A question for the anti-abortionists?

[Soggy in NOLA]

Almost every anti-abortionist knows someone personally who's had an abortion, as almost all of us do.

You call abortion murder. Would you sign the papers that put that woman you know away for life?

Wow, what circles are you running in? I don't know anyone who has had an abortion...

Do you think abortion is murder?

No, it isn't murder because it is legal. It is however, infanticide.

Should it be murder then? That means women caught taking the morning after pill would go to prison for life..

No, I don't think it should be murder.... I recognize there are times when it is obviously, tragically, necessary. My feelings are that in most instances it is sadly used as an alternative to responsible birth control. That is wrong. But, I also believe it should be dealt with at the state level, not federal. Now with all that being said, I wish both sides would just drop it. It is legal, it will never again be illegal, period. For anyone to fret about it is silly. The left and the right need to move on.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Preventing abortion is not simply providing for the baby but preventing the baby in the first place.

My point exactly. Why even go as far as letting the baby develop? But some women wait at least a few weeks before making the decision, and by that time the baby's already forming inside the womb. I'm not against contraception, I'm against the actual abortions.

 

[FA_Q2]

I also don't think that people know that even under Roe v Wade states can make later term abortions the crime of murder if they so chose. Why haven't they?

note: I'll gladly be corrected if I'm not wrong on that.

I kind of think I am the only one so far on the right that understands your logical thinking on this topic. In the past 30 year's or so debating this, you are the first to bring a "breath of fresh air" argument to the table.

No, plenty of them understand us perfectly. They are reacting as people often react when confronted with a thoroughly indisputable set of facts that wreak havoc on their own position.

It's one of the rock and a hard place problems for the 'abortion is murder' people.

1. If they take the logical rational position, which is that if abortion is murder then all women who abort are murderers and should face the appropriate consequences, they have isolated themselves in such a distatsteful position that they are then arguing a hopelessly extreme point.

2. If they take the position that abortion should be illegal but not made the crime of murder for women who abort, then they've conceded that the fetus should not be considered a person. Once they've conceded that then the entire argument against abortion as being the taking of a human life falls apart.

The second point is false.

Black and white views on reality are almost always bullshit because life is not a black and white experience.

There is a LOT more to this than murder/completely fine.

 

[FA_Q2]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

What the poster said......

Can we just accept that the left is never going to understand biology Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Online
NYcarbineerDiamond Member
The anti-abortionists keep throwing it into the faces of the pro-choicers saying that they are killing innocent human life.

But 99% of those same anti-abortionists cannot bring themselves to call for the appropriate punishment of women who have abortions,

which would be in most cases life in prison.

Why are you people pretending you believe that the fetus is a person

If "Bear513 wants to dabble in the justice system he needs a lot more education. First of all you don't "charge" a person with the death penalty. That's up to the judicial system including the D.A., the judge and jury. Abortion has been upheld by the supreme court so it's unlikely that it will "become illegal" but it's important to understand the human gestation period even if the education of the ignorant prog lefties extends not much further than placing a condom on a freaking cucumber. (Dr.) Kermit Gosnell's house of horrors existed because the powerful abortion politics prevented even a basic health check of his clinic. They closed Taco joints in Philadelphia for not following health codes but Dr. Kermit was cutting the throats of (mostly Black) living full term babies that slipped out of the birth canal and nobody knew about it until a pregnant mother didn't come home from her appointment.

If you believe abortion is murder then the woman who has the abortion is a murderer. It's not complicated.

Yes, it actually is.

There is also the reality of proof and abortion would be almost impossible to prove. A doctor providing the service on the other hand...

 

[FA_Q2]

Why not fine the men?

Easy, because according to people like you, the man's opinion and input are not wanted or needed. They have no idea what the woman is going through. That, miss, represents the hypocrisy of your argument.

Once again you make assumptions which are wrong. If the woman decides to have the baby, the father has an obligation to pay child support for that child even if doesn't get to decide whether or not she proceeds with the pregnancy.

Maybe men should face charges for risking a pregnancy they are not prepared to support. The woman didn't get pregnant on her own. Maybe men should learn to keep it in their pants if they don't want to risk a baby.

