ChrisL
Diamond Member
Do we kill and stone women for adultery here in America? Yes or no.
A Young Woman Stoned for Adultery
- Thread starter Mrs. M.
- Start date
Do we kill and stone women for adultery here in America? Yes or no.
Alex.
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2014
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Delta4Embassy: "google ten commandments artard. I don't need to cite proof the sky is blue."
artard
A retard as mentioned in South Park. Complete moron, absolute idiot.
Urban Dictionary: artard
I look up the term you called me, that is proof enough you are arguing in a vacuum. So you have nothing to backup your claim.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Alex.
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2014
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I was addressing Delta's post comparing a secular government to a theocracy.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
I was addressing Delta's post comparing a secular government to a theocracy.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
I know that. I just think both are equally irrelevant to the social dynamic behind events such as referenced in this thread.
Alex.
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2014
- 9,894
- 4,982
- 2,095
- Banned
- #86
I know, I was addressing Delta's post.I was addressing Delta's post comparing a secular government to a theocracy.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
I know that. I just think both are equally irrelevant to the social dynamic behind events such as referenced in this thread.
I know, I was addressing Delta's post.I was addressing Delta's post comparing a secular government to a theocracy.Do Christians in America do this? No, they do not.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
I know that. I just think both are equally irrelevant to the social dynamic behind events such as referenced in this thread.
Yes, once again, I realize that.
Again, whatever the merits of your arguments versus his, I'm simply saying both are off the topic of the root causes of the instant case in the OP. In other words neither is relevant to it.
HenryBHough
Diamond Member
Hey, you'll like Sharia Law when it comes to America!
Because.....if you don't then you'll be stoned to death!
Because.....if you don't then you'll be stoned to death!
ChrisL
Diamond Member
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Come on, only Muslims practice this barbarism nowadays. This is part of their Sharia law, so is indeed part of their "religion."
ChrisL
Diamond Member
No country -- and no religion --- practices this. That's my whole point.
This isn't being "protective of religion". I have no reason to do that. This is simply being protective of Truth. Which IS sacred.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Come on, only Muslims practice this barbarism nowadays. This is part of their Sharia law, so is indeed part of their "religion."
Nope, wrong, and no, it isn't. Actual figures are hard to come by (many go unreported) but the two places where HBV goes on the most are India and Pakistan. That means among Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and the nonreligious.
That's not a function of those countries' governments, and it's not a function of any of those religions or lack-of. It's a function of culture. And it always has been.
This site is nauseatingly slow right now so I'm not going to continue for the moment but I refer you back to post 18 (which has never been refuted or challenged) and note that HBV serves no religious purpose in any religion, because it's simply not an act OF religion but an act of cultural status and mores. IOW it doesn't do anything for the perps religiously; it serves a purpose (as they see it) socially. And I make the distinction because Anthroplogy is a particular area of study/interest of mine.
The attempt by the emotion-mongering gadflies to pin this on Islam (or Hiduism, or Sikhism, or national governments) only serves to take our eye off the ball of the real roots, which have to do with ancient cultural hyperpatriarchy. That's it comes from and that's where the change has to happen. Until it does, its ill effects will continue. In this and too many other ways.
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ChrisL
Diamond Member
No country -- and no religion --- practices this. That's my whole point.
This isn't being "protective of religion". I have no reason to do that. This is simply being protective of Truth. Which IS sacred.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Come on, only Muslims practice this barbarism nowadays. This is part of their Sharia law, so is indeed part of their "religion."
Nope, wrong, and no, it isn't. Actual figures are hard to come by (many go unreported) but the two places where HBV goes on the most are India and Pakistan. That means among Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and the nonreligious.
That's not a function of those countries' governments, and it's not a function of any of those religions or lack-of. It's a function of culture. And it always has been.
This site is nauseatingly slow right now so I'm not going to continue for the moment but I refer you back to post 18 (which has never been refuted or challenged) and note that HBV serves no religious purpose in any religion, because it's simply not an act OF religion but an act of cultural status and mores. IOW it doesn't do anything for the perps religiously; it serves a purpose (as they see it) socially. And I make the distinction because Anthroplogy is a particular area of study/interest of mine.
The attempt by the emotion-mongering gadflies to pin this on Islam (or Hiduism, or Sikhism, or national governments) only serves to take our eye off the ball of the real roots, which have to do with ancient cultural hyperpatriarchy. That's it comes from and that's where the change has to happen. Until it does, its ill effects will continue. In this and too many other ways.
Yes, countries actually DO practice this as a form of punishment under their brand of Sharia law. Who are you trying to kid here? Why do you continue to defend this backwards arse crap? I don't get it. It's awful, barbaric and ignorant.
