A question for the anti-abortionists?

[TemplarKormac]

Or better yet, why not provide the women with health care for themselves and their children, paid maternity leave, and higher wages so they can afford to keep and raise their child, if you wish to discourage abortion?

Why not give women good paying jobs, actual jobs, rather than subsidizing them, to keep them barely above the poverty line? Perhaps if our government made the atmosphere more conducive to job creation and career education, perhaps women wouldn't need to abort because they can't afford the baby. But hey, food stamps and welfare checks...and stuff.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Make it easy for women to have and keep their babies and they will.

The solution is simple. I've outlined it. But like the typical leftist you are, you'd much rather ignore it so you can keep hurling the word "misogynist" at me.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Women have been having sex and aborting fetuses since biblical days. You cannot change that behavior.

See... there you go bringing up the Bible again. I said nothing about then not having sex. But the choice doesn't reside with whether to abort or not, it resides with whether or not she gets on the saddle. The baby is the result of her choice. If you don't want to face the prospect of having an abortion, then exercise a little self restraint, think of your health as well as the baby's.

As for leftists, lying is a behavior that I readily admit I cannot change.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It is one of the two strongest biological urges and it's there to ensure the survival of the species.

Ha. I find that statement to be rather...ironic.

How does medical abortion assure the survival of our species? Or does it simply represent the survival of a "choice?"

 

[NYcarbineer]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

If "Bear513 wants to dabble in the justice system he needs a lot more education. First of all you don't "charge" a person with the death penalty. That's up to the judicial system including the D.A., the judge and jury. Abortion has been upheld by the supreme court so it's unlikely that it will "become illegal" but it's important to understand the human gestation period even if the education of the ignorant prog lefties extends not much further than placing a condom on a freaking cucumber. (Dr.) Kermit Gosnell's house of horrors existed because the powerful abortion politics prevented even a basic health check of his clinic. They closed Taco joints in Philadelphia for not following health codes but Dr. Kermit was cutting the throats of (mostly Black) living full term babies that slipped out of the birth canal and nobody knew about it until a pregnant mother didn't come home from her appointment.

If you believe abortion is murder then the woman who has the abortion is a murderer. It's not complicated.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

You used to be a fetus....what are you now?

What should the law against abortion be?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Something few of you probably know:

The penalty for a doctor who performs a partial birth abortion is a possible fine and up to 2 years in prison.

Is that an appropriate penalty for murder?

 

[Dragonlady]

Why not fine the men?

Easy, because according to people like you, the man's opinion and input are not wanted or needed. They have no idea what the woman is going through. That, miss, represents the hypocrisy of your argument.

Once again you make assumptions which are wrong. If the woman decides to have the baby, the father has an obligation to pay child support for that child even if doesn't get to decide whether or not she proceeds with the pregnancy.

Maybe men should face charges for risking a pregnancy they are not prepared to support. The woman didn't get pregnant on her own. Maybe men should learn to keep it in their pants if they don't want to risk a baby.

I'm tired of asshat conservatives criticizing women for having sex and giving men a pass here. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Something few of you probably know:

The penalty for a doctor who performs a partial birth abortion is a possible fine and up to 2 years in prison.

Is that an appropriate penalty for murder?

That penalty is almost on par with animal cruelty

 

[mikegriffith1]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

There's no "pretending." The science of embryology has destroyed the pro-abortion claim that the baby in the womb is just a piece of tissue (FYI, "fetus" is Latin for "baby").

As for penalties, if I were in charge of setting the punishment for the doctor and the mother, I would charge doctors with manslaughter and mothers with assault causing bodily harm, but mothers would be eligible for lesser punishment and even exoneration under the following conditions:

(1) If the mother could provide reasonable evidence that she was pressured or coerced into having the abortion by her family and/or the father (this happens sometimes/frequently) and (2) if it could be determined that the abortion clinic staff lied to the mother about the human status of the baby and failed to tell her about the very real health risks involved with having an abortion (this happens very, very often).