I'm tired of asshat conservatives criticizing women for having sex and giving men a pass here. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

And **** you.

No one is giving the father a pass on anything. The father NEVER gets a pass. Instead, he gets fucked with whatever the woman decides is going to happen - period. No say and no out.

That is simply the way it is. Stop whining about the father constantly who is going to be on the hook as long as the mother deems it - we all know that is how it works and is going to continue to be that way as a biological necessity.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I value my existence but the blunt truth is - if I had never been born I would neither know nor care. And yes - I would NEVER want to force my mother or any woman to bear a pregnancy against her will.

So just because you don't care if you had never been born, somehow that means that a woman should have the right to kill her own baby for no valid reason? "Gee, a baby doesn't fit into my life plans right now" is not a valid reason to kill him or her.

Do you think the baby wants to be killed? You would not force any woman to "bear a pregnancy against her will," which means you would not lift a finger to protect the innocent unborn baby from an undeserved, unjust death.

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

NY carbineer brings up a great point in this thread, what would you charge the mom with if abortion some how became illegal, the electric chair? Life in prision, if a fetus is a human being?

Did the mom willfully engage in sexual intercourse, which nature designed her body to do, for no other purpose than to conceive a child?

Because if she did and she sought to avoid responsibility for her behavior, by murdering her own child, then yes, she should be tried on the charge of murder. And where it can be shown that she willfully, with malice of forethought took the life of her own child, then she should suffer the punishment which is established for that dishonorable action.

And what's more, I firmly support the same punishment for those who advocate for the murder of defenseless, innocent children... just as those who publicly advocate for the murder of the post born are punished.

It's not a complex issue... it just seems complex when one focuses upon the obscurant rationalizations and not on the issues and the principles; meaning the laws of nature, that govern such.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I value my existence but the blunt truth is - if I had never been born I would neither know nor care. And yes - I would NEVER want to force my mother or any woman to bear a pregnancy against her will.

So just because you don't care if you had never been born, somehow that means that a woman should have the right to kill her own baby for no valid reason? "Gee, a baby doesn't fit into my life plans right now" is not a valid reason to kill him or her.

Do you think the baby wants to be killed? You would not force any woman to "bear a pregnancy against her will," which means you would not lift a finger to protect the innocent unborn baby from an undeserved, unjust death.

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

LOL! They were literally denying that pre-born babies breath in the womb... They're desperate to remain ignorant of truth. Because in the truth, rests reality and THAT is something they can't find the strength to consider.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I value my existence but the blunt truth is - if I had never been born I would neither know nor care. And yes - I would NEVER want to force my mother or any woman to bear a pregnancy against her will.

So just because you don't care if you had never been born, somehow that means that a woman should have the right to kill her own baby for no valid reason? "Gee, a baby doesn't fit into my life plans right now" is not a valid reason to kill him or her.

Do you think the baby wants to be killed? You would not force any woman to "bear a pregnancy against her will," which means you would not lift a finger to protect the innocent unborn baby from an undeserved, unjust death.

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

Then why are you calling abortion 'assault' instead of 'murder'?

 

[Coyote]

Why not fine the men?

Easy, because according to people like you, the man's opinion and input are not wanted or needed. They have no idea what the woman is going through. That, miss, represents the hypocrisy of your argument.

Once again you make assumptions which are wrong. If the woman decides to have the baby, the father has an obligation to pay child support for that child even if doesn't get to decide whether or not she proceeds with the pregnancy.

Maybe men should face charges for risking a pregnancy they are not prepared to support. The woman didn't get pregnant on her own. Maybe men should learn to keep it in their pants if they don't want to risk a baby.

I'm tired of asshat conservatives criticizing women for having sex and giving men a pass here. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

And **** you.

No one is giving the father a pass on anything. The father NEVER gets a pass. Instead, he gets fucked with whatever the woman decides is going to happen - period. No say and no out.

That is simply the way it is. Stop whining about the father constantly who is going to be on the hook as long as the mother deems it - we all know that is how it works and is going to continue to be that way as a biological necessity.

How many threads have been started about fathers? Do they get called sluts and murderers?

