever expanding government control and involvement in things they should not be involved in.

Rick

Yes and though the Independent Contractor is essentially self employed and thus is not entitled to any pay if he or she defaults on the contract or if the client goes broke and can't pay, etc., the employee will usually be entitled to work comp or unemployment compensation or other benefits if he or she loses his/her job. And the employer gets nothing if he loses his.

 

[Intense]

The Employer invests his time to bid on the contract. That is often a very lengthy and time consuming process and if he doesn't get the contract, he does it for free.

The Employer provides the credentials, reputation, track record, business license, general liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, E & O (if required), and various other insurance and bonds as necessary to complete the process.

The Employer usually has to pay for any environmental impact studies done, prove that he complies with zoning laws, and get necessary permits, get approvals from necessary utilities and other entities before work can begin.

The Employer provides the infrastructure, equipment, supplies, and, as often as not, any tools necessary to complete the job.

The Employer will be named in any lawsuit, regardless of whether he was at fault in any way, arising out of the contract and will have to pay any legal costs associated by that.

The Employer is responsible to provide any necessary support staff and supervisory personnel and sometimes will provide transportation.

The Employer will have to meet the payroll and pay all other impending costs until sufficient work has been completed so that he receives some payment.
___________________________________________________________

The Employee has to show up for work, put in the required effort, collect his pay check and he goes home. If the job folds or the employer loses the contract, he might lose a pay check, but for the most part his investment and risk is minimal compared to that the employer assumes.

____________________________________________________________

Okay your turn. Rebut that if you can.

And then maybe you might shift your thinking about who benefits more. The employer? Or the 100 guys who are able to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, and keep their kids in school.

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

Yes, before I went into business for myself I worked as an Independent Contractor, and yes, I had to sign a contract. But I had to bring little to the contract other than my skill set and work ethic. And if I was unable to fulfill the contract, all it cost me was the payment that I would otherwise have received. I required anybody who hired me to name me as an additional named insured so I didn't have to carry my own E&O and business liability insurance, but there was little serious risk to me anyway. If I screwed up,it was far more likely my client would have been sued as he or she was the one with the deep pockets. And even if I was named, they would have been also.

But again, to assume that the Independent Contractor or the employee invests anywhere nearly as much or takes anywhere near the risk as the employer is to simply be wearing huge blinders.

I'm licensed and Insured, it's required. I have no complaint with that, it is well reasoned, I realize what is necessary and comply. If I have a complaint at all, it is with those that do not understand the cost of doing business, making judgments beyond their understanding. My income is based on what I succeed in doing, what I accomplish. There is no payment for lost time or failure. I accept that. What I don't accept is condescending entitlement.

 

[Foxfyre]

Even Independent Contractors are signing contracts and taking risks. Risk is part of life no matter what part of the equation your interest lies. There are few guarantee's.

Yes, before I went into business for myself I worked as an Independent Contractor, and yes, I had to sign a contract. But I had to bring little to the contract other than my skill set and work ethic. And if I was unable to fulfill the contract, all it cost me was the payment that I would otherwise have received. I required anybody who hired me to name me as an additional named insured so I didn't have to carry my own E&O and business liability insurance, but there was little serious risk to me anyway. If I screwed up,it was far more likely my client would have been sued as he or she was the one with the deep pockets. And even if I was named, they would have been also.

But again, to assume that the Independent Contractor or the employee invests anywhere nearly as much or takes anywhere near the risk as the employer is to simply be wearing huge blinders.

I'm licensed and Insured, it's required. I have no complaint with that, it is well reasoned, I realize what is necessary and comply. If I have a complaint at all, it is with those that do not understand the cost of doing business, making judgments beyond their understanding. My income is based on what I succeed in doing, what I accomplish. There is no payment for lost time or failure. I accept that. What I don't accept is condescending entitlement.

As an Independent Contractor, I was fortunate to be in a field where my clients did pick up most of the peripheral costs, but once we struck out on our own, then yes, we had to have all the necessary licenses and insurance and, because we were working in a financially sensitive area, also carried an additional surety bond just in case, and all that is no insignificant expense.

There is much to say for feeling that you are getting paid what you are worth and having significant control over your schedule etc., but those who think that the employees carry anywhere near the same investment and/or risk as the employer are simply terribly uninformed.

(I still blame liberal education. )