 

[NYcarbineer]

I also don't think that people know that even under Roe v Wade states can make later term abortions the crime of murder if they so chose. Why haven't they?

note: I'll gladly be corrected if I'm not wrong on that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

There's no "pretending." The science of embryology has destroyed the pro-abortion claim that the baby in the womb is just a piece of tissue ("fetus" is Latin for "baby").

As for penalties, if I were in charge of setting the punishment for the doctor and the mother, I would charge doctors with manslaughter and mothers with assault causing bodily harm, but mothers would be eligible for lesser punishment and even exoneration under the following conditions:

(1) If the mother could provide reasonable evidence that she was pressured or coerced into having the abortion by her family and/or the father (this happens sometimes/frequently) and (2) if it could be determined that the abortion clinic staff lied to the mother about the human status of the baby and failed to tell her about the very real health risks involved with having an abortion (this happens very, very often).

Would you charge a mother with assault if she willfully killed her 2 year old?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I also don't think that people know that even under Roe v Wade states can make later term abortions the crime of murder if they so chose. Why haven't they?

note: I'll gladly be corrected if I'm not wrong on that.

I kind of think I am the only one so far on the right that understands your logical thinking on this topic. In the past 30 year's or so debating this, you are the first to bring a "breath of fresh air" argument to the table.

 

[mikegriffith1]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

There's no "pretending." The science of embryology has destroyed the pro-abortion claim that the baby in the womb is just a piece of tissue ("fetus" is Latin for "baby").

As for penalties, if I were in charge of setting the punishment for the doctor and the mother, I would charge doctors with manslaughter and mothers with assault causing bodily harm, but mothers would be eligible for lesser punishment and even exoneration under the following conditions:

(1) If the mother could provide reasonable evidence that she was pressured or coerced into having the abortion by her family and/or the father (this happens sometimes/frequently) and (2) if it could be determined that the abortion clinic staff lied to the mother about the human status of the baby and failed to tell her about the very real health risks involved with having an abortion (this happens very, very often).

Would you charge a mother with assault if she willfully killed her 2 year old?

This immoral sophistry designed to avoid the immoral nature of your position.

As anyone with common sense understands, a mother killing a 2-year-old is not the same as a mother asking a doctor to kill her unborn baby. In the first case she is the one and only perpetrator. In the second case, she is an accomplice--the doctor would be the perpetrator. Many, many killings are pled down to manslaughter.

If the abortion were done after the baby can feel pain, I would raise the charge to second degree murder. If it were done in the final month, I would raise the charge to first degree murder.

Of course, your whole line of argument is disingenuous, since you would not impose any penalty for any abortion, in spite of what now know from science about the unborn baby.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

There's no "pretending." The science of embryology has destroyed the pro-abortion claim that the baby in the womb is just a piece of tissue ("fetus" is Latin for "baby").

As for penalties, if I were in charge of setting the punishment for the doctor and the mother, I would charge doctors with manslaughter and mothers with assault causing bodily harm, but mothers would be eligible for lesser punishment and even exoneration under the following conditions:

(1) If the mother could provide reasonable evidence that she was pressured or coerced into having the abortion by her family and/or the father (this happens sometimes/frequently) and (2) if it could be determined that the abortion clinic staff lied to the mother about the human status of the baby and failed to tell her about the very real health risks involved with having an abortion (this happens very, very often).

Would you charge a mother with assault if she willfully killed her 2 year old?

This immoral sophistry designed to avoid the immoral nature of your position.

As anyone with common sense understands, a mother killing a 2-year-old is not the same as a mother asking a doctor to kill her unborn baby. In the first case she is the one and only perpetrator. In the second case, she is an accomplice--the doctor would be the perpetrator. Many, many killings are pled down to manslaughter.

If the abortion were done after the baby can feel pain, I would raise the charge to second degree murder. If it were done in the final month, I would raise the charge to first degree murder.

So you take issue with the people here that say a fertilized human egg is a person? Argue with them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

There's no "pretending." The science of embryology has destroyed the pro-abortion claim that the baby in the womb is just a piece of tissue ("fetus" is Latin for "baby").