 

[Coyote]

I value my existence but the blunt truth is - if I had never been born I would neither know nor care. And yes - I would NEVER want to force my mother or any woman to bear a pregnancy against her will.

So just because you don't care if you had never been born, somehow that means that a woman should have the right to kill her own baby for no valid reason? "Gee, a baby doesn't fit into my life plans right now" is not a valid reason to kill him or her.

Do you think the baby wants to be killed? You would not force any woman to "bear a pregnancy against her will," which means you would not lift a finger to protect the innocent unborn baby from an undeserved, unjust death.

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

I chose unbiased sources - basic pregnancy info: Your pregnancy week by week BabyCenter

As far as brain waves - there is absolutely no possibility of "brain waves" at 4-5 weeks. There isn't even a brain yet NOR is there a heart - so that is either blatent ignorance or propoganda.

Embryo: About the size of a sesame seed, the embryo is made of three layers of cells that are folded over on each other.

Neural tube: At the fold of the top layer of the embryo is the neural tube, which will develop into the baby's brain, spinal cord, nerves, and backbone.
​

If you define viability in terms of needing external assistance to live than an embryo is certainly not viable - remove it from it's life support system and it dies.

Hint: read and learn

 

[Coyote]

So just because you don't care if you had never been born, somehow that means that a woman should have the right to kill her own baby for no valid reason? "Gee, a baby doesn't fit into my life plans right now" is not a valid reason to kill him or her.

Do you think the baby wants to be killed? You would not force any woman to "bear a pregnancy against her will," which means you would not lift a finger to protect the innocent unborn baby from an undeserved, unjust death.

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

LOL! They were literally denying that pre-born babies breath in the womb... They're desperate to remain ignorant of truth. Because in the truth, rests reality and THAT is something they can't find the strength to consider.

They don't. Case dismissed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

How many threads have been started about fathers? Do they get called sluts and murderers?

They don't get a say so. Although they make the whole thing possible, they're told to **** off. You want to know why we don't make threads about fathers? Because A) they are too busy being deadbeats or B) women are too busy shutting them out of the decision. So, you get upset when people vilify the women, but hey, go right ahead, do the same thing to the men. It's hypocritical, but it's none of my business.

 

[Coyote]

How many threads have been started about fathers? Do they get called sluts and murderers?

They don't get a say so. Although they make the whole thing possible, they're told to **** off. You want to know why we don't make threads about fathers? Because A) they are too busy being deadbeats or B) women are too busy shutting them out of her decision.

Ah. They get a free pass then. Glad that at least is clarified

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ah. They get a free pass then.

There's nothing free about it. Can't make threads about abortion and the rights of the father. No no no, can't have that. If they got a free pass, they'd get an opinion in the matter.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Glad that at least is clarified

Do you like putting words in my mouth? When pro-choicers hijack the debate, the very mention of men in the discussion is a taboo. The women's choice is sacrosanct and beyond anything the man can say or do. What good is making any threads about it? The responses will be all too predictable! No good in wasting the time if men are always told to "sit down and shut up, my body, my choice!"

 

[Coyote]

Glad that at least is clarified

Do you like putting words in my mouth? When pro-choicers hijack the debate, the very mention of men in the discussion is a taboo. The women's choice is sacrosanct and beyond anything the man can say or do. What good is making any threads about it? The responses will be all too predictable! No good in wasting the time if men are always told to "sit down and shut up, my body, my choice!"

Actually, I've already offered up a great leveling alternative - the man has a choice. If the woman doesn't want it, the man can carry it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Actually, I've already offered up a great leveling alternative - the man has a choice. If the woman doesn't want it, the man can carry it.

As scientifically feasible as you think that might be, this is reductio ad absurdum. A puerile response to a cogent argument. Seriously, more snark!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

There are a lot of reasons but it comes down to this: no one has a right to force a woman into an unwanted pregnancy, control her body or make life changing choices for her. If you feel so strongly about it - offer to have the unwanted fetus implanted in you, or start a compaign to force the father to carry it and see how you feel about having someone who neither knows you nor cares take control of our body.

A handful of cells is nothing more than a potential baby - it has no brain, no awareness, no consciousness, no feeling.