Special report: The punishment was death by stoning. The crime? Having
ChrisL
Diamond Member
No country -- and no religion --- practices this. That's my whole point.
This isn't being "protective of religion". I have no reason to do that. This is simply being protective of Truth. Which IS sacred.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Come on, only Muslims practice this barbarism nowadays. This is part of their Sharia law, so is indeed part of their "religion."
Nope, wrong, and no, it isn't. Actual figures are hard to come by (many go unreported) but the two places where HBV goes on the most are India and Pakistan. That means among Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and the nonreligious.
That's not a function of those countries' governments, and it's not a function of any of those religions or lack-of. It's a function of culture. And it always has been.
This site is nauseatingly slow right now so I'm not going to continue for the moment but I refer you back to post 18 (which has never been refuted or challenged) and note that HBV serves no religious purpose in any religion, because it's simply not an act OF religion but an act of cultural status and mores. IOW it doesn't do anything for the perps religiously; it serves a purpose (as they see it) socially. And I make the distinction because Anthroplogy is a particular area of study/interest of mine.
The attempt by the emotion-mongering gadflies to pin this on Islam (or Hiduism, or Sikhism, or national governments) only serves to take our eye off the ball of the real roots, which have to do with ancient cultural hyperpatriarchy. That's it comes from and that's where the change has to happen. Until it does, its ill effects will continue. In this and too many other ways.
Why do you keep lying about this? Stoning is a punishment that exists in any country that practices Sharia law, such as Iran.
HenryBHough
Diamond Member
On the brighter side, when Sharia law comes to America we can get back to using the term "stoned" in the way Allah intended.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
We have a Constitution that protects us from that kind of religious bullshit. THAT is just one reason why it is so important to keep bogus religious beliefs OUT of our government operations!
TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
Altruism; you comprehend it zero percent.
No country -- and no religion --- practices this. That's my whole point.
This isn't being "protective of religion". I have no reason to do that. This is simply being protective of Truth. Which IS sacred.
Do Christians in America do this? No, they do not.
"Their punishment included an immediate severe whipping at the public post in Plymouth, a second whipping at the public post in Yarmouth (where the act was committed), and the wearing of "two letters, namely, an AD, for Adulterers, daily, vpon the outside of their vppermost garment, in a most emenent place thereof" for as long as they remain in the colony (PCR 2:28). Failure to wear the letters would result in another whipping. This is the only case in which both parties receive identical punishments."
"The law of Plymouth Colony set forth a very high standard of ideal sexual conduct -- one might say it was an ideal adopted from the laws of their God. Sodomy, rape, buggery, and adultery (for a time) were all crimes punishable by death. Fornication and other lascivious acts outside of marriage were strictly forbidden. However, when faced with a capital crime, the court avoided execution in all but one case."
Sexual Misconduct in Plymouth Colony
And more recently the Ku Klux Klan did the same thing. That's why I call 'em the "American Taliban".
Actually laws on the books are as irrelevant as religion, since acts like the OP are, like lynchings or Klan whippings, vigilante "justice" -- a mob mentality outside the purview of both.
Not every act that mobs commit is traceable to either laws or religions.
Come on, only Muslims practice this barbarism nowadays. This is part of their Sharia law, so is indeed part of their "religion."
Nope, wrong, and no, it isn't. Actual figures are hard to come by (many go unreported) but the two places where HBV goes on the most are India and Pakistan. That means among Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and the nonreligious.
That's not a function of those countries' governments, and it's not a function of any of those religions or lack-of. It's a function of culture. And it always has been.
This site is nauseatingly slow right now so I'm not going to continue for the moment but I refer you back to post 18 (which has never been refuted or challenged) and note that HBV serves no religious purpose in any religion, because it's simply not an act OF religion but an act of cultural status and mores. IOW it doesn't do anything for the perps religiously; it serves a purpose (as they see it) socially. And I make the distinction because Anthroplogy is a particular area of study/interest of mine.
The attempt by the emotion-mongering gadflies to pin this on Islam (or Hiduism, or Sikhism, or national governments) only serves to take our eye off the ball of the real roots, which have to do with ancient cultural hyperpatriarchy. That's it comes from and that's where the change has to happen. Until it does, its ill effects will continue. In this and too many other ways.
Why do you keep lying about this? Stoning is a punishment that exists in any country that practices Sharia law, such as Iran.
Uh, no. That's absurd.
Where do you get these weird notions? Got a link?