As for penalties, if I were in charge of setting the punishment for the doctor and the mother, I would charge doctors with manslaughter and mothers with assault causing bodily harm, but mothers would be eligible for lesser punishment and even exoneration under the following conditions:

(1) If the mother could provide reasonable evidence that she was pressured or coerced into having the abortion by her family and/or the father (this happens sometimes/frequently) and (2) if it could be determined that the abortion clinic staff lied to the mother about the human status of the baby and failed to tell her about the very real health risks involved with having an abortion (this happens very, very often).

Would you charge a mother with assault if she willfully killed her 2 year old?

This immoral sophistry designed to avoid the immoral nature of your position.

As anyone with common sense understands, a mother killing a 2-year-old is not the same as a mother asking a doctor to kill her unborn baby. In the first case she is the one and only perpetrator. In the second case, she is an accomplice--the doctor would be the perpetrator. Many, many killings are pled down to manslaughter.

If the abortion were done after the baby can feel pain, I would raise the charge to second degree murder. If it were done in the final month, I would raise the charge to first degree murder.

Of course, your whole line of argument is disingenuous, since you would not impose any penalty for any abortion, in spite of what now know from science about the unborn baby.

I'm pretty sure if you hire someone to murder someone, you're as liable as they are.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I also don't think that people know that even under Roe v Wade states can make later term abortions the crime of murder if they so chose. Why haven't they?

note: I'll gladly be corrected if I'm not wrong on that.

I kind of think I am the only one so far on the right that understands your logical thinking on this topic. In the past 30 year's or so debating this, you are the first to bring a "breath of fresh air" argument to the table.

No, plenty of them understand us perfectly. They are reacting as people often react when confronted with a thoroughly indisputable set of facts that wreak havoc on their own position.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I'm pretty sure if you hire someone to murder someone, you're as liable as they are.

I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. Prosecutors take many factors into consideration before they charge in such cases, such as whether the targeted person was harming the person who sought to hire someone to kill them and therefore the attempt at murder for hire was a form of self-defense, whether the person seeking murder for hire had good reason to believe that their target intended to do them bodily harm, etc., etc.

And I'm really sure you're being disingenuous. Tell me: What penalties would you suggest for the doctor and the mother in an abortion, given what we now know from science about unborn babies?

Let me guess: NONE. Not only NONE, but you support unrestricted legalized abortion. So your whole line of argument is deceptive and insincere.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I also don't think that people know that even under Roe v Wade states can make later term abortions the crime of murder if they so chose. Why haven't they?

note: I'll gladly be corrected if I'm not wrong on that.

I kind of think I am the only one so far on the right that understands your logical thinking on this topic. In the past 30 year's or so debating this, you are the first to bring a "breath of fresh air" argument to the table.

No, plenty of them understand us perfectly. They are reacting as people often react when confronted with a thoroughly indisputable set of facts that wreak havoc on their own position.

It's one of the rock and a hard place problems for the 'abortion is murder' people.

1. If they take the logical rational position, which is that if abortion is murder then all women who abort are murderers and should face the appropriate consequences, they have isolated themselves in such a distatsteful position that they are then arguing a hopelessly extreme point.

2. If they take the position that abortion should be illegal but not made the crime of murder for women who abort, then they've conceded that the fetus should not be considered a person. Once they've conceded that then the entire argument against abortion as being the taking of a human life falls apart.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm pretty sure if you hire someone to murder someone, you're as liable as they are.

I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. Prosecutors take many factors into consideration before they charge in such cases, such as whether the targeted person was harming the person who sought to hire someone to kill them and therefore the attempt at murder for hire was a form of self-defense, whether the person seeking murder for hire had good reason to believe that their target intended to do them bodily harm, etc., etc.

And I'm really sure you're being disingenuous. Tell me: What penalties would you suggest for the doctor and the mother in an abortion, given what we now know from science about unborn babies?

Let me guess: NONE. Not only NONE, but you support unrestricted legalized abortion. So your whole line of argument is deceptive and insincere.

We're not talking about extenuating circumstances here.

I don't support unrestricted legal abortion. Don't lie about what I believe. Lie about someone else if you need to lie.