You are about 30 years behind the science on this issue, unless you're only talking about abortion done within 1 week of pregnancy.

And, FYI, it's a biological fact that the baby is not the mother's "body." It's not "her body." The baby is a separate body in her body; he or she is not like her kidney or liver or heart.

No, I'm pretty up to date on science.

Week 1 - egg is released
Sex occurs and the sperm goes looking.

At this point - the Morning After Pill can be used to prevent pregnancy (up to 5 days post sex) - however, pro-lifers seem to consider this an abortion so I imagine that you would consider the woman homocidal at this point.

Week 2 - 3 Conception. Sperm penetrates egg and becomes a zygote. One cell. Zygote contains all the genetic information to become a baby. Potential.
It spends a week traveling, becomes a microscopic ball of cells called a Blastocyst, and embeds in the uterus if it's lucky.
75% chance of miscarriage occurs.

This is where IUD controception works - it prevents the Blastocyst from embedding. I suppose she is a serial killer now.

Week 4 - Blastocyst embeds and starts to multiply. It's still just a ball of cells. 30% chance of misscarriage.

Week 5 - it becomes an Embryo. Cells start to differentiate. It doesn't even look remotely human.

Week 7 - arm and leg buds develop, further differentiation, primitive organs, size of a lentil,

33% of abortions take place before this time.

Weeks 8 - organs continue to develop and grow. The embryo is the size of a kidney bean.

At this point if a woman is going to have an abortion, 63 % have done so.
Only 4.8 percent of all abortions occur after 15 weeks.

Brain waves don't begin to appear as intermittent bursts until 20 weeks and aren't consistent and synchronized until 27 weeks. This also means that it can not feel pain until this point.

It's a biological fact that it is not viable and entirely dependent on the mother's body for existence. It does not even have a functioning brain. Brainwaves define the existence of independent life.

LOL! Holy cow, where did you get this nonsense?

I repeat: You are way, way behind the science. Brain waves are measured as early as four to five weeks. The baby has his own blood supply, separate from the mother's and often with a different blood type. He has fingerprints in about six weeks. An older man on a kidney machine technically is not "vilable," since he needs external assistance to live. A baby in the womb is perfectly viable as long as he's not stuck with a needle and poisoned before birth. A baby's heart beat can be detected as early as four or five weeks. Etc., etc., etc. Read and learn:

Fetal Development -- From Conception to birth

Pain of the Unborn National Right to Life

Overview Fetal Development First Trimester Pregnancy.org

Abortion A Human Tragedy and a National Disgrace

LOL! They were literally denying that pre-born babies breath in the womb... They're desperate to remain ignorant of truth. Because in the truth, rests reality and THAT is something they can't find the strength to consider.

They don't. Case dismissed.

Now Reader, its saying that "They" meaning pre-born babies, "don't"; meaning Babies do not breath in utero...

That's false... Babies actually DO breath in utero... they are simply breathing amniotic fluid, instead of air... which is essential to lung development.

Here's a scientist explaining it: (I've posted this for the above would-be 'contributor', several times, she has watched it and because of that, you; the Reader of this board, can know to a reasonable certainty that the would-be 'contributor' is now simply choosing to deceive you.)

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Glad that at least is clarified

Do you like putting words in my mouth? When pro-choicers hijack the debate, the very mention of men in the discussion is a taboo. The women's choice is sacrosanct and beyond anything the man can say or do. What good is making any threads about it? The responses will be all too predictable! No good in wasting the time if men are always told to "sit down and shut up, my body, my choice!"

Actually, I've already offered up a great leveling alternative - the man has a choice. If the woman doesn't want it, the man can carry it.

The woman has a choice and the choice is HERS to make...

She can choose to engage in intercourse, which she fully knows is designed by nature for one purpose and one purpose only... thus when the woman chooses to engage in intercourse, she is CHOOSING to conceive a child and bear the decades of responsibility to raise the child.

Once she's allowed a man into her body, she's made her choice and most of her decisions are made for her, from that point forward.

So, it's a major choice and one that shouldn't be made lightly, and never out of marriage.

And this remains true, no matter how many individuals who exist outside the spirit of God claim otherwise.