Edit, reading back a post -- I see you do. From that link:
>> "It is one of the most brutal forms of violence perpetrated against women in order to control and punish their sexuality and basic freedoms."
... Stoning is not legal in most Muslim countries and there is no mention of it in the Koran. <<
... Stoning is not legal in most Muslim countries and there is no mention of it in the Koran. <<
--- both of which I've noted throughout. It's a cultural artifact to "protect family status" by brutally controlling women. That's exactly what I meant by hyperpatriarchy. It sucks, it's barbaric, it's subhuman. But it doesn't come from religion.
Continuing:
>> However, in other countries, such as Afghanistan and Iraq, stoning is not legal but tribal leaders, militants and others carry it out extrajudicially. "In Afghanistan, warlords are manipulating religion to terrorise the population for their own political ends. Stoning is one way of doing that," said Shameem, a human rights lawyer who is co-ordinating the Stop Stoning Women campaign. <<
"Extradjudicially" = 'outside the law'. Vigilantes, as I've been noting. And in the latter part of the paragraph, a terrorism device, also illegal, and neither of which is religious.
More:
>> Origins
Stoning has been used as a form of community justice throughout history in various religious and cultural traditions, many pre-dating Islam. .... The practice has been documented among the Ancient Greeks to punish people judged to be prostitutes, adulterers or murderers. It is also mentioned in the Jewish Torah, the first five books of the Bible, and the Talmud. <<
Stoning has been used as a form of community justice throughout history in various religious and cultural traditions, many pre-dating Islam. .... The practice has been documented among the Ancient Greeks to punish people judged to be prostitutes, adulterers or murderers. It is also mentioned in the Jewish Torah, the first five books of the Bible, and the Talmud. <<
That's your own link, confirming what I've been saying all along. Indeed the first time most of us hear about the specific practice of stoning is in the Bible -- "let him who is without sin" etc. And again, that's an event taking place six hundred years before Mohammad even exists, so by the law of linear time he can't possibly have invented it.
The rest of your link reconfirms the focus on obsessive control of women and more recently, stoning as a terrorism device, notably:
>> Many prominent Muslim clerics have spoken in support of a ban on stoning, deeming it un-Islamic and antithetical to the Koran's emphasis on repentance and compassion. Shameem said stoning mostly happened in conflict or post-conflict areas where politicians, warlords and militants exploit people's religious beliefs as they jockey for power. Mali saw its first case last year after Islamist militants took control of the north of the country. It is not clear why, in Bibi's case, the tribal court should have justified stoning as a punishment for owning a mobile phone. Shameem said stoning and the threat of stoning was being used "to control women, constrain their freedoms, and police their sexuality". <<
And note again the term "tribal court". That's an extrajudicial community body, like the
khap panchayats of India* that serve the same purpose. They're not a government body; they're not a religious body. They're a tribal body self-convened to give the illusion of a pseud-court. Not related to either the local government or the local religion.
* from that link:
>>The Khap panchayts frequently deliberate on social issues to attempt to combat social problems like female abortions, alcohol abuse, dowry, rape [15][16][17] and to promote education.[18] specially among girls[19]
The largest Khap in Haryana is the Satrol Khap, which allowed inter-caste marriage in 2014,[20] providing the marriage is not within the same gotra, village, or neighboring villages[21]
...The Supreme Court has declared illegal 'Khap panchayats' which often decree or encourage honour killings or other institutionalised atrocities against boys and girls of different castes and religions who wish to get married or have married.[25]
This is wholly illegal and has to be ruthlessly stamped out. There is nothing honourable in honour killing or other atrocities and, in fact, it is nothing but barbaric and shameful murder. Other atrocities in respect of the personal lives of people committed by brutal, feudal-minded persons deserve harsh punishment. Only this way can we stamp out such acts of barbarism and feudal mentality. Moreover, these acts take the law into their own hands, and amount to kangaroo courts, which are wholly illegal.
— Bench of Justices Markandey Katju and Gyan Sudha Misra.[26]
In his report to the Supreme Court Raju Ramachandaran, Senior Advocate appointed by the Court to assist it in PILs against Khap Panchayats has called for arrest of "self styled" decision makers and proactive action by the police to protect the fundamental rights of the people. It also asked for the recommendations being converted as directions to all States and the Union, till a law is enacted by the Parliament.[27] <<
Again, these khap panchayats are not affiliated with Hinduism nor Sikhism, nor are they sanctioned by or affiliated with their local or federal governments. They're tribal. Read the link if you don't believe me.
These are ancient social constructs that simply do not have a cognate in our culture. I know it would be easier to ascribe them to an avenue we're familiar with like religions but it just isn't the way it works